Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday April 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Motorsports

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-03-2004, 10:10 AM   #1
trhoppe
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7492
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Hotlanta, GA
Vehicle:
No race cars
www.tomhoppe.com

Default Same as the "toe out" thread, but for rear camber

Where does rear camber affect a car the most?

We are having a slight problem with our WRX being awesome on turn in, great mid corner and then ok on corner exit. It is a little pushy sometimes when you get on the throttle way early. If it does that, its easy to adjust with a little lift, but I would rather not

Would taking out a little rear camber help me at corner exit but not make the car too loose for transistions? I tried a little more toe out (we run 1/8" total out right now) and keeping the shocks stiff, the car is way too loose on entry. If we turn the shocks down, it calms down on entry, but then its too "squishy" and we end up having to catch the car through the whole slalom.

Discuss

-Tom
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
trhoppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 10:43 AM   #2
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default Re: Same as the "toe out" thread, but for rear camber

Quote:
Originally posted by trhoppe
Where does rear camber affect a car the most?

We are having a slight problem with our WRX being awesome on turn in, great mid corner and then ok on corner exit. It is a little pushy sometimes when you get on the throttle way early. If it does that, its easy to adjust with a little lift, but I would rather not

Would taking out a little rear camber help me at corner exit but not make the car too loose for transistions? I tried a little more toe out (we run 1/8" total out right now) and keeping the shocks stiff, the car is way too loose on entry. If we turn the shocks down, it calms down on entry, but then its too "squishy" and we end up having to catch the car through the whole slalom.

Discuss

-Tom
Step 1: Aquire funds
Step 2: Buy Nate Whipples Civic.
Step 3: Rotate
Step 4: ????
Step 5: Profit!
KC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 11:33 AM   #3
jmott
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6713
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston TX USA
Vehicle:
2007 Prius
brown

Default

don't hit the gas so hard =)
jmott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 11:39 AM   #4
TyrannoSullyRex
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8891
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Silver
'02 SV650

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by KC
Step 1: Aquire funds
Step 2: Buy Nate Whipples Civic.
Step 3: Rotate
Step 4: ????
Step 5: Profit!
funny, someone asked me how to win in STS yesterday, I told them to clone Hollis' car, then clone Hollis.
TyrannoSullyRex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 02:37 PM   #5
Jsortor
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 29561
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle:
2005 STX Natl Champ.
Sportin' 3/4 inches T.O.

Default

Tom,
Welcome to the world of on throttle understeer! I hear about geometry that is supposed to correct for this, (pretty much the same stuff as you all know) but the problem seems to be so severe within the design of the car that even the best changes seem to only fix a part of the problem. If anyone finds the miracle cure (thats STX legal) I'll pay for it!
Jsortor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 02:47 PM   #6
MNbiker
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 18148
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Vehicle:
'08 WRX
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Jsortor
Tom,
Welcome to the world of on throttle understeer! I hear about geometry that is supposed to correct for this, (pretty much the same stuff as you all know) but the problem seems to be so severe within the design of the car that even the best changes seem to only fix a part of the problem. If anyone finds the miracle cure (thats STX legal) I'll pay for it!
What he said...

-Steve

p.s. See ya in Farmington this weekend, Josh. (That is, if my new trailer is finished by then! )
MNbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 02:57 PM   #7
Jsortor
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 29561
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle:
2005 STX Natl Champ.
Sportin' 3/4 inches T.O.

Default

Hope to see you there. Will be the first time I "see" the hot "East Coast" setup in person.
Jsortor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 03:04 PM   #8
KC
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 442
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: SE Mass/RI
Vehicle:
2013 Crosstrek XV
00 Honda S2000

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Jsortor
Hope to see you there. Will be the first time I "see" the hot "East Coast" setup in person.

Who says he's got the hot setup?
KC is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 03:16 PM   #9
Jsortor
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 29561
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Vehicle:
2005 STX Natl Champ.
Sportin' 3/4 inches T.O.

Default

I just thought putting parenthesis around that many words, to show playful sarcasm, would look stupid.
Jsortor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 03:21 PM   #10
jmott
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 6713
Join Date: May 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Houston TX USA
Vehicle:
2007 Prius
brown

Default

the problem is AWD
easy to fix

disconnect front axles

=)


Quote:
Originally posted by Jsortor
Tom,
Welcome to the world of on throttle understeer! I hear about geometry that is supposed to correct for this, (pretty much the same stuff as you all know) but the problem seems to be so severe within the design of the car that even the best changes seem to only fix a part of the problem. If anyone finds the miracle cure (thats STX legal) I'll pay for it!
jmott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 03:57 PM   #11
GarySheehan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2450
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
1996 2005 Subaru STI
White

Default

If you have maxed out front negative camber, taking some camber out of the rear will decrease rear grip in steady-state and throttle-on exit cornering. It will effect turn-in and corner entry as well, but not to the extent that toe-out does.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
GarySheehan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 04:00 PM   #12
zoomfactor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30440
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: slave to self-employment
Vehicle:
03 WRX
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
the problem is AWD
Don't know if I agree with your cure jmott

FWIW - I don't think that many of the 2WD auto-x'ers can appreciate the complexities of setting up an AWD car.

I've got the problem of too much rotation and my set-up is no where as aggressive as some of you. I am running a little more rear camber -- about -1.8+/- with zero toe. (22-44 RSB set on 22mm, 22 mm FSB, Tein RA 8/7).
zoomfactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 04:47 PM   #13
MNbiker
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 18148
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Vehicle:
'08 WRX
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by zoomfactor
I've got the problem of too much rotation and my set-up is no where as aggressive as some of you. I am running a little more rear camber -- about -1.8+/- with zero toe. (22-44 RSB set on 22mm, 22 mm FSB, Tein RA 8/7).
If you're rotating too much with that setup, it's almost certainly the driver, not the car. (not meant as a slam) Where are you seeing "too much" rotation?

-Steve
MNbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 04:53 PM   #14
MNbiker
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 18148
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Vehicle:
'08 WRX
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Jsortor
Hope to see you there. Will be the first time I "see" the hot "East Coast" setup in person.
Too bad I can't drive it quite as fast as my co-driver in Topeka!
(Especially in the rain - cripes, Mike is truly an alien in wet weather!)

....and my setup isn't quite the same as KC's, so we'll call it the "Heartland" setup.

-Steve

p.s. This thread is starting to resemble a typical OT stream of consciousness thread. Sorry, Tom!
MNbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 05:46 PM   #15
solo-x
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 37624
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Doesn't drive a scooby....
Default

gary beat me to it and did a much better job at explaining it then i ever would.

when you said you softened your shocks when you increased your rear toe-out, did you mean you softened both front and rear? softening just the rear shocks should make the car tighter in slalom's too, not looser so i'm confused by what you said.

nate
solo-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 07:37 PM   #16
zoomfactor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30440
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: slave to self-employment
Vehicle:
03 WRX
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Where are you seeing "too much" rotation?
Man - you name it...LOL. Steady state slalom, decreasing radius, etc. The front turns-in so nice now. I just want the back to stick.

I'm sure its over-driver related But I'm going to dial out some camber in the back to see if it has any effect.

Sorry for the hijack Tom.
zoomfactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 11:21 PM   #17
DrBiggly
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 11482
Join Date: Oct 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Vehicle:
02 WRX
Acute Stickeritis

Default

Zoom,

What is your camber set at in the rear? Maybe you have too little camber in the rear?
DrBiggly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2004, 12:06 AM   #18
GarySheehan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2450
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Vehicle:
1996 2005 Subaru STI
White

Default

Zoom,

Slalom is the opposite of steady state. It's constant transitions. Steady state is when the car is leaned over in a corner and stays at a constant pitch with neutral throttle.

Gary
Sheehan Motor Racing
www.teamSMR.com
GarySheehan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2004, 02:20 AM   #19
makofoto
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25243
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: South Pasadena, CA
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy Outback
Blue

Default

Would a change/addition in LSD's help ...

I noticed on the RallySpec site ... they mention that certain types of LSD's are better for certain surfaces/conditions ...
makofoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2004, 07:52 AM   #20
MNbiker
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 18148
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Vehicle:
'08 WRX
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by makofoto
Would a change/addition in LSD's help ...

I noticed on the RallySpec site ... they mention that certain types of LSD's are better for certain surfaces/conditions ...
In Tom's case, you bet adding a front LSD would help at corner exit. Unfortunately, diff changes aren't legal in STX.

You SM guys get all the fun toys!
(and the bills to go with them! )

-Steve

p.s. The most recent Grassroots Motorsports has a really good article on differentials.
MNbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2004, 08:09 AM   #21
MNbiker
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 18148
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Vehicle:
'08 WRX
Dark Gray

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by zoomfactor
Man - you name it...LOL. Steady state slalom, decreasing radius, etc. The front turns-in so nice now. I just want the back to stick.

I'm sure its over-driver related But I'm going to dial out some camber in the back to see if it has any effect.

Sorry for the hijack Tom.
Sounds like the nut behind the wheel to me....

Not sure I understand some of your comments. As Gary said, slaloms are anything but steady-state.

With regards to dialing out rear camber, are you talking about going more negative or more postive? If you go more positive, your car will get looser.

Before you do anything, I'd work on the driver issues. Your car is already set up more conservatively than is ideal for autocross. If you're driving smoothly and within the cars capabilities, there's no way it should be anything but benign.

-Steve

p.s. If you want loose, try a 1300lb Birkin (Lotus 7 clone) with 160whp and not enough tire. I scared the crap out of myself in that thing! (and had fun doing it! )
MNbiker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2004, 09:01 AM   #22
zoomfactor
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 30440
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: slave to self-employment
Vehicle:
03 WRX
WR Blue

Default

"Steady state" was a poor choice of words

I was trying to describe a steady constant radius slalom.

As far as driving I'm pretty smooth. I think that all of the years of dealing with my MR2's snap oversteer have me "edgy" when I begin to feel rotation at speed and the WRXs open front diff doesn't give that feeling of adequate power to the front.

Thanks for the feedback

As far as the Birkin, my dream car has always been the Lotus/Caterham 7...but now with the USDM Elise there may be a new car on the horizon -- one day.
zoomfactor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
is the 06 wrx rear bumper the same as the 06 sti rear bumper? sonycrr Newbies & FAQs 6 03-22-2007 09:45 AM
Window motors - rear doors the same as the front? moogoob Service & Maintenance 8 09-24-2005 01:20 AM
aircraft carrier on ebay. doesn't look the same as the other thread plunk10 Off-Topic 35 01-02-2004 09:46 AM
Crash test results for the STi same as the WRX? jcochran STi Forum Archive 42 06-25-2003 03:36 PM
FS locally: Very cool JDM WRX seats! Same as the STI ones but affordable! Check it... JSiwek Bay Area Impreza Club Forum -- BAIC 3 03-14-2003 03:37 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:14 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.