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Old 05-10-2004, 04:05 AM   #1
makofoto
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Default AX WRX w/ "New" Tein Flex ... Results & ?

I did a California Sports Car Club 2 day AX school this weekend ... with my "new" style Tein Flex Coil Overs, 550/450 ... and Rev-Lab 12.5:1 steering rack (not the super fast one) ... on my Street Modified '03 WRX Wgn, basically a Vishnu Stg. 1, with Hotchkis Sway Bars (hollow, equal to about 23 mm solid), Helix front endlinks, Hotchkis rear endlinks, 225 Azenis, strut tower bars, -3.5 front, -1.3 rear, 1/8th toe out front, zero toe rear, 13.5 ride heights, corner balanced ...

Before the Tein Flex's I had my pre-AX Tein Wgn Coil Overs ... 280/170 ... my set-up like the rear sway bar on full soft. Because of the soft springs ... I liked my air pressures hard ... as much as 48 front, 44 rear.

With the Tein Flex's I found I needed to put my rear sway bar full stiff, 39 psi in the front, 44 in the rear, front dampners at almost full soft, rears full stiff ... and the car still doesn't want to stick it's tail out!

Sure, in the slalom one could over do it and get the tail out ...

I tried a lot of different combinations over the weekend ... is where I ended up reasonable for trying to get more rotation. Particularly concerning how I adjusted my dampners? I guess I could dial out some of the rear neg. camber. IS THIS WHY YOU GUYS RECOMMEND SWAPPING THE SPRINGS SO THAT ONE HAS 450/550 ?

The Flex's only allow damping force adjustment (compression and rebound together) ...

I hear that the STI Lateral Links and trailing links that I have on order should help make the car easier to rotate ...

The Rev-Lab quick steering rack (w/ Whiteline bushings) is great ... but it's funny how quickly one gets use to it ... and very soon it just feels normal ... the way it should be.

My instructor ... who AX's an Evo VII, chipped for extra power to the rear, was basically impressed with my car ... thought my Rotora brakes, now with Ceramic pads, were some of the best brakes he's ever experienced!
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Last edited by makofoto; 05-10-2004 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:02 AM   #2
solo-x
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you are overdriving the corner entry, your front tire pressures are a little on the low side, and you have too much rear negative camber. dial some of the camber back, bump the front tires up to 42-44 or so, and slow down more at corner entry.

dailing out rear camber will free the car up quite quickly. so will putting in a little rear toe-out.

nate
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Old 05-10-2004, 09:04 AM   #3
KC
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What were your starting points with tire pressures, strut settings and swaybar?

How many runs did you do before you started making 'adjustments'?

I don't think one or two runs is enough to make a good determination of what settings need to be at.
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Old 05-10-2004, 01:58 PM   #4
makofoto
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Sure this was rushed ... but I needed to come up with a useable setting for our local event next weekend ... I had just had the coil-overs installed last Wed ... alignment on Friday.

I started with my old settings ... rear SB full soft, front doesn't adjust, tires @ 43/40 ... coil overs set to the middle setting ...

Using this set of "Over/Under Steering Corrections" http://www.rogerkrausracing.com/overundr.html

I started to stiffen up the rear dampners and soften the front ones. When the car didn't want to rotate very well ... I went to the middle setting of my rear sway bar on Sunday morning ... after being on the soft setting all through Saturdays school. Didn't have time to made changes on Saturday ... and on Saturday we did very short sections of track ... so it was difficult to make evaluations. At lunch on Sunday I went to the full stiff setting of the rear sway bar.

I also started to lessen front tire pressure and add rear tire pressure through out Sunday. We did about 15 runs on Sunday ...

For the first time I adjusted my toe when changing camber. From previous "studies" I knew that we gained 3/8th inch toe out when adding a degree of negative camber (actually that was with my NRX camber plates, the Tein ones are probably a bit different). I had had my alignment set for Zero toe at - 2.5 camber. Going to - 3.5 meant that I now had 3/8th toe out. I only wanted 1/8th toe out ... so I adjusted my (marked) steering arms one turn ... knowing that on Impreza's one half turn equals 1/8th" toe. Screwing the steering arm IN ... "sucks" the wheel back in ... taking out toe out ...

btw. my instructor was only .1 second faster then me on the two runs he did in my car ... but both times he ran into understeer hell also ... otherwise he would certainly have been over a second faster then me. I believe he set fast time of the day, 53+ seconds driving a slightly prepped M3 Coupe on R compounds ... the small hatchback model. My fast time was 57.2
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Old 05-10-2004, 02:54 PM   #5
makofoto
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-3.5 front camber ... looks like we finally are not going positive ...



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Old 05-10-2004, 06:39 PM   #6
solo-x
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do you know what phase of the corner the car was pushing in? could a driving adjustment have minimized the understeer?

the amount of change you made with just the dampers should have made a dramatic difference in the handling balance of the car. the car would have been substantially looser in transitions and corner entry but pushier at corner exit. mid-corner would obviously have remained unchanged. the tire pressure change should have freed the car up at mid-corner, but you would have paid a terrible price at entry. the swaybar change should have made the car looser everywhere.

typically if chassis adjustments seem ineffectual, there is either something broken or the chassis isn't the problem.

those pics look nice. the car is definitely working a lot better now. is there a reason you are so far away from the cones though?

nate
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Old 05-10-2004, 11:51 PM   #7
makofoto
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First photo I'm on line for a late apex ... see "racing line" on the track surface ... a lot of drivers where turning in too early and screwing up the entrance to the next part of the "S" curve ... 2nd photo ... I'm off line ... having probably entered the corner too fast/not hard enough on the brake.

Interesting ... I do believe you are correct in that the car was pushiest at corner exit ... turn in was pretty decent.

On Saturday, before I had made any changes to the full loose rear sway bar ... we had an opportunity to lap a skid pad. I could not get the tail out ... tried brake maneuvers, throwing the car around ... by this point I would have softened the front dampners and probably had the rears on full stiff ... but tires would have been around 44/40.

The problem is definitely the nut behind the wheel ... my instructor thought my car was fun to drive. I should have had him drive it more and evaluate it in depth ... don't know why I didn't push him to do that ...
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Old 05-11-2004, 09:22 AM   #8
solo-x
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unless you are on a really bumpy surface, the dampers will have no effect on steady state cornering.

make sure that the corner exit push isn't being caused by push in a different phase of the corner. i was addressing a corner exit push last year for the whole year. chassis adjustments were ineffectual. turned out i was over-driving the entry, starting the understeer at the beginning of the turn. the understeer would then carry through to mid-corner and finally to corner exit.

if you want the thing sideways in a small skidpad like that you'll have to take measures to reduce rear grip. a little rear toe out will help some, but not as much as rear camber. try a 1/16th rear toe out. if it still isn't enough rotation, start backing off the rear camber until the car handles how you want.

nate - tried lots of rear toe-out with lots of rear camber. it was bad, real bad...
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Old 05-12-2004, 11:51 PM   #9
AlpineFD
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here is my stock wrx at the same corners



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