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Old 07-10-2000, 02:02 PM   #1
JC SPORTS
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We should have the first run available in 2 weeks. I will be posting pictures of it on my web site tonight.

Thank you.
JC
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Old 07-10-2000, 02:16 PM   #2
Imprezer
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TMR, what about that M3?
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Old 07-10-2000, 02:54 PM   #3
TMR Impreza
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Talking

No one has bought my car yet. I have pistons, block, and Rods. I'm waiting for some cams and then I'll have Ed put it together. But If someone buys my car... Turbo M3 it is.
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Old 07-10-2000, 08:46 PM   #4
Strepto
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so, do you guys need a N/A car to test this out on?

-Rolando
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Old 07-10-2000, 10:16 PM   #5
shiv
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What's going to control the 550cc injectors?

Shiv
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Old 07-11-2000, 12:33 AM   #6
JC SPORTS
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Post Fuel Injectors / Fuel system

JC SPORTS is proud to announce we have a complete bolt in Fuel Injector kit. It replaces the stock fuel pump, pressure regulator, fuel rail system, fuel injectors (550cc equivilents), fuel filter and includes our fuel pump relay.

We have noticed a significant increase in power and an improved acceleration curve (much smoother than before). We were doing inital testing this weekend when we lost the rear diff. We will be swaping it out and changing the trans to 2x for dyno testing. We will have results with in the week.

We are building up several sets and we will have them for sale by the end of the month.
Cost is expected to be around $1200.00 for the complete kit.

Any interest?

Thank you
JC
 
Old 07-11-2000, 12:38 AM   #7
TMR Impreza
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Talking

You know me. WHEN CAN I have it!!!
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Old 07-11-2000, 07:23 AM   #8
JC SPORTS
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Strepto- won't work on a n/a car. Sorry.
Shiv- We are using the stock ECU. That's right the stock ECU. Not an over priced replacement. We have designed the kit to use high resistance injectors. With this set up the factory computer works fine. We raised the pressure to 63psi and increased the volume. We will be taking to the track Wednesday night for 1/4 mile testing. Although this car is actually set up for road and distance. Not the run down the drive way. We will be dyno testing it also to get a better idea of the power increase. On the turbo cars, if you start running anything over about 8psi you are running the injectors close to their maximum duty cycle. Once there they will run out of volume and pressure and most likly cause your car to run lean. This simple kit eliminates that. Do not get me wrong the high priced after market ECU are great if you have the money and the knowledge to use them. But I know of customers who couldn't figure the tower bar out let alone giving them something as complex as an AFC or a TEC II. I know we can install it and charge them for it but they always want to touch it. This is almost fool proof. Just install it and go. I will post the rest of the results later.

Thank you.
JC
 
Old 07-11-2000, 09:48 AM   #9
NickSTi
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Question

I have a question Joe - what about those people that already have an uprated fuel pump? You said the kit replaces the stock one. Which one are you using in your kit? And finally how much does the price come down if you just want everything else?

Whoops, that was not one question.
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Old 07-11-2000, 09:53 AM   #10
Tim Prudence
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Yeah, I'd like to see components priced individually as well. I've already spent money on a paxton fpr, and a supra tt fuel pump.

Could I just add the injectors and the rest of the stuff to what I have already?
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Old 07-11-2000, 10:20 AM   #11
NickSTi
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Thumbs up

That's what I am talking about Tim.
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Old 07-11-2000, 11:12 AM   #12
JC SPORTS
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Those are valid questions and I will have th eprice break down and the complete info by this week end. I know it is a long time, but I am overwhelmed with order for this and the other group buys.

All parts will be available seperatly.

Thanks
JC
 
Old 07-11-2000, 11:48 AM   #13
shiv
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Hey JC,

Mind if we take this to the tech forum? There's a lot of issues here that people need to be aware of before buying your $1200 fuel system upgrade.

shiv
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Old 07-11-2000, 04:17 PM   #14
Imprezer
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I don't see how installing a fuel pump, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, fuel rail and that misterious relay is easier that installing a TEC II or even AFC. Thats a joke, right, Joe? I agree, that most people will be scared to install TEC II by themselves (although ANYONE can do it), but AFC?!?!?!?! But you are confident that people who can't install a strut car, can install a fuel pump? Danger, Robinsons, Danger!!!

Also, I can imagine what the car equipped with 550cc injectors and 63psi fuel pressure will be doing at idle.

Oh, and by the way, Joe, thanks a lot for your donation. So generous...
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Old 07-11-2000, 04:42 PM   #15
JC SPORTS
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It idles just fine. And I sent $200.00 for your information. I am not saying installing is the hard part, tuning it is where you might make a mistake. Anyone with common sense can install parts. It is what you do with it after you install it. This injector system is not adjustable. Most people can't mess with it. Install it and go. I have seen some programmable ECU's and you are constantly tuning them. AM I NOT CORRECT, in saying everyone with a tec II is not consttantly trying to make it run just a little better? This eliminates that. I am not saying this is the perfect piece. But if you are running boost this will get you close to where you need to be without the expense. Even the tec ii would work better with this. I believe.

JC
 
Old 07-11-2000, 04:45 PM   #16
Tim Prudence
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Adding JC's fuel system must surely be easier than installing a TEC-II and a new fuel system. The TEC-II alone would not satisfy our fueling needs (still need new pump, fpr, injectors)...

In any case, nobody should attempt ANY of these mods TEC-II, fuel system, driving a turboed car, if they can't install a strut bar.
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Old 07-11-2000, 04:58 PM   #17
shiv
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Tim-- you don't need aftermarket fuel pressure regulator with the TEC-II. The stock one works fine. Leave it alone. And injectors come with the turbo TEC-II kit (as does boost control, coils, ignition wires, and knock sensing). The only thing you'll need for more than 8psi of boost is a fuel pump upgrade. As a whole system, it's quite easy to install. Far easier (and cleaner) than wiring up an AFC, J&S and ITC combo. Far more effective and easier to tune as well.

JC-- A few questions for you. Why did the designer of your fuel system call me up earlier today to ask me questions about the TEC-II? Why was he surprised when I told him that speed density systems automatically compensate for altitude? Why was he surprised when I told him the stock coils weren't ideal for high rpm/high boost applications? Why does he think that your fuel system will safely support 400hp? Why are you not telling everyone that your kit (according to the designer) needs an AFC to trim out fuel at idle and low loads? How does 440cc injectors at 63psi become the equivalent of 550cc injectors? Why do you say the stock 280cc injectors approach full duty cycle at 8psi when, in fact, they reach 80% duty cycle in N/A (no boost)? Why are you including a fuel pump relay with your kit if the fuel pump is a drop in replacement? Why do you think the stock rails are a limitiation? Are you aware that they very likely flow more fuel than your injectors and that each side only has to supply fuel for two cylinders?

And most importantly... as a "tuner", why are you so against real tuning?

Enquiring minds want to know...

shiv

[This message has been edited by shiv (edited July 11, 2000).]
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Old 07-11-2000, 05:20 PM   #18
Tim Prudence
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I thought there were numerous posts about people having difficulties getting the fuel pressure down with an uprated fuel pump and the stock regulator.

In any case, I'm not disagreeing. I just wish I knew these kits would be available when I started modding my car a year ago. The AFC/ITC combo is a nightmare, not the wiring, but the tuning. It seems like I'm always tweaking things making improvements in some places and worsening things other places.

It sounds to me that both kits have their place in the tuning community. If money was no object, of course everyone would go running for your kit, Shiv... But if JC's kit does indeed allow us to use larger injectors without replacing the ECU (only time and testing will tell) then that would be of great use to those of use who are don't have the resources to acquire the TEC-II.

Wow! I'm really astonished at how the Subaru aftermarket has grown so quickly!
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Old 07-11-2000, 06:05 PM   #19
Imprezer
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Wink

Joe, I never got any money from you. Thats ok. We got everything covered with the help of the loyal members and those vendors who took their time to send us $ and make sure that we got it and stuff. But thats besides the point.

So you are saying that if you have TEC II or AFC/ITC you constantly tune you car to run better? Hell yeah, thats whats its all about. You are saying that tunning is the hard part. I argee. And what do you do? You just DON'T tune it. Way to go, Joe!!!

If one would want to have a properly setup car with you kit, they will need to add a truck load of stuff. Boost controller, ITC, AFC, knock sensor. At this point we are already way pass the price of an "overpriced" TEC II. Then remember coils, plug wires and last but not least ease of tuning. Oh yeah, lets add the need to buy MAS sensors for 99 cars at least 3 times a year.

God, I really have to finish up my turbo project ASAP.
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Old 07-11-2000, 07:03 PM   #20
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Hello,

Alex, it's an old Russian technique that Joe is using. His system is better because even if it's not perfect, you have no choice. See? Much better than having the option to fine tune.

But I'll move my tech comments to the other thread... http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Foru...ML/003057.html

Joel
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Old 07-11-2000, 07:05 PM   #21
Imprezer
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Wink

Russian techniques rule!!!
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Old 07-12-2000, 12:35 AM   #22
JC SPORTS
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Shiv

Sure, I don't mind. I would like to see what comes of this.

JC
 
Old 07-12-2000, 02:42 PM   #23
Danny5
The Emperor Protects
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Cool

Thanks for the long winded reply Joel (see the other thread on this subject that Alex selfishly closed)

Surprisingly, and keep in mind that I don't think highly of people who rent Grand Ams for track events, I found most of what you said very logical and well versed.

Well, if you promise not tell anybody, I find most of what you say logical and very informative, but you'll have to torture me for days to admit that in person!!!

Anyways, thanks for explaining Shiv's Tec Kit. Shiv must have been tired when he announced it. He made the mistake that many new tuners make, and that was not say anything about the kit, just say it was for sale. He then referred to someone elses board post for install pictures, but even that had no text...

Can we say worthless??? All I knew was that Shiv was selling a TecII with injectors for $2500. Nothing about base maps. Nothing about difficulty of install. Nothing about new harnesses, etc.

But hell - I probably *would* buy a TecII kit from Shiv if its really that easy! And a minnam turbo kit too! (Ok, I really don't like Minnam, but once again I refer to the one Minnam kit I get to see all the time...)

Well - I will have to wait and see. Actually, JCs kit now has a properly sized turbo and TMIC I may just mix and match from him, and use the TECII kit for all the fuel needs.

Oh yeah - but I wanted an STI motor and transmission! If I go this route, I will still have to buy a good tranny to go in the car.

Well, guess that is why I am playing the waiting game!

But all this sandbagging on JC isn't good for my wallet! Are you guys trying to remove a Subaru parts source from the picture? I hate all this speculation about how something would perform. If you run big injectors, its going to idle like crap.

I remember Joel used to think that 2.5 was definately NOT the way to go, until he was given a REAL WORLD ride in a turboed RS.

So, instead of everyone bitching about how the hell this could work, get off your ass and go see JC. Or wait for the dyno graphs. Either way, Real World performance is where its at, not a bunch of theories.

Here is a good one everyone talks about... In the 99RS, you get a lean run condition above 5000rpm that will show a 40-50hp drop by redline if you have installed intake and exhaust.

Well, I only show a 15hp drop via my G-Tech. Guess my car is special, eh?

Anyways, 'nuff said about that. I get to debate Shiv on his kit soon when Lloyd and I go to see him. Who knows, maybe I'll end up a convert like Joel.

You get that timing wheel back in your car Shiv? I want a ride too!!!

-Dan
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Old 07-12-2000, 03:03 PM   #24
thepas
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PRICES for the Parts?? still lookin for them. I'm all for this JC setup. I have been thinking a lot about this with the install of my JC turbo Setup only days away now. (well, prob 2 weeks). I have a AFC and a ITC and I believe the fuel delivery would be linear to the stock ones, yet just more fuel at any givin time. As far as the car ECU thinks wise I would think it would keep the same duty cycle throught the board. So, YES a AFC would REALLY help tuning, NO I don't think it's that stinkin hard. C'mon guys, get a Rich/Lean meter or use the O2 sensor on the AFC and TUNE YOUR CAR. It may take some time, but hey, if you don't want to tune your car, get a WRX when they come out. I would tend to think that anyone that is getting this setup would already have a Turbo setup, or a Really beefy N/A setup and is already deep into tuning anyhow. I am happy to know I won't have to search out some Australian company or european company to get some Injectors now. All I wanta know now is $ per part. I believe most Turbo owners will only need the rails and injectors, some may need the Pressure regulator, some may not cuz they have one already, but most will have a AFC already.

One question. With this kit, you don't need a FPR do you?? I wouldn't think you would. not for running around 9-10lbs. Thats nice seeing as though the weapon R FPR down right sucks and has a lousy track record.

Kyle
boostedimpreza@aol.com
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Old 07-12-2000, 03:11 PM   #25
Imprezer
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Why selfishly? People have asked me to keep one thread open.

Dan, I don't think you are right. You might have missed about a month on the board. Ever since I have installed my TEC II kit, I have been posting, answering questions and generally explaining the "customer's" end of the TEC II. Then Nick posted his great pics and explanations. Shiv took a big part adding and explaining the TEC II in most of mine and Nick's TEC II related posts. So, he did NOT come out of nowhere and said that it was for sale now.

Am I right, guys?

Selfish Alex
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