Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 2, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-22-2004, 01:11 AM   #1
zzyzx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 815
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2013 Boss 302 White
2000 2.5 RS Coupe Silver

Default STi bound for BSP? (June Fastrack)

Ron Bauer posted this to SCCA Forums:

Quote:
already sent this to Jeff separately, but for those that don't actual click on the link for the June Fastrack, here is the full wording for the proposal.

In the interest of full disclosure of what's actually written in there.....

"The 12 month period provided by Section 3.2 for expedient reclassification of a newly-listed model is about to expire for the Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII, currently listed in ESP. In order to retain the option to re-class this car (and the very similar WRX STi) for 2005, while still following the rules process, the SEB is publishing the following class change proposal:

Item 1) Effective 1/1/2005, move the following cars from ESP to BSP: Mitsubishi Lancer Evo VIII, Subaru WRX STi"

I'm only adding this so that people don't assume that the cars WILL be moved. I'm not saying they won't, but this proposal is to allow the SEB more time to evaluate these cars to be sure they are classed appropriately.

Ron
- Steve
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
zzyzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 06:54 AM   #2
ellisnc
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 4229
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Dublin, OH, USA
Vehicle:
2003 S2000
Did someone say track day

Default

Pony car pressure's getting to the SEB
ellisnc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 07:40 AM   #3
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Heh. One year champions.

--kC
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 08:15 AM   #4
Orion
Got the F out
Moderator
 
Member#: 4797
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: central ohio
Vehicle:
01 01 RS, 00 RS
2008 WRB FSXT 5mt

Default

Boo!!!

1) Why the heck are the Evo and STi attached at the hip?

2) Do they not realize the potentially super competitive class once the 05 Mustang arrives???? Now it will be nothing but another one make class.

I can't believe what a joke classing has become.
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 08:36 AM   #5
trojan9x
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3169
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Effort, PA
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS: Holbert
Memorial Winner 2003

Default

the STi and EVO are way too dominant in ESP. I mean think of this:

Both cars are classed in AS which has a PAX of .828

two popular places for it now are STU and ESP. Now, this is where it gets good. BOTH of these classes have a SOFTER PAX than AS? Make sense? No, not one bit.

STU PAX is .827
ESP PAX is even softer at .824 (which allows the most modifications of the 3 classes )

I'm glad that they are finally going to put them in an appropriate class.
trojan9x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 08:58 AM   #6
ConeMasher
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2135
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Chicagoland, IL, USA
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
Silver

Default

The STU pax is theoretical....
and intentionally conservative, due to lack of accurate data.

The STi is also generally considered an underdog in AS (except in the rain or on a less grippy surface).

Realize that the PAX is based on the best driver in the best car in class. As the STi is not the best AS car, you can't really compare the AS index to the ESP index.... other than the fact that the STi is more competitive in ESP than in AS. And as the Evo and STi didn't compete in ESP last year, they aren't responsible in setting the index time.

But anyway, the same argument about AS versus ESP index could just as easily be be used to justify a move from AS to BS, as from ESP to BSP.

Specifically regarding the STi's classing in ESP... that remains to be decided. They're just hedging their bets at this point, as the 12-month timer was due to expire. They had to put something on the table.

-- Gary
ConeMasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 09:23 AM   #7
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by ConeMasher

Specifically regarding the STi's classing in ESP... that remains to be decided. They're just hedging their bets at this point, as the 12-month timer was due to expire. They had to put something on the table.

-- Gary
Yep. The EVO was out in May of 2003. There's not enough data right now to move them. But if the results show this year that they should be moved, they probably will.

I agree that it's sad that ESP is looking like a 'one trick pony'.

I fell like saying to those guys... 'you bought the wrong car for the class' like they enjoy saying about DSMs and other, no offense, bottom feeders that will never rise to the top on a national level. Now that the tides may have turned, they don't like the idea of having to buy a new car to keep up.

The coin flips, they complain.

--kC
KC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 09:38 AM   #8
MNbiker
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 18148
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Vehicle:
'08 WRX
Dark Gray

Default

Personally, I hope the '05 Mustang turns out to be an overdog for FS & ESP. It would be pretty amusing to watch the ponycar crowd's reaction....

-Steve
MNbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 10:19 AM   #9
trojan9x
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3169
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Effort, PA
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS: Holbert
Memorial Winner 2003

Default

Are we going to keep moving the cars around until they find a place where they are going to win? Look at the WRX in DS. It's hardly a top contender yet it still remains in that class. Should we move it to GS so that it can be a class winner? No. I feel the STi is in the same boat just in AS. Will it be more competitive in BS? Of coarse, any car that goes to a class with softer PAX will. But how often are you going to move a car until you realize that it's either a middle of the pack runner or a top dog in a class.

I think it's too early for it to tell if it's going to remain in AS or not, but it is very easy to see that it is a dominant car in ESP. (as well as the EVO)

Tom

Quote:
Originally posted by ConeMasher
The STU pax is theoretical....
and intentionally conservative, due to lack of accurate data.

The STi is also generally considered an underdog in AS (except in the rain or on a less grippy surface).

Realize that the PAX is based on the best driver in the best car in class. As the STi is not the best AS car, you can't really compare the AS index to the ESP index.... other than the fact that the STi is more competitive in ESP than in AS. And as the Evo and STi didn't compete in ESP last year, they aren't responsible in setting the index time.

But anyway, the same argument about AS versus ESP index could just as easily be be used to justify a move from AS to BS, as from ESP to BSP.

Specifically regarding the STi's classing in ESP... that remains to be decided. They're just hedging their bets at this point, as the 12-month timer was due to expire. They had to put something on the table.

-- Gary
trojan9x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 10:59 AM   #10
jmott
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6713
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston TX USA
Vehicle:
2007 Prius
brown

Default

its easy to see that it is dominant in ESP?

what national events has it won and were any top fbodies there?


Quote:
Originally posted by trojan9x
Are we going to keep moving the cars around until they find a place where they are going to win? Look at the WRX in DS. It's hardly a top contender yet it still remains in that class. Should we move it to GS so that it can be a class winner? No. I feel the STi is in the same boat just in AS. Will it be more competitive in BS? Of coarse, any car that goes to a class with softer PAX will. But how often are you going to move a car until you realize that it's either a middle of the pack runner or a top dog in a class.

I think it's too early for it to tell if it's going to remain in AS or not, but it is very easy to see that it is a dominant car in ESP. (as well as the EVO)

Tom
jmott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 11:19 AM   #11
Orion
Got the F out
Moderator
 
Member#: 4797
Join Date: Mar 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: central ohio
Vehicle:
01 01 RS, 00 RS
2008 WRB FSXT 5mt

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by trojan9x
the STi and EVO are way too dominant in ESP. I mean think of this:

I'd love to see the Div, Tour, or Pro results that back that claim.
Orion is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 11:27 AM   #12
Watkinsm3
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 51740
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: On an autox course in PA
Vehicle:
2004 STi A-Stock #24
Same as my Coffee : Black

Default

Maybe we'll see in DC... I have to talk Mike Johnson again but last I spoke with him he was considering running my A-Stock STi in ESP.

-Matt
Watkinsm3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 12:09 PM   #13
trojan9x
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3169
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Effort, PA
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS: Holbert
Memorial Winner 2003

Default

Ok, maybe WAY is an overstatement, but compare it to say a ESP WRX. How could a car that starts with 50 less HP compete?
trojan9x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 12:17 PM   #14
zzyzx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 815
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Florida
Vehicle:
2013 Boss 302 White
2000 2.5 RS Coupe Silver

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by trojan9x
Ok, maybe WAY is an overstatement, but compare it to say a ESP WRX. How could a car that starts with 50 less HP compete?
Nobody was talking about the WRX. If you take issue with where the WRX is classed, that's another topic altogether.

- Steve
zzyzx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 12:35 PM   #15
jmott
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6713
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston TX USA
Vehicle:
2007 Prius
brown

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by trojan9x
Ok, maybe WAY is an overstatement, but compare it to say a ESP WRX. How could a car that starts with 50 less HP compete?
huh?

the fbodies in ESP are rated at 300hp stock, but really have more like 350hp stock.


not to mention the STI loses about 20-40hp to the wheels due to all wheel drive.
jmott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 01:56 PM   #16
afpdl
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26361
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Sugar Land (Houston), Tx
Vehicle:
My shenanigans are
cheeky and fun

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by jmott
huh?

the fbodies in ESP are rated at 300hp stock, but really have more like 350hp stock.


not to mention the STI loses about 20-40hp to the wheels due to all wheel drive.
Yet they still complain that I have awd when we were all geting killed by a mustang
afpdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 02:18 PM   #17
jmott
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6713
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston TX USA
Vehicle:
2007 Prius
brown

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by afpdl
Yet they still complain that I have awd when we were all geting killed by a mustang
if I were them what id complain about is your 300pound weight advantage and multilink rear suspension =)
the AWD is no big advantage on huge tires.
jmott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 02:20 PM   #18
afpdl
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26361
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Sugar Land (Houston), Tx
Vehicle:
My shenanigans are
cheeky and fun

Default

They cant complain about the rear suspension since they can have a double wishbone rear. Well at least the mustang drivers can.

They did complain about the weight too. One actually said he didnt think it was a mustang course except for the fact that a mustang was a sec. in front of the next fastest car.
afpdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 04:24 PM   #19
trojan9x
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3169
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Effort, PA
Vehicle:
2001 2.5 RS: Holbert
Memorial Winner 2003

Default

Ok, I'm was talking about the WRX, not STi.... so that would mean they are about 100hp to the disadvantage then?

Quote:
Originally posted by jmott
huh?

the fbodies in ESP are rated at 300hp stock, but really have more like 350hp stock.


not to mention the STI loses about 20-40hp to the wheels due to all wheel drive.
trojan9x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 04:27 PM   #20
afpdl
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26361
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Sugar Land (Houston), Tx
Vehicle:
My shenanigans are
cheeky and fun

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by trojan9x
Ok, I'm was talking about the WRX, not STi.... so that would mean they are about 100hp to the disadvantage then?
If the sti stays in esp it will end up in the same line as the wrx so it wont have any disadvantages the sti doesnt have.

I dont see what the car being in AS has to do with it being an overdog for ESP there are 2 other AS cars in ESP that no one is complaining about. And weather or not a wrx is competitive in ESP should also have no bearing on the classing decision.
afpdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 04:34 PM   #21
MNbiker
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 18148
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Vehicle:
'08 WRX
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by afpdl
If the sti stays in esp it will end up in the same line as the wrx so it wont have any disadvantages the sti doesnt have.
Wrong. THE SPAC specifically indicated the STi will be on a different line than the WRX. Here's a direct quote from the June 2004 FasTrack:

"Subaru WRX STi ESP (separate line from existing WRX listing)"


-Steve
MNbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 04:38 PM   #22
afpdl
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26361
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Sugar Land (Houston), Tx
Vehicle:
My shenanigans are
cheeky and fun

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by MNbiker
Wrong. THE SPAC specifically indicated the STi will be on a different line than the WRX. Here's a direct quote from the June 2004 FasTrack:

"Subaru WRX STi ESP (separate line from existing WRX listing)"


-Steve
There is only one reason for that and its because the STi is under review. They are not going to put it in the same line and then move it next year. That potentially leaves alot of wrx owners with cars ud/bd up to esp are now suddenly SM cars and the scca doesnt want that happening.

If the STi stays in ESP they will move them to the same line.
afpdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 05:22 PM   #23
MNbiker
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 18148
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Vehicle:
'08 WRX
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by afpdl
If the STi stays in ESP they will move them to the same line.
Really???? I didn't know you were on the SPAC!

There are plenty of examples one could point to in support of putting the WRX & STi on the same line OR different lines. There is no set policy. (Personally, I'd love to see the WRX & STi on the same line, as it would allow me to build the STi wagon I want.

-Steve

Last edited by MNbiker; 04-23-2004 at 01:22 AM.
MNbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 06:31 PM   #24
afpdl
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 26361
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Sugar Land (Houston), Tx
Vehicle:
My shenanigans are
cheeky and fun

Default

IIRC they were moved to different lines the same month the sti and evo were put up for review.

If the car were classed in ESP for good I cant see any reason not to put them on the same line. The only advantage you could get by ud/bd a wrx is save 100lbs from the tranny and having a longer 2nd gear.

If they leave the sti in ESP for good and dont move them to the same line then you can tell me Im wrong
afpdl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2004, 09:52 PM   #25
Akirasoft
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2973
Join Date: Nov 2000
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Wonder Lake, IL
Vehicle:
2011 GT500 SVTPP
Black

Default

what are the typical contenders in BSP?
Akirasoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
STi better for STU or BSP FtW_STi Motorsports 43 04-20-2007 10:11 AM
Does the UNABOMBER Sexy Rear End qualify for BSP? Kurokaze Motorsports 6 04-16-2007 01:56 PM
Bound for Japan, anyone in Chiba or Tokyo? OneArmedScissor General Community 7 01-07-2006 08:19 AM
Ok, this is just friggin weird. I'm bound for bad luck! chris619 Off-Topic 46 03-15-2005 03:22 PM
June STi up for grabs (silver) bcristea STi Forum Archive 0 05-14-2003 10:15 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.