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Old 05-10-2004, 04:03 PM   #26
ricochet
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coati
Are you kidding? That car was seriously b0rKed after nosing-in.
You can't see it in that pic, but the front strut bar was S-shaped from the impact...
All I claimed was that it landed on all four wheels...not that it did so without any damage...
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by ricochet
All I claimed was that it landed on all four wheels...not that it did so without any damage...
Well, it did limp off the track on all four wheels under its own dying "power" after the impact, so you were technically and ultimately correct.
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Old 05-10-2004, 04:55 PM   #28
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I was the taxi next to him. All I remember seeing was the underside of his car and saying OMFG!!! I saw him land and knew he was done. After the stage I went and checked with him and his motor was sitting about 2 inches higher on the passanger side. That really sucks, I think the company that made the course is to blame even though it doesnt really matter now.
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:02 PM   #29
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Since a few others brought up the Laughlin SuperSpecial and had generally good things to say about it; I can say for certain that the plan was to have the same crew make the SuperSpecial at Rim.

I don't know for certain if that is who did the work or not, but it was definately 'Plan A'

Mike
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:19 PM   #30
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let me say something on the issue of water.

there were many complaining about dust (if you read this post you will see that the drivers didnt like it either because they were sometimes blinded). one of those complaining was the CHP.... that is why on the 3rd SS stage after about the 12th set of cars was started i was instructed to warn the drivers that there will be a lot more water out there than previsouly. Yes this made for a much slicker course. but were any of you at last years rim??? I know i hated the dust, as there was always an area at the start or just in front of it that was bone dry... so i couldnt see the cars launch more than 25-30 feet.. after that i was blind. would i have wanted more water by the start... yes, but probably not as much as they put down... the problem with the whole water thing is that it drys so fast on the track in that wind and heat... that if you just put enough down to wet the ground... after 2 cars cross it it was all gone. if you noticed we had 1 water truck there friday night, and on sat we had 3...

if this track were to be farther from town/hwy.. there probably would have been no problems with dust, other than spectating and the trailing driver not being able to see much. I also think that by the time of the SS4 came around the straight away was in prime condition. it was moiste enough to handle the dust, but is wasnt quite like the snot on the back side of the course.
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Old 05-10-2004, 05:59 PM   #31
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Damn shame to see rally cars destroyed like that. Competitors are in a no win situation, they have to push to get a good stage time but are also under presure to "perform", especially so on spectator stages. This isnt X games supercross, it's rallying, there is no need for such extreme jumps, learning to take that kind of jump takes time, to have that in the presure cooker of a Super Special stage is unfair on competitors and is going to lead to disasters.

Unlike the SS of WRC events, no one gets to reccee the stage on Pro Rally, so extra care has to be taken to protect the crews and make it safe in such a high presure environment. No one wants to be thought of as a wuss for backing off before a jump, so when the jump is too extreme that will happen, you can guarantee it.

I am sure the organisors will be gutted that cars died like that and will have taken that onboard.
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:06 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnfelstead
Damn shame to see rally cars destroyed like that. Competitors are in a no win situation, they have to push to get a good stage time but are also under presure to "perform", especially so on spectator stages.
I don't think so, on the 4th SSS run, Pat was happy to let Leon run ahead, knowing he had the event sown up.

You can only make a few seconds at most up on a SSS (unless your competitor stuffs it), but you can easily DNF.

Definitely a stage to run fast but very clean.

Pat actually spun on his first run through the SSS but got going pretty quickly.

Glenn
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:13 PM   #33
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i am sure you know what i mean Glenn, especially so on the first stage of a rally. Your mind set changes markedly after 2 days of hard driving with the knowledge that if you make a silly mistake you've just lost the rally. At the start of a rally you are so full of adrenaline you are far less cautious and far more likely to be pumped up by the ocasion.
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:19 PM   #34
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Right -- I don't think every driver gets that and on the first two runs most drivers were pushing very hard.

A good time for the co-driver to say "let's dial it back on this stage and make sure we finish".

Glenn

PS I believe the competitors were allowed to walk the SS stage before their first run.
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:30 PM   #35
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This is what makes the sport such a dificult one to suceed at, so many small but important things to learn. Quite often you have to get it wrong before you get it right, that goes for organisors as much as competitors.
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:35 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by johnfelstead
i am sure you know what i mean Glenn, especially so on the first stage of a rally. Your mind set changes markedly after 2 days of hard driving with the knowledge that if you make a silly mistake you've just lost the rally. At the start of a rally you are so full of adrenaline you are far less cautious and far more likely to be pumped up by the ocasion.
Nevertheless, the vast bulk of the rally-ending auguring occured on subsequent jumps, not their initial one on Friday night.
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:36 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by Glenn Wallace
A good time for the co-driver to say "let's dial it back on this stage and make sure we finish".

Glenn

PS I believe the competitors were allowed to walk the SS stage before their first run.
It'd be a remiss co-driver who didn't say something like that, wouldn't it. They're still not likely to listen, but...

But to set the record straight, competitors were allowed to walk the course at any time it was not running.

- Christian
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:44 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by Coati
Nevertheless, the vast bulk of the rally-ending auguring occured on subsequent jumps, not their initial one on Friday night.
I would hope so too.
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:52 PM   #39
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As someone who has built a lot of jumps (not for cars, for snowboarders and skiers, I was a ski area groomer for ten years) it was very obvious to me that the two lanes had very different hits. I missed the early stage on Saturday but caught the other two times through it, so I missed seeing most of the problems cars were having, by the time I saw them hitting it, most were pretty conservative. What I saw was the right lane having a slightly steeper face with a little more kick. That would tend to toss the cars up a little more making the landing a little more exciting, if you build a snowboard hit like that, it rotates you back but cars are much different and it doesn't surprise me they were landing hard on the nose. If I had built the course, I would have definetly gotten down off my machine and looked at it from the ground level, it's not easy getting something like that right if you look at it from a high vantage point. Of course, if the jump had been symmetrical, it could easily have been a car breaker for both lanes. Just my two cents worth. The VW running with the hood up was well worth the admission price!
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Old 05-10-2004, 06:55 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by jonesi
[B(First overall was lost due to a $.50 hose clamp.) [/b]
No, actually, this was what lost first overall.

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Old 05-10-2004, 08:07 PM   #41
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was wondering how long it would take before a pic of that would show up.

Anyone get video of the thule car doing hte SS with the hood up?
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally posted by HighWayDrifter
was wondering how long it would take before a pic of that would show up.

Anyone get video of the thule car doing hte SS with the hood up?
Just between the Thule Jetta's sick jump, and the later hood run, the money spent to get into the SS area was more than worth it.
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Old 05-10-2004, 08:17 PM   #43
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ya the thule guys did an awesome job, the jump was executed perfectly, the driving with the hood up was awesome as well! wnated to go shake their hands but when i got back to their area they were still in the stands
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:52 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally posted by bjorn240
It'd be a remiss co-driver who didn't say something like that, wouldn't it. They're still not likely to listen, but...

But to set the record straight, competitors were allowed to walk the course at any time it was not running.

- Christian
it looks like you are getting travis to listen! congrats on a great run!!
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Old 05-11-2004, 12:48 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by greg donovan
it looks like you are getting travis to listen! congrats on a great run!!
I'm very impressed -- Travis really has some potential.

Christian, I felt a bit sad seeing you drive away while they lined up the top 3 cars on the podium. I feel like you guys deserved to be up there too.

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Old 05-11-2004, 12:57 AM   #46
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I thought the superspecial was alot of fun! The jump really wasnt that bad? I hit it at full speed everytime ............ but I have a low HP car .................... the surface at the start wasnt muddy like on friday ...... I think the Openclass cars had more grip to get more speed for that jump?
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Old 05-11-2004, 01:13 AM   #47
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This was as he was leaving, that's my wifes arm
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:10 PM   #48
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I agree, I had a great time in the SSS, I hope that becomes a regular thing because I know my crew loved it and they would be more willing to come help me if it was like that all the time.
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Old 05-11-2004, 02:40 PM   #49
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personally...

before the rally even started i was very uncomfortable with the idea of this "special stage"

after seeing the layout - i knew cars would DNF

this was a very very dangerous set up and i hope the organizers reconsider when setting something of this nature up in for future events.... from my point of view here are the major faults with the special stage:

*lanes were way way way too narrow
*there was no real division between lanes (very dangerous!)
*jump was too arched
*water crossing and back straight --->WAY TOO WET
(clogged my radiator causing overheating, let alone no grip)

Many cars crossed over into the other lane.... including me.
this is just damn dangerous - i feared for myself and my competitor once this occurred... and it was this fear that drove me to try to get back into my lane asap - at which point i high centered.... my fault for caring i guess... but it was just too damn dangerous at that point. all i can say is it's a good thing i was well ahead of Chris when this occurred or it would have been very very ugly.


Also...
REAL special stages (wrc) have a cross over so that the car in the outside lane doesnt get shafted if you drew the outside lane (like i did 3 times) you either got completely dusted out.. or played catch up trying to stay with the competitor on the shorter, inside lane....


All in all i see what the organizers were trying to do, and I understand where they were coming from, but it was NOT safe, NOT very well designed and could have been much better for everyone involved with a better layout.

I feel horrible for those that DNF'd on that stage.

Jamie
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Old 05-11-2004, 06:55 PM   #50
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From the pictures, the cars looked like they were indeed very very close together and narrow, and this with no divider. I can't imagine that being a smart or safe idea.

edit: but a well excuted SS would be a very good thing to have at a rally, especially in the US (to draw in specatators).
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