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Old 05-07-2004, 11:23 AM   #1
Fred
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Default RSTurbo or M3?

Just bored & doing some hypothetical daydreaming:

I've been thinking about swapping a WRX engine (or something more sinister) into one of my RSes, which is something I should be able to do myself with a little help (so no $labor). I'm thinking the cost would be around the amount I'd have to spend if I sold that RS, bought an E36 M3 & "refreshed" it. Hmmm...

Pro-RSTurbo:
Duh, it's an RS Turbo.
I could use it for rallyx, track & some autoxes (I have an STS RS which is the "autox car"), and daily-drive it. Basically, it could do "everything."
Good traction when it snows.
I've wanted to do this for a long time.
Aren't M3 parts expensive?

Pro-M3:
Duh, it's an M3.
It would be a lot of fun to have a decent-hp rwd car to play with.
RSTurbo = a lot of work - and it could start breaking stuff.
Wouldn't have to do a lot to it to make it handle amazingly well.
I've heard they're pretty reliable (but is that true?)
I've wanted one since I knew it existed.
Aren't busted Subaru trannies expensive?


If I sold the RS & bought the M3, I'd have a great tarmac car, but I'd be without a rallyx car - but I could just rent a ride with somebody else. But an RS/WRX hybrid would own almost everything in its path, regardless of "track" surface. Sure would be nice to be able to get by all those people I catch in the turns at VIR without them having to slow down after pointing me by - but I could do that with either car.

On my scale of badass cars (that I could actually own), I'd say that both options rate about the same - which is right at the top. Just wondering if I can get some input from people with M3 experience - or RSTurbo experience. Or who just have an opinion. Or a reality check on either car.

And yes, I'm indecisive - but at least I'm not asking which BBK I should get for autox or something...
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:25 AM   #2
cdvma
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Drop the WRX engine into the RS...you wont regret it.
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Old 05-07-2004, 11:30 AM   #3
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Quote:
but at least I'm not asking which BBK I should get for autox or something...


WRX motor into RS.....

-Tom
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Old 05-07-2004, 03:12 PM   #4
mofugga
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build up an ej22t & put it in the RS
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Old 05-07-2004, 03:23 PM   #5
RyanC
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I had a turbo RS then went to an M Coupe... the RS was a lot of fun, and surprising other people was part of that, but bone stock, my Coupe had better handling, better braking (by far, and I had 4 pots + race pads + ducting on the RS), and as good power. For track duty the M car is a better choice, if only for the fact that you can do just as well in a bone stock car. But the RS-T is a heck of a car, and I miss mine a lot.
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Old 05-07-2004, 03:48 PM   #6
ButtDyno
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Quote:
Originally posted by mofugga
build up an ej22t & put it in the RS
There are some posts on here about how it will rev to 9000 all day, handle 80 lbs of boost, etc etc. Sounds like it would be a fun motor

john
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Old 05-07-2004, 05:42 PM   #7
stiski
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Thinking about buying new cars is fun...

If you have the money to get a new M3 I would definitely save some of it and get a built 2.2 with 5 spd RA gearset and have fun. From what I have read that sounds like a potent combination.

From your posts it seems like you enjoy tinkering with your RS and spinning donuts in empty feilds. Would you be able to do that in an M3? And BMW parts are super expensive.
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Old 05-07-2004, 06:49 PM   #8
jmott
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Default Re: RSTurbo or M3?

for an autocross/track car, M3 all the way. In fact, you can save yourself $10k and just get a used 328i instead.


for a street car/occasional dirt road use - RSturbo maybe.


Quote:
Originally posted by Fred
Just bored & doing some hypothetical daydreaming:

I've been thinking about swapping a WRX engine (or something more sinister) into one of my RSes, which is something I should be able to do myself with a little help (so no $labor). I'm thinking the cost would be around the amount I'd have to spend if I sold that RS, bought an E36 M3 & "refreshed" it. Hmmm...

Pro-RSTurbo:
Duh, it's an RS Turbo.
I could use it for rallyx, track & some autoxes (I have an STS RS which is the "autox car"), and daily-drive it. Basically, it could do "everything."
Good traction when it snows.
I've wanted to do this for a long time.
Aren't M3 parts expensive?

Pro-M3:
Duh, it's an M3.
It would be a lot of fun to have a decent-hp rwd car to play with.
RSTurbo = a lot of work - and it could start breaking stuff.
Wouldn't have to do a lot to it to make it handle amazingly well.
I've heard they're pretty reliable (but is that true?)
I've wanted one since I knew it existed.
Aren't busted Subaru trannies expensive?


If I sold the RS & bought the M3, I'd have a great tarmac car, but I'd be without a rallyx car - but I could just rent a ride with somebody else. But an RS/WRX hybrid would own almost everything in its path, regardless of "track" surface. Sure would be nice to be able to get by all those people I catch in the turns at VIR without them having to slow down after pointing me by - but I could do that with either car.

On my scale of badass cars (that I could actually own), I'd say that both options rate about the same - which is right at the top. Just wondering if I can get some input from people with M3 experience - or RSTurbo experience. Or who just have an opinion. Or a reality check on either car.

And yes, I'm indecisive - but at least I'm not asking which BBK I should get for autox or something...
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Old 05-07-2004, 08:17 PM   #9
AndyRoo
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im sure the RS Turbo would end up being way more expensive after you bring it up to par with the M3 in terms handling/braking. Just the engine swap might be close in price, but there would still be a lot to do after that. It would also potentially be a headache and/or troublesome. RWD is fun, too.

That being said...an EJ22t would be amazing and way cooler. Isnt that all that counts?
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:10 PM   #10
Burnout
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Yeh instead of doing a full 2.2 swap iv heard good things about 2.2 short block and SOHC heads, someone please correct me if im wrong. Don't think there would be a reliability issue there except for maybe the transmission depending on how much power you put out but a wrx gearbox could probably take care of that. That leaving the biggest thing to tend to would be engine management.

Or you could skip all that and do a wrx swap and not have to worry about any of it. But 2.2 = more torque and torque is good for the rallycross.
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Old 05-08-2004, 11:32 PM   #11
ButtDyno
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If this doesn't make you want the EJ22-T... nothing will!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&pagenumber=1

Quote:
4. The T.Legacy engine failure experiment I refer to invloved my attempt to find out what the limits of the engine were. It started with a T.Leg engine with 150,000 miles from the junkyard. First, I ran it for weeks at 27-30 psi. Second, I over-revved it to 11,000 rpm twice, by shifting from 2nd gear redlined, to first (by the way, this shift can only be done with a dogbox). After having no failures, I finally took it to Second Creek Raceway. This track is a 1.7 mile circuit track, with hills, chicanes, all kinds of turns, and so forth. I drove the piss out of it for 20 laps straight (over twenty minutes straight), shifting at 9000 rpm, heating the hell out of it, and pummeling it with tons of boost. Eventually, I spun the number 2 rod bearing. After tearing down the engine, inspection of the engine revealed that other than the bearing, the rest of the engine was in perfect shape. Furthermore, the failed rod bearing was more than likely caused by damage sustained from the 11000 rpm incidents.
john
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Old 05-09-2004, 02:03 AM   #12
subaru16valve
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BlizzzACK!

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Quote:
Originally posted by ButtDyno
If this doesn't make you want the EJ22-T... nothing will!

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&pagenumber=1



john


...whoa.

Note: What is the estimated cost for a built 2.2, either purchased in pieces or swapped (as in.. in the car, ready to go, pee your pants power at your foot right then)?

-A
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Old 05-09-2004, 10:02 AM   #13
ButtDyno
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No clue

john
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Old 05-09-2004, 02:50 PM   #14
Fitz
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M3.

Fitz
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Old 05-09-2004, 03:37 PM   #15
Morison
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odd question - why noyt just build the hell out of a normally aspirated 2.5 engine? A local company to me figures that they can get a reliable 300HP easily out of a 2.5 engine.
you get rid of the turbo hassles and still get to enjoy good HP!
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Old 05-09-2004, 05:28 PM   #16
Capt Crunch
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Quote:
Originally posted by Morison
odd question - why noyt just build the hell out of a normally aspirated 2.5 engine? A local company to me figures that they can get a reliable 300HP easily out of a 2.5 engine.
you get rid of the turbo hassles and still get to enjoy good HP!
NA?!?!!? The E46 M3 motor gets 315 out of a 3.2 and it is the most highly strung motor I can think of. A 2.5 making 300 hp would be quite a feat.
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Old 05-09-2004, 06:01 PM   #17
Fitz
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Quote:
Originally posted by Morison
odd question - why noyt just build the hell out of a normally aspirated 2.5 engine? A local company to me figures that they can get a reliable 300HP easily out of a 2.5 engine.
you get rid of the turbo hassles and still get to enjoy good HP!
For the price of that 300hp NA motor and the engine management to go along with it you could probably buy a brand new M3.

Fitz
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Old 05-09-2004, 09:39 PM   #18
Fred
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Well, I got to drive Anders Green's H6 Impreza rally car several times yesterday after our rallycross school, and now I have another option to consider...



I don't suck at rallycross, and I ain't afraid to get my RS sliding through corners at 50mph with my foot on the floor, but this thing was so fast it seemed like it was powered by pure evil. And it was on practically-slick street tires.

I remarked on how hard it was to drive fast compared to my RS, and Anders replied, "now imagine doing that in 3rd gear with trees on each side."
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:25 AM   #19
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Oooh, you got to drive Anders' car? Sweet!

"powered by pure evil" That's just awesome.
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Old 05-10-2004, 01:07 PM   #20
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Hey wait a minute, if this thing was powered by pure concentrated evil does that mean that there is a woman under the hood?
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Old 05-10-2004, 01:10 PM   #21
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e36 m3 + supercharger =



from someone who knows.
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:22 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fred
Well, I got to drive Anders Green's H6 Impreza rally car several times yesterday after our rallycross school, and now I have another option to consider...
Lucky bastard!

P.S. The new EZ30-R H6 in the 2005's has 250hp instead of 210
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:28 PM   #23
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if i were you, i'd go with the m3... i mean you already have an rs, and rwd=tons of fun.

just my quick take on it...
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:30 PM   #24
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oh, and i know that this is probably a bit out of the picture for your price range, but i've heard that z06s are pretty cheap these days (relatively cheap that is...).
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:52 AM   #25
anders8
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrBiggly
Hey wait a minute, if this thing was powered by pure concentrated evil does that mean that there is a woman under the hood?
Ahh, well, if that's the case, DrBiggly, our tow van is powered by pure concentrated evil.

But I think in this case, since the van is actually not fast, it's powered by love.

Here's a picture of Amy nearly kissing the Rochester Quadrajet while replacing a bunk thermostat in a parking lot on the way home from Rally Tennessee.


Last edited by anders8; 05-12-2004 at 08:00 AM.
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