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Old 04-21-2004, 02:29 PM   #1
engineerx
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Default Anyone using Perrin Positive Steering Response System

Is anyone with a STi or WRX using the Perrin Positive Steering Response System ? Any noticeable benefits -

I'd like to know if it's worth the install - as part of a suspension mod : swaybars, lower brace.

user opinions preferred ;-)

Thanks for your opinions!
http://www.perrinperformance.com/products/PSRS/PSRS.htm
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Last edited by engineerx; 04-21-2004 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 04-21-2004, 02:44 PM   #2
kaos200
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thats just an anti-lift kit
do a search on that you will find alot
ps, wrong forum
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Old 04-21-2004, 04:05 PM   #3
engineerx
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaos200
thats just an anti-lift kit
do a search on that you will find alot
ps, wrong forum
Well , Perrin claims
[i]The PERRIN™ Positive steering response system (P.S.R.S.) will increase the driavability and performance driving characteristics of your Subaru by preventing squat under hard acceleration and preventing lift under acceleration during cornering. The PERRIN Performance™ P.S.R.S. replaces and relocates rear mount of the the front transverse link (aka front control arm) providing additional caster angle for better turn in and steering response.[i]

Seems like it's related to handling / suspension...

Where should I post it?

Thanks.
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Old 04-21-2004, 07:45 PM   #4
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i think most people are afraid of the perrin kit and sticking with the whiteline. everyone seems to think the sperical bearings are going to be too harsh, no compliance. jeff perrin himself mentioned on clubwrx that the nvh isnt that bad, but i dont think many have tried it out yet.
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by kaos200

ps, wrong forum
Uh,

An anti-lift kit is part of the car's suspension. This is the "Brakes & Suspension" forum. Cut the guy a little slack, eh?

I think abaxter34's comment is right on -- the Perrin's spherical bushings seem like a potential NVH nightmare, especially when the alternative (Whiteline ALK with "regular" or "comfort" bushings) seems proven and generally popular.
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Old 04-23-2004, 06:06 PM   #6
engineerx
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Thanks ... I'm a noob I know ... slowly learning the forums' resources

I did end up finding more info. But very ambivalent / vague at best!

It does seem that the White Lines are the more tried/tested/satisfying
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Old 04-23-2004, 10:46 PM   #7
kaos200
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Quote:
Originally posted by capt.sensible
Uh,

An anti-lift kit is part of the car's suspension. This is the "Brakes & Suspension" forum. Cut the guy a little slack, eh?

I think abaxter34's comment is right on -- the Perrin's spherical bushings seem like a potential NVH nightmare, especially when the alternative (Whiteline ALK with "regular" or "comfort" bushings) seems proven and generally popular.
it wasnt in this forum before, it was moved here.

Last edited by kaos200; 04-25-2004 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 04-24-2004, 01:44 AM   #8
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If I were to buy a new, un-modded Subaru and not counting new tires(STi excluded), an ALK would be included in the first $500 I'd spend on mods...
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Old 04-24-2004, 02:55 AM   #9
Hyper
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does it really make that much difference?
when I put coilovers I didn't feel the front to lift anymore when lunching
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Old 04-24-2004, 02:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hyper
does it really make that much difference?
when I put coilovers I didn't feel the front to lift anymore when lunching
Well with this on the car:

SSR Comps with 225/45-17 Kumho MX's
KYB AGX struts
RS*R Down springs
Cusco v2 lower arm brace
Noltec HD front end links
Noltec camber/caster adj. front strut tops
Noltec adj. rear lateral links
STi group N rear strut tops
STi replica FSTB
Whiteline rear camber bolts
Whiteline adj. RSTB
Whiteline steering rack bushes
Whiteline sport(slotted bush) ALK
Whiteline 20-24mm adj. RSB
Whiteline rear HD endlinks
Whiteline rear subframe lock bolts
Whiteline rear dif. outrigger bushes
HD RSB mounts
Performance alignment

And maybe a couple more I'm forgetting....

YES...it does
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Old 04-24-2004, 06:42 PM   #11
engineerx
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Well .. seems that an ALK is in order, I got the Cusco saybars, V2 Brace & strut braces. I want to reduce the understeer to a lesser degree. Just went to the track the other day for the 1st time and noticed a good amount of understeer.

Good info - thank you!
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Old 04-25-2004, 04:37 AM   #12
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im def going perrin, it is going to be very similar to the ALK race bushing, and the stiffer, the better.. pillowball > rubber


go get hte perrin, u wont be disappointed.
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Old 05-08-2004, 02:01 AM   #13
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I just installed the PSRS kit and I am really happy with the difference it makes in front end steering response. The steering is more accurate and there is a direct feel of communication of what is going on when driving aggressively. Gone is the slow wandering feel. This is an area that the STi lacked in. Front end communication. The car now steers alot like the EVO in high speed turns. but there is a down side to this all and that is the popping noise on acceleration, braking and slow speed turns. But if you enjoy spirited driving this is a must do upgrade with this car. I am going to try to isolate what part of the PSRS system is making the noise, my first remedy is to utilize some polyurethane bushings on all the spacers to see if this cures the noise.
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Old 05-08-2004, 02:16 AM   #14
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Yeah, that's about right.

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Umm yeah ... actually "anti-lift kit" is just another way to say "caster kit" -- in other words, ALK has everything to do with steering so I support the theory that this is just another ALK.

I'm not a big fan of ALK's though. On the old (GC/GM/GF) chassis lift was a problem if you had a turbo motor, but they've specifically fixed that problem on the bugeyes and up. Putting the caster out of the normal spec range just isn't worth the problems to me in terms of wear on the struts and bushings and bearings. Having driven both old and new cars with and without ALK, I can't say I see a big difference on the newer cars, although it's definitely noticeable on the older ones with 200+ hp.

Just my $0.02. YMMV.
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Old 07-02-2004, 01:40 AM   #15
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News PSRS Goes Bang!

Yes, the popping, banging, clunking, however you want to describe it - I have had a problem with the Perrin P.S.R.S. (PSRS) that I thought was solved but alas has returned. Here is something to think about when considering this part...

I installed the PSRS on my 1999 GF8. 2.2, no engine mods (well under 200 hp), and I kept the OEM rubber front bushings in the A-arms. The PSRS made a considerable difference on my twisty, mountain road commute every day. I loved it.

Then a banging started to occur under moderate braking, and hard acceleration in the right-front corner. This started about two months after the installation, and continued, getting quite loud after a while.

After pulling the units from the car, I noticed that the bearing in the right unit was actually moving inside the housing bore, where the bearing is cold press-fit upon assembly. It would bang to the front extreme under accelleration, then bang back into its "proper" position under braking (approximately .25-inch of travel total.) The problem never occurred on the left (driver) side.

I contacted Jeff Perrin and emailed him extensive photos of the parts. I suggested a groove be cut in the housing bore with the CNC machine to accommodate a snap-ring, and Jeff made that change to the design of the part just over a month ago. This snap-ring is intended to keep the bearing in its proper position within the housing bore.

According to Jeff, the tolerances of some of the bearings are a little on the small side, thus the slippage problem. His solution now is to apply Loktite to the housing bore and bearing upon assembly, then add the snap-ring in the groove for added security.

After about three weeks, I got my modified, original left-side unit and a new right-side unit back from Jeff, re-installed the parts, and got back on the road. It has been just about a month now, and everything has been fine, until today. When having to make a sudden stop, I got the bang again, not as loud as it used to be, but definitely the same sound, and I can repeat it on demand.

I got the car back up in the air this evening, and pulled the nuts from the A-arm studs, added Loktite and torqued them back down on both sides. Test drive, and no difference, still got the bang. This leads me to believe that the Loktite applied inside the housing bore during assembly has released, and the bearing is once again moving inside the bore, just not as much. That is what it sounds like in comparison to the "old" bang.

Guess I'm gonna have to call Jeff again and see if the snap-ring is installed right up against the bearing or not.

I'll report back what my findings are.

Cheers,
chrx
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Old 07-02-2004, 01:37 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by chrx

Then a banging started to occur under moderate braking, and hard acceleration in the right-front corner. This started about two months after the installation, and continued, getting quite loud after a while.

After pulling the units from the car, I noticed that the bearing in the right unit was actually moving inside the housing bore, where the bearing is cold press-fit upon assembly. It would bang to the front extreme under accelleration, then bang back into its "proper" position under braking (approximately .25-inch of travel total.) The problem never occurred on the left (driver) side.

Cheers,
chrx

hmmmmmm?
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Old 07-02-2004, 02:23 PM   #17
chrx
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Default Correction & Illustration...

First a correction: I mistakenly stated .25-inch travel within the bore. It was actually .125-inch.

Here are photos of this, as I sent them to Jeff Perrin. Both showing the passenger side unit...

Shows the actual thrust of the bearing within the housing bore. Lightly-colored area within the bore is road dust, and the dark ring below it (clean area), just above the bearing is the area of travel of the bearing.


Shows the exterior of the unit, where the rear spacer interfered with the housing when the bearing was pulled forward, out of position.


I noticed the other thread on this topic this morning at: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=570452

I'll have to read that all the way through before I go any further here.

chrx
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