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Old 05-01-2004, 04:55 PM   #1
legacy2003
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Default costs of a 2.2 rebuild/upgraded internals?

hi!

i have a 95 legacy with 2.2 in bad need of a rebuild. how much would this cost assuming that i'm not going to be doing it myself. also, i would really like to upgrade a lot of the internals of the motor. right now its around 135 hp stock with intake, and i was wondering what internals would help me to bump up to around 210 whp assuming i do all the bolt ons (ie intake, exhaust, header, pulley kit). i don't want to do forced induction or nitrous. also, how much might it be to convert the transmission over to 5 speed? i was looking at cobb's cams for 2.5, will they fit 2.2? it doesn't seem that there are a whole lot of internal upgrades for 2.2. can someone point me in the right direction? thanks guys.

-mike
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Old 05-01-2004, 08:21 PM   #2
1 Lucky Texan
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210 is probably too ambitious. Check MRT - I think they (or some other Aussies) have stronger internals and cams and maybe heads available. Also, there was a sandrail sight that even had a way to close the deck but that likely is only necessary if you plan to turbo.
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Old 05-01-2004, 10:38 PM   #3
legacy2003
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damn... i guess i'll give it a look. anyone else have any words on this?

-mike
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Old 05-02-2004, 01:59 AM   #4
GTBGUY
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legacy2003 - If you've got to rip the motor out anyways, you might as well bore & stroke it out to a 2.5L set-up. Or you can just swap in a built 2.5L DOHC motor.
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Old 05-02-2004, 03:51 AM   #5
legacy2003
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well if i were to bore it out, would it then become an ej25?
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Old 05-02-2004, 10:43 AM   #6
linsavy
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For the money you would spend, it would likely be a lot easier and cheaper to swap a USDM 2.0 turbo.
Otherwise a 2.5l DOHC with a few bolt ons would be a better way to go. The DOHC should go in without much wiring changes, see the conversions forum.
There is not much support for modding the 2.2l. It would also likely be cheaper to just buy a 2.2l with low mileage and swap it in. They are for sale often as swap leftovers.
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Old 05-02-2004, 11:16 AM   #7
JonofScio
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Okay, this post might turn out to be long.

The stock EJ22 motor in the second gen legacy puts out 135hp.
Here's what you can do to it without touching the internals.

*intake - by removing the snorkel (anti-rice filter) and opening up the bottom of the airbox (cheaper method of intake work) OR a Long ram or short ram setup, you will open up some torque in the bottom end and just a little more power in the top.

*oil - run good oil. this is always important in any car.

*lightened components - I did the math. the 1.2lb crank pulley from perrin (not underdrive) with the exedy lightened flywheel, would give you an extra 17hp at the block. Also, lightened mechanical components help to put more power to the wheels.

*catalytic converters - it is rumored by some in this area that by just putting straight pipe in place of your cats (you should have TWO) and fooling the ECU to run normally, that you gain 37hp at the flywheel. I don't know if this is true or not, but you definately would gain some power. Mechanical CEL fix from rallitek works for the second o2 sensor.

*exhaust - equal length or not, headers and a cat-back system will put a little more power in your engine, plus make it sound much better. +9.4 hp and +12.7 ft/lbs for the cobb headers. Borla+random tech cat averaged +5.5hp and +6.9 ft/lbs.

*electrical - if your car is MAF (it is) put in a latest MAF sensor you can get. There are two types, and the latest one (my car has it from an impreza) looks and probably performs much better. Coilpack - get a diamond coil pack. I think yours has one. Or an EJ25 coil pack. It is rumored that they are one in the same and rumored the EJ25 coilpack is the best you can get and is different from EJ22 or EJ20 coilpacks. Wires, plugs, of course. Rumored as well, iridium and the bosch platinum 4+ are the best. I used NGK V-power and put in regular bosch platinums, and noticed the bosch are slightly (ever so) better in the higher RPMS and that's it. But I haven't dished out the money for the 4+s either.

*tranny - automatics (and especially subaru) don't put much power to the ground at all. There's a huge difference in efficiency between automatics and manuals.

*clutch - don't forget a new clutch to grab the power from your newly built motor. Exedy has a stage II race clutch kit for about $399 from rallitek.com

Now, I have a 1995 Legacy, that has been converted in some ways. Here's a list of what I know is done, and then I'll tell you on what I've beaten.

When the car was wrecked, they fixed it pretty fricken well. You can't tell unless you open up the car and inspect every corner.

Block - stock. don't know about internals, assume nothing is touched.
Intake - looks like it came from the "donor car"
Heads - same ^^
MAF - same ^^
Coilpack - same ^^
Transmission - converted to AWD, from the "donor car"
Fuel pump and lines - same ^^
Clutch - slips!
Intake - no snorkel, and the bottom of the box is gutted. Also, OEM subaru filter.

Most of the running parts in my car came from a J/Y or Parts yard car, being an impreza. And just for fun, they changed the ECU too. I think I read something on imprezas after 95 had different ECUs and something small was different on the intake.

My kill list includes:

Automatic stock bronco (I think it was a 351)
a DSM (Eagle talon turbo/mitsu eclipse turbo) those are 210hp. Was probably automatic.
a VR6 Jetta on the freeway
a early model scirocco (like '82)
an MX-3
a handful of hondas and acuras
a saturn with exhaust done

you know, minor kills, but still. My favorite is the DSM. Who owns you? Subaru owns you!
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Old 05-02-2004, 11:20 AM   #8
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Default now for the other portion

Now for a post on the internals aspect of options.

Cams - Delta cams in washington will weld and re-grind cams for 140 a piece. They do heat treat them as well, so this is a very cost effective way to go. You can either get a reccomended grind, or suggest one yourself (if you know that stuff...) They did a buddies EA82 for $140 total, considered the two cam(s) were one. Don't know if the EJ22 cams would fall in this category. But hell, $280 for good, new, polished up cams? Hell yeah!

Pistons - N/A pistons, you can drop about a grand into your car and put in 11:1 pistons. Up from 9.7:1. This would run you about a grand.

Polishing and porting - Everyone in mechanics knows this does some good. I'd like to see a dyno chart of before and after, just for polishing and porting (heads, intake manifold) and to know how well and what type of port.

You might just be easier off grabbing a JDM twin turbo EJ20 with a tranny off ebay for around $1500
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Old 05-02-2004, 02:59 PM   #9
legacy2003
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so jonofscio, there IS some potential in the ej22 i guess? problem i guess too is that mine is an auto, another in which i think i would swap out. i know this is going to run me a LOT of money, but i have a lot of money already in this car, and the insurance is too high on an rs.

i didnt think it was possible to swap in an ej20tt because of the whole right hand drive thing.

if i put a straight pipe in place of my cats, would i be able to pass emissions?

how much power do you have to the wheels right now?

if i were to do a complete ej25 or ej20 swap, would i have to claim this on my insurance?

i was really hoping i could do a lot with this motor, but it seems the aftermarket is extremely lacking...

how bout an h6?

for the cams, can you reccomend a grind?

i thought about port and polish, what are the average gains in doing this?
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Old 05-03-2004, 05:06 PM   #10
linsavy
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You are right the EJ20 twin turbo will not fit without left hand drive.
The H6 swap has been done on an Impreza, but it takes extensive fabrication in addition to the complete harness rewire. Don't know if it will fit in your legacy but I think not and the wiring is still to be done.
Without cats, you cannot pass an emissions test. You could do this mod in a non-emmission test state.
The cobb header cat and open exhaust should yield something, but its fairly pricey.
A light pulley and flywheel definitely have good benefits too.

Porting and polishing may or may not yield benefits. It is about flow and there is the potential to make it worse instead of better. Experience with the specific engine is important in this regard.

Try this:
snorkus ectomy and K&N (intake noise increases)
light flywheel (lose some driveability)
2.25 mid-pipe
WRX exhaust
NGK copper plugs with new OEM wires.

If you want to spend more than that, I recommend an DOHC swap or turbo swap. With the EJ22 you get into diminshing returns after the above. E.g. cobb headers cost about the same as a donor EJ25DOHC (without installation) with guaranteed 30hp vs. "claimed" 10hp-15hp for the headers.
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