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Old 05-06-2004, 10:33 PM   #1
wickedscooby
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Default turbo kits- FAT stage III vs. AVO

im looking for some info about FAT stage III and AVO kits. i have a 99 rs and im looking to do pistons and rods. would that be feasible? and if i wanted like 9 lbs of boost i would just have to change the spring in the wastegate right? thanx alot -dave-
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Old 05-07-2004, 03:44 PM   #2
squirrelmasta
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On the FAT i believe yes. for the AVO i think you have to get a boost controler. External vs Interna. but if you do pistons, i would run more than 9. prob like 12-14psi
-Eli
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:06 PM   #3
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would the 2.5 N/A block take 12 psi?
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by wickedscooby
would the 2.5 N/A block take 12 psi?
With good tuning and correct pistons, rods and rings... yes. You might not even need all that stuff. I've known a couple people that daily drove 12psi for a while on stock 2.5 internals (the motors did blow after a while, so I wouldn't recommend it though!).

To run higher than the standard wastegate boost, you just need a boost controller (electronic or manual).

-Charlie
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:40 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by phattyduck
With good tuning and correct pistons, rods and rings... yes. You might not even need all that stuff. I've known a couple people that daily drove 12psi for a while on stock 2.5 internals (the motors did blow after a while, so I wouldn't recommend it though!).

To run higher than the standard wastegate boost, you just need a boost controller (electronic or manual).

-Charlie
Then that wouldn't exactly be a 2.5 N/A block....
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Old 05-07-2004, 10:16 PM   #6
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Stock block yes. stock internals no. but i think the block would be fine on 12 psi if you lowered the compression to 8.5:1 or 8:1. but if you are going that rought, and want to run that kind of psi, why not just go STi block and run 15. Just my, plunk, plunk 2 cents.
-Eli
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Old 05-08-2004, 12:12 AM   #7
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yea i thought about that and i wanted to stay within a budget to get it done. if i had about 15k to drop into my car i would drop in a sti block and get the whole driveline redone, and make a crazy race car.......................maybe in a few years
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Old 05-08-2004, 12:48 AM   #8
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and would my 2.5 liter heads work on an sti shortblock?
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Old 05-08-2004, 01:00 AM   #9
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yes. i believe its around $1400 for the block, pistons, rods, and crank. not sure on that though. don't know if that is SOHC or DOHC. 99's are the best though!!!!
-Eli
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Old 05-08-2004, 01:15 AM   #10
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i agree!
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Old 05-08-2004, 04:35 AM   #11
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Default DOHC

actualy 98s are the best and half of those 99s with duel overhead cams
but anyway. get an ej22t. its better than an sti block for many reasons.

1: fully closed deck block as oposed to the STI's semi closed deck
2: there is no drilling and cutting to get the coolant passages to line up to your heads!
3: forged crank and rods, ceramic heated treated pistons,STOCK!
4: gives you a lower compression ratio which means MORE boost before detonation which can equal up to some KILLER high end torque!


dont spend a DIME on your stock RS block if you want to go force fed. Its completely open deck. and it's built for N/A use....NOT forced induction.

check out this thread about the ej22t: go to the 2nd page about halfway down and start reading everything xephyr posts. That guy is the man!
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ighlight=ej22t

Last edited by IllNastyImpreza; 05-08-2004 at 04:42 AM.
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Old 05-08-2004, 02:40 PM   #12
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the old EJ22T was that SOCH or DOHC? i just don't know if i can part with the 2.5
-Eli
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Old 05-08-2004, 04:55 PM   #13
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DOHC but the heads are quite out-dated. People seem to like using the RS heads on that, although there are some thought-to-be problems with oil passages not lining up or something...

-Ben
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Old 05-09-2004, 01:30 AM   #14
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Cool ej22t

the ej22t is a COMPLETE bolt on to your RS heads... that is IF you have the DOHC. If you have the later edition SOHC with the roller cams be warned. SOHC are not recomended for this. as you can not dial in cam timing(aftermarket cams). Under high boost some of your intake air is lost straight out the exhaust port during compresion. DOH ! though......it still works.

the legacy turbo heads dont flow verry well @ all.

INTAKE FLOW DATA


IN MAX FLOW @ MAX LIFT
EJ25 SOHC: 240 CFM @ 0.375" Lift
EJ22T SOHC: 193 CFM @ 0.350" Lift
GM LS1: 231 CFM @ 0.500" Lift

EXHAUST FLOW DATA

EX MAX FLOW @ MAX LIFT
EJ25 SOHC: 182 CFM @ 0.310" Lift
EJ22T SOHC: 147 CFM @ 0.350" Lift
GM LS1: 193 CFM @ 0.500" Lift

gives u a little comparison....
so in short, 98 RS DOHC heads with ej22t block= BULLETPROOF bottom end.

and as far as a turbo kit goes...why spend twice as much on a "kit" when you can buy the parts seperatly and save a SZHITLOAD of money.

just my 2 cents
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Old 05-09-2004, 08:48 PM   #15
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i have the SOHC so i would have to buy new heads if i got a ej22t block. i just dont wanna do the leg work with building my own turbo set up.
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Old 05-09-2004, 09:09 PM   #16
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btw, AVO kit is soo much better than the FAT st3 because of 2 things: Better quality and standalone!
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Old 05-09-2004, 09:46 PM   #17
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There is so much wrong with this thread that I don't know where to start.
1.EJ22T's were a SOHC engine with the old hydraulic lash adjusters. They flow OK, and would be fine for anyone who doesn't have better heads to work with. There are several guys making close to 300CHP with stock heads and TD05's.
2. Larry Witherspoon decided he didn't like how the SOHC ej25 heads lined up to the EJ22T block, so he didn't do it. Somehow this has become one of those internet myths that they won't work. There are a couple of guys on this very board using SOHC EJ25 heads with EJ22T bottom ends. It can and has been done.
3. The guys who have done this did not cut and drill oil passages! They just block them with a head gasket.
4.Lower compression is not the end all fix to detonation woes. And going with lower CR affects driveability off boost, so you better have a turbo that is perfectly mated to your block and spools real early. And stand alone engine management is a must. Some dude up in the NW blew up his EJ22T block w/EJ25 heads because he had detonation.
5. This is the first I have heard of EJ22T's having ceramic treated pistons.
6. If the EJ22T block is SOOOO superior, how come Marc Rameriz aka Xephyr has sold all of his EJ22 blocks and now runs and EJ257 in his RS-T? They are both good blocks.
7. Going rate on an EJ257 is $1250 including gaskets. If you pay more you are getting ripped off.
8. The SOHC cams on the EJ25 do not have a problem with FI applications. The intake air is lost straight out the exhaust port during combustion? Only if you have huge overlap aftermarket cams designed for NA use will that happen. Look at Graham's build. EJ257 block with SOHC EJ25 heads with stock cams and upgraded springs.

And what does any of this have to do with AVO vs. FAT? NOTHING AT ALL. But I just couldn't sit by and watch such ignorant misinformation being spewed all over the place...
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:15 PM   #18
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If I was as informed as you, I'd be pissed too
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:09 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Soon2BturbodRS
If I was as informed as you, I'd be pissed too
BTW,
YOU never bothered to reply and tell me you weren't interested in either of my Ej22T blocks...
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Old 05-10-2004, 12:31 AM   #20
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oh damn, PM'd you.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:02 PM   #21
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thanx for the info matt. i think im gonna stick with my 2.5 SOHC block and heads. im just gonna throw in je pistons eagle rods and see how well they perform with the turbo kit. what would u suggest to do with my block
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:20 AM   #22
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Impreza GC8 ej22t

obviously matt you like to settle for mediocre. 300 crank HP? its common sence that a FULLY closed deck block, is stronger than a SEMI closed deck block.

"lower CR affects driveability off boost"....I dono about you, but I'm not not exacltly a sunday driver, I'm talking about performance... PERIOD. I dont even drive my car unless the pedal is on the floor.why use the stock crappy restrictive head when it only takes a little bit of inginuity to construct a MONSTER.

I was simply giving INFORMATION, not wasting everyone's time(like I am now) to bash someone who I disagree with.

You like the STI block, thats nice.

and as far as the thread goes, I was simply progressing the inevitable....>Once you get a turbo, you want MORE boost! And Wickedscooby, why spend all that money on rods and pistons and the hassel to rip it ALL out and put it back together? thats a decent amount of money. like Matt said even the STI block is around 1250 bucks! Thats RELIABLE 450+ crank HP capability.Dont even get me started on how much better then ej22t is.

PLEASE talk with someone with some long time experience if you're gona spend all that money. Living up to his reputation, Mark AKA zephyr can answer pretty much ANY question you ask him. Mark I hope you dont mind

O yea BTW why dont you ask him why hes TESTING the STI now?
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