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Old 02-29-2000, 01:42 PM   #1
Subecowboy
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Question Supercharger VS. Turbocharger

i have been looking around the net for a reliable, fast source for a 00RS.(hopefully one i am getting in july)

so far i have found Minam turbos:fast as balls, burns oil, $4200 (!) plus installation.

JC sports not too terrebly fast, heard of JC's notorious rep, haven't seen real horsepower figures for RS, bolt-on capibilities, and $2700 , i might be able to install myself.(says bolt-on)

And Rimmer superchargers, good horsepower, not too expensive ($3000 to $3449), i don;t know why an air filter costs $449, but to rimmer it does. I also need to know how much it costs to add that f'ed up hump to the hood. Also it's dead reliable. can't raise PSI though.

anyone heard of any other kits, products?
is there any way i can use a vortech blower with after cooler? HKS? Greddy? STi? anyone?

thx,

-chris
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Old 02-29-2000, 02:10 PM   #2
shiv
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Quote:
Originally posted by Subecowboy:

so far i have found Minam turbos:fast as balls, burns oil, $4200 (!) plus installation.
In nearly 20,000 miles of hard use, I haven't burned any appreciable amount of oil. I'd imagine the oil burning problem only occurs when the oil return line is routed improperly or kinked. But this applies to all turbo systems. FWIW, I'm running 10w-30 Redline synthetic.

As for installation, it's something that almost any shadetree mechanic can tackle in one day. The only work that needs to be subcontracted is the oil pan welding. Drop that off in the morning and pick that up at night when the job is done.

shiv
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Old 02-29-2000, 02:18 PM   #3
delectron
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Shiv: would it not be a good idea for me to run my 5w30 redline once I put the turbo in?
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Old 02-29-2000, 02:30 PM   #4
Section 8
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Post

Quote:
Originally posted by Subecowboy:


And Rimmer superchargers, good horsepower, not too expensive ($3000 to $3449), i don;t know why an air filter costs $449, but to rimmer it does. I also need to know how much it costs to add that f'ed up hump to the hood. Also it's dead reliable. can't raise PSI though.


-chris
Just to further complicate things, you can change intake pressure somewhat on a super charger by changing the drive gear ratio. But when you start doing that, just like turning up the boost on a turbo charger, you need to add fuel ect ect, possibly replacing your dead reliable engine with a smoking heap if not done properly (like everything else).

I thought that Rimmer now made the super charger kit available with or without that hump?

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Old 02-29-2000, 02:59 PM   #5
Subecowboy
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The reason i put $3000-$3449 is that they offer 2 types, hump($3000) and non-hump(3449) the extra $449 is for some special air filter(according to this page)
i think the Minam kit is the way to go...so far
i still haven't heard anything about the JC kit...anyone wanna come out and spill thier guts?

thx guys,
-chris
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Old 02-29-2000, 03:04 PM   #6
imprezive
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If I"m correct the minnam kit is around 2600$ in american money
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Old 02-29-2000, 03:13 PM   #7
Subecowboy
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that's stage I chief, i'm looking at the stage II
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Old 02-29-2000, 03:13 PM   #8
Section 8
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Unless you have to have forced induction soon, you might want to wait and see what Rallispec is going to offer. Seems as if eveyone who has done buisness with them is quite satisfied. (?I don't know anything about this, but I thought that I remember reading a post that said that they are working on a kit?)

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Old 02-29-2000, 03:29 PM   #9
TR
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Post

to clarify what Rimmer offers.
they have a new kit which uses and Autoroter supercharger and an intercooler.
boost levels are from 6 - 10 lbs.
like anyone else they need to make sure that enough fuel gets to the engine to prevent engine failure.

this kit is priced at about 3000$ and should be available very soon.

like anything else, you need to :
upgrade your clutch.
make sure it is tuned properly
fasten your saftey belt

one of the major problems for all of these boost adding kits (JC, Minnam and Rimmer) has been getting parts from their suppliers.
from what I heard, Minnam has been waiting for months to get a shipment of Garrett's. Rimmer is in a similar predicarment.

hopefully Rallispec can also avoid this pitfall if they use widely available parts.
but then that could compromise kit quaility.
wow, I am glad I am not trying to build a turbo kit.
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Old 02-29-2000, 11:40 PM   #10
thepas
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Exclamation

Being that I had a First Gen Ford Lightning with a NICE Vortech supercharger setup, I know quite a lot about them. the thing I hate most is when your driving around normal, it feels like you have the damn Air conditioning on! this is cuz your still spinning that damn thing and it isn't helping horsepower at all, unlike a turbo kit that is free flowing when not in use.

Kyle
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Old 02-29-2000, 11:49 PM   #11
shiv
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Quote:
Originally posted by delectron:
Shiv: would it not be a good idea for me to run my 5w30 redline once I put the turbo in?
I don't see anything wrong with that. Depending on your climate, you may want to go with something a little bit thicker though. Either way, it's hard to go wrong with Redline.

shiv
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Old 03-01-2000, 10:33 AM   #12
delectron
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Shiv: I live about 20 minutes away from you. (Shon, silver RS, Teins with a 1" drop)
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Old 07-11-2000, 01:00 AM   #13
kaminari
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Wow, I was just reading up on Turbo stuff...

I used to go to High School in Danville!

anyways...

my question, is the Minnam kit you guys are referring to the same as the one in the current minnam site (http://www.minnamracing.com), which is now AMR and now the AMR turbo kit?

thanks.
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Old 07-11-2000, 05:18 AM   #14
brandon
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Just to clear up once again about power robbing with superchargers and turbochargers. Superchargers do use power from the engine to run but will always give back more power than they steal, even at idle with your foot off the gas. This is only not the case when there is a bypass valve fitted such as it is on the Ford Lightening. The valve is only used to improve fuel economy at partial throttle, and is disabled almost immediatly after you put your foot down.
Turbochargers do not free flow when not in use. The turbine in the exhaust stream needs just as much power to run as the supercharger. Some of this power is gained from heat (expansion through the turbine being the so called free energy) and some of it through backpressure. The added back pressure does rob power. If sticking a big turbine in the exhaust stream did not starve some power, then free flow exhaust headers would be a huge waste of money on NA vehicles.
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Old 07-11-2000, 04:13 PM   #15
wastgate
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So what is the most reliable and easy to install kit? I autocross so I need low end torque more than high end by far. Also, I'd like something that's not too hard to take off in case something goes wrong then I could still take advantage of my warranty.
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Old 07-11-2000, 04:59 PM   #16
kaminari
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I already understood that, Brandon, but thanks anyways!

What I'm wondering about is the differences between the Minnam kit and the AMR kit (since the Minnam site now redirects to the AMR one)

-kami
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Old 07-11-2000, 05:45 PM   #17
NickSTi
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Well Shiv will enter and say oh that is what gears are for. I will argue that is why he got beaten by an NA Impreza in an autoX with this big bad Turbo.
Maybe ARG will AutoX against Shiv and we will see what happens.
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Old 07-11-2000, 05:52 PM   #18
NickSTi
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For got to put my smilie face in the above post. Aww who cares! ANTI-SHIV like Randy!
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Old 07-11-2000, 07:39 PM   #19
rrsettgast
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Nick,
R U talking about me? I don't know if I like the title "Anti-Shiv"...kinda makes my existance depend on Shiv...but I digress.

I belive that an autocross is not really a matter of power, but instead a matter of suspension/tires and most importantly driver skill for that type of course. Hell, you never really get out of second gear. I know that Shiv was running stock springs/cheap struts, and street tires....while Kartboy was running a coil-over setup and R-compund tires. I also know that Kartboy is a verrry experienced autoXer, while shiv doesn't really like to autoX...or so he says

Whatever the case, the driver is te most important thing.
Randy
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Old 07-11-2000, 11:25 PM   #20
Greg Sharpe
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The smoking Minnam problem was due to an undersized oil-feed line. It caused the oil pressure at the turbo to rise high enough to bleed through the center bearing and burn as the oil hit the blazing turbine wheel. This is no longer the case with Minnams kitsas they have upsized that oil line. I have seen more than a few here on the east coast since they released the kit, and only the first few kits had the undersized oil line. Minnam has also designed a brace into the downpipe to take the wieght of the entire turbo assembly off of the header & stock exhaust hangers.
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Old 07-11-2000, 11:48 PM   #21
shiv
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Nick,

Since this me-getting-my-assed-kicked-by-an-NA-impreza topic seems to pop up periodically, I might as well give the whole story. Unlike a lot so S. Cal. gusy, I (and the rest of the Bay area folks) only had three runs that day. For me, the first run was for orientation. 70 something seconds. Middle of the pack. Second run was cleaner and nearly 10 seconds quicker. When I was done, I was told that I won the Impreza competition since everyone was essentially done. Yea! The Funny thing was that I was told this by the infamous NA Imprezer driver who ended up with the fastest time. As it turned out, he told me that so I would think that I had already won.

Thinking that I already won, I approached my last run like most people would. Having fun, sliding around and hitting cones. Not surprisingly, I ended up with a worse time. No big deal. I mean, I had already won, right? Wrong... moments later the NA driver came up to me, shows me his slip and said "Pysch! I really won. I beat you by less than a tenth of a second!" Oookay... so second place aint so bad.

No problem. That's racing, I guess. Of course, it would be silly of me to say that I would have been faster (and won) if I knew what the true standings were. After all, racing isn't about coulda shoulda woulda. But then again, it would be a bit unrealistic to say that I couldn't have chopped another few seconds off my time if I thought I had to. Afterall, I did shed several seconds between the first and second run. I dunno. But maybe these are the tricks and games that autoxers play to win. Whatever. I don't care. I just go to have fun. I didn't think I would still be hearing about it months later.... sheesh. Nor did I think I would ever be compelled to disclose the whole dirty story. Sorry Kartboy.

shiv

PS. BTW, It's not exactly a terrible thing to be edged out by an experienced autoxer driving a well set-up car on Hoosier autox tires. If power was everything, those 116hp Miatas wouldn't kick everyones butt.

[This message has been edited by shiv (edited July 12, 2000).]
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Old 07-11-2000, 11:59 PM   #22
STi Sev
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Lightbulb

Shiv good point about the auto-x and the last comment. Your a good sport..

hahaha Tom u sneaky bastard .. .U NEVER TOLD ME THAT SIDE OF THE STORY! hehe

remember shiv, I can make kartboy 'disapear' (you know what the cost is, *cough rx-7*cough* hehe

Just joking around..
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Old 07-12-2000, 12:00 AM   #23
STi Sev
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Quote:
posted by shon
Shiv: would it not be a good idea for me to run my 5w30 redline once I put the turbo in?


Shon,
What the hell, what happened to the bike.. "wasnt the bike fast enough?"
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Old 07-12-2000, 12:03 AM   #24
STi Sev
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Thumbs down

Just for the side note:

I've also been getting sick of this Shiv getting beat by N/A postings.

Not to name any names, but some people *cough nicksti,subepwr,MPREZYA...) like to bloat individual events into something they're not.. Why don't you guys go get a job with the media
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Old 07-12-2000, 12:07 AM   #25
Keiho
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The Minnam kit is different from the AMR kit. AMR is a totally different company, and they're still in the process of completing their turbokit. As far as JC sports goes, I think they've turned around their customer service reputation quite a bit from before.
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