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Old 05-08-2000, 07:27 AM   #1
Rajah
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Angry Auto-x: So I'm tired of the Civic Si cheating...

He's running R-compound tires in ST class, and is always approx. 1 sec faster than me. I've finally decided to cheat with him, just to beat him. I need to know which DOT rated R-compund tires are the best for auto-x! I'm running stock wheels (have 2 sets). The auto-x is about 40 miles away, so these tires must be able to get me there, race, and get me home without wearing bald!

Thanks a ton!
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Old 05-08-2000, 07:41 AM   #2
kelley nelson
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Is it an SCCA sanctioned event? I would just complain to the officials. Don't feel bad about it; rules are rules.

If he is running in STS he needs to get some STS-legal tires on there. Buying your own set will just mean you will need to stop using them when someone else finally successfully complains.
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Old 05-08-2000, 07:46 AM   #3
Rajah
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Wink

Yeah, I think you're right. I'm just a little annoyed. I've looked at competition tires via Tire Rack, and found none that would fit my car anyway. I think I'll purchase some Michelin Pilot Sports in a 215/45R16 for auto-x use only (too much $$ for every day use ), and Bridgestone RE730's for daily driving.

Thanks!
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Old 05-08-2000, 07:56 AM   #4
Pilot
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What's up with that? He should be running in STR. Like these guys said just tell the officials.
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Old 05-08-2000, 07:59 AM   #5
8Complex

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Yeah, definetly just complain. I'd be pissed if someone was doing that in my class (which I shoulda checked for with those other cars that beat me yesterday... the top guy was up 3 seconds on me and I was hauling a**!).
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Old 05-08-2000, 08:10 AM   #6
Rajah
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Wink

Yeah, well I'm not really the kind of guy who tells on everyone. I might ask an official if we're allowed R-compound tires in ST class (while standing next to the Si, of course ).

I should be in STS class as it is, with the mods I have - I haven't gotten around to having my magnetic numbers changed.
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Old 05-08-2000, 08:15 AM   #7
kelley nelson
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Rajah, if you are getting them for autocross, I would just get the MXX3. The treadwear number is lower, and the tread design looks to be a better choice.

I have two events on my MXX3 now and have been very happy with them. I got the size you mentioned.
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Old 05-08-2000, 08:19 AM   #8
Rajah
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Question

I was considering the MXX3's, but was leaning more towards the Pilot Sports for supposedly better wet traction. How are the MXX3's in the wet?

Thanks
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Old 05-08-2000, 08:37 AM   #9
kelley nelson
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I haven't run them in the wet, but I hear they are soso. The majority of events in the northeast are held during dry, warm weather.

That, and the fact that the car already has an inherrent advantage when it rains made me choose the dry-biased tire.

In other words, why compromise performance in the most common scenario (dry) when you are better able to deal with that compromise than anyone else when the uncommon scenario happens (wet).
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Old 05-08-2000, 08:40 AM   #10
Rajah
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Smile

You make a good point. I'll pick up a set of MXX3's in a few months when I have a garage

What tires do you run on the street? I want something that'll grip well in the wet and dry. Also, I'd like them to work OK in the snow - I don't want another set of all-seasons.
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Old 05-08-2000, 08:47 AM   #11
kelley nelson
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I am currently driving a very beaten set of Toyo T1-plus. They are very ready to be changed out.

The Dunlop SP9000 has been recommended to me, and I like what I have read about them. I also really enjoyed my Toyos and am looking at the T1-s.

I don't think either of them will be very good winter tires, unfortunately.
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Old 05-08-2000, 09:16 AM   #12
rrsettgast
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"I also really enjoyed my Toyos and am looking at the T1-s."

Not very good track tires. They Overheat real easy. Excellent street tire though.

Randy
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Old 05-08-2000, 09:51 AM   #13
Pilot
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If you don't wan't all seasons then you have no choice but to buy snows for the winter.

For street driving my Favorites have been the Bridgestone SO-2 PPs and the Yoko AVS Sports. Also I understand that the Michelin Pilot Sport (I haven't driven them yet) is one of the very best for street use, but stay with the Pilot SX MXX3 for AutoX.

The AVS Sport and the Pilot SX MXX3 are the best I have used for autox on a street tire. The Pilot SX isn't very good in the rain once it gets to half tread depth. The SO-2 PP are good in the rain for most of the tread depth, and I beleive the AVS Sport will be as well, but I haven't driven them all worn down yet, and TToversteer seems reluctant to burn these off as fast as the RE-92s, so I will have to wait for a determination on that.

Anyway if you can only have one set of tires I think the AVS Sport has the best of both street and track and doesn't give up ground in either venue.

For snows I reccomend only two, Michelin Pilot Alpin, and Pirelli Winter 210 Assimetrico. Both are H speed rated and both are relatively long lasting IF you don't use them in the warm wether. Dry road doesn't wear them out as long as it is cold.( that's why they are winter tires ) They are also very good in the snow. I specifially dissuade people from using Blizzaks as they are terrible on dry roads and wear out very quickly, also their poor weather capability is only marginally better than the other two and is not offset by the unbleiveably high wear and poor dry road handliing.
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Old 05-08-2000, 10:17 AM   #14
Rajah
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Cool

Thanks for the tips, Pilot. I can't use the AVS Sport or S02-PP's (need 205/50R16 or 215/45R16). As for snow tires, what's wrong with using a high performance summer tire? I mean, our cars are AWD after all. Do you think the RE730's would be ok on the snow?

I have 2 sets of stock wheels, and am planning on wrapping MXX3's on one set for auto-x only, and RE730's on the other for street. Sound like a good idea to you guys?

Thanks again!
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Old 05-08-2000, 10:31 AM   #15
Pilot
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Summer tires are terrible in the snow for two reasons.

1) They are formulated to be usefeul at warmer temps (above 35-40 degrees) this means that as teh tires get colder the rubber vecomes very hard, like rock and loses it's adhesion.

Hard rubber = no adhesion = no grip = off the road

2)Summer tires do not have enough biting edges to be usefull in snow where traction is determined by little biting edges (tread sipes).

no biting edges = no traction = poor braking = rear end collision or understeering off the road.

For me it is a safety issue, I drove the RE-92s through one snowstorm. That was all I neede to go buy foru snows. AWD is worthless without proper tires. (I learned that in my Audi Quattro, thankfully I didn't hit anything wth it)

Case in point back when all I had was a 944 Turbo I had four snows and my mother's Audi 100 Q had four all seasons, my Porsche was better in the snow because of the snows than the Audi was with the all seasons and the AWD.

Now if you run a Subaru on summer tires in the snow it will be even worse than that.

"I have 2 sets of stock wheels, and am planning on wrapping MXX3's on one set for auto-x only, and RE730's on the other for street. Sound like a good idea to you guys?"
-Rajah

Sounds great if you either:
swap the summer or race tires for snows during the winter or buy a third set of wheels for snow tires.


Anyway don't think about them as snow tires, think about them as temerature use tires. Race tires for Extreme heat, summer tires for medium heat and winter tires for the cold.
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Old 05-08-2000, 10:36 AM   #16
Rajah
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Exclamation

I figured that's what you were going to say!

Maybe I'll keep my Toyo Proxes FZ4's on for all-season street driving, and use the MXX3's for auto-x only. How many wheels do you think I want to buy? I think two sets of wheels is enough for anyone It's a shame that I can't mount tires myself!
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Old 05-08-2000, 02:03 PM   #17
Travis R
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Talking

Hey, you think roommates are bad, wait till you have a WIFE!
ST is pretty unpopulated in our club. No one in STS and only one guy in STR. That's why I've stayed in CSP. I would have no trouble mopping the floor with the guy in STR ('90 accord with an automatic). But I'm up to my neck in Miatas in CSP. I'll run STR at the divisional events though.
We are able to fit everything in the car for a day at the races with little trouble. Four 15" rims (two in the trunk, two in the back seat [in bags of course]), two folding chairs, two full face helmets, an ice chest, a rolling hydraulic floor jack, and a torque wrench. It's a little rough on the lower back getting the tires in and out of the back seat, but at least my wife has started helping swap the tires. With the floor jack you can change front and back tires at the same time.
Travis
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Old 05-08-2000, 02:17 PM   #18
Bassem
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You should ask them to move him into CSP, that's fair. They put him in ST because he's probly the only STR car out there in the pack.

I've run my last 2 in csp even though I only have an exhaust and intake on my M3 and have finished both times 4th, both times on street tires. I wish they put me in AS for God's sake, as the exhaust and intake are really only effective at high speeds anyway, and that's where the stock car belongs!!!!

Bassem
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Old 05-09-2000, 12:41 AM   #19
Travis R
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Here's a question no one has asked yet. Why bother with street tires at all? Unless there is a particular reason you want to stay in STS. I thought the only reason they had STS is so people could just show up and run their street tires. STR is a lot more fun, and changing tires at the race makes you look cool. And you can buy a set of race tires for less than the street tires your looking at. MXX3 are $185 from the tire rack, where as BFG G-force R1s are $150. And since you are in ST you could go to a 15" wheel and have better acceleration AND cheaper tires. Kumho 205/50/15 are $110. I know, you already have a second set of 16" rims. I'm just throwing another idea out there for you.
Good luck

Travis
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Old 05-09-2000, 12:44 AM   #20
ColinL
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The reason for me Travis is that STS is huge and lots of competition and STR is non-existent.

Frankly I don't understand STR. Just go into the Street Prepared classes, except for the fact that the RS is in CSP by a catch-all.

[This message has been edited by ColinL (edited May 08, 2000).]
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Old 05-09-2000, 12:48 AM   #21
efoo
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Travis, I can give you two very good reasons for not buying R-rated tires:

(1) Roommates who don't quite understand why they have to live with eight(!) tires in the living room (winter and race, then there's the 4 summer tires already on my car). They just don't get it. And it's hard to cover them under blankets forever - they eventually find out.

(2) Unless you get a trailer or have a friend drive his car with you, taking 4 tires in an Impreza RS is an interesting exercise if you ask me...

I may well go this route anyway if I get serious enough about auto-x or road racing. But until then, I just can't justify it cost/convenience wise.

-Edwin
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Old 05-09-2000, 12:51 AM   #22
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When I carry 4 wheels/tires in my car, i just pull out the backseat (goes right out the door in my sedan) & they fit fine back there. I've done this countless times, & I think the most I've ever had in my RS were 4 wheels/tires & 1 loose RE92 in my backseat, 4 Honda 15" rims & one RS catback in the trunk, & a box of stuff in the front seat.

,
~G
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Old 05-09-2000, 12:53 AM   #23
Rajah
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Exclamation

Travis, thanks for the input, but as you already know, I have two sets of 16" stock wheels. No one makes the appropriate size for my car/suspension/wheel setup. I'll use the best street tire I can fit (MXX3)!

Colin, I completely agree with you. The officials are always saying "STR? Oh, forgot about you guys"
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Old 05-09-2000, 12:54 AM   #24
RidinLow
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Either that or the time where I had 2 loose RS rims, 2 mounted RE92s, 4 Yoko Nexuses, 2 pieces of luggage, & a box of stuff.

Almost to my 1000th post,
~G
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Old 05-09-2000, 12:58 AM   #25
Rajah
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Wink

Well, if I can drive down to the auto-x with MXX3's already on, all the better. I guess in an ideal world, I would have a set of 15" wheels w/ competition tires additionally to my other 2 sets of 16" wheels. Summer tire, winter tire, and R compound. I'm not planning on spending THAT much money for tires/wheels anytime soon. There are other things that take priority - harness, seats, etc.
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