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Old 05-11-2004, 02:41 PM   #1
Pi7467mp
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Talking Borla headers!! yea!

Ok so a while ago I posted a thread about WRX exhaust notes, and why my suby sounded nothig like a wrx. well I just put some borla headers on yesterday, and holy hell there is the boxer sound. You gotta love it..
Some people replied to the thread saying that they thinkit might be the headers that gave the boxer sound, but some people say it could be due to dohc heads.. well its the headers for sure..
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:04 PM   #2
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Glad you like them...
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Old 05-11-2004, 07:06 PM   #3
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I like mine too... got them from one of the best vendors for the RS hehehe
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:07 PM   #4
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I got TWE headers, but I have yet to hear how they sound
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Old 05-11-2004, 10:53 PM   #5
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what did yall pay for ur headers Im in the market since somehow mine is cracked. Im not hoping to pay over 200 and I loath the typical 4cyl sound I WANT BOXTER DAMNIT I know I payed for a boxter now why doesnt it sound like it then again its all stock now...
--zak--
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Old 05-11-2004, 11:35 PM   #6
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the reason you are getting a boxer sound is from the unequal header length, the unique sound comes from both how the engine fires and the fact that exhaust pulses are running into each other.

the TWE will prob take away some of the signature sound but you will gain much more performance.




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Old 05-11-2004, 11:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by PHATsuby

the TWE will prob take away some of the signature sound but you will gain much more performance.

That's what I'm lookin for
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Old 05-12-2004, 12:03 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aphex
I got TWE headers, but I have yet to hear how they sound
Thies? on an NA car would be cool.... On a turbo car... not so great.

http://www.xcceleration.com/images/t...rchargehdr.jpg


Best part about the borlas... they are cheep, and you got that warranty.
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Old 05-12-2004, 12:04 AM   #9
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i paid under 300 shipped. Thanks to Kastle!
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Old 05-12-2004, 10:46 AM   #10
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me too...

btw just to clarify, what performance difference will there be with unequal and equal.
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Old 05-12-2004, 11:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by totoherbs
Thies? on an NA car would be cool.... On a turbo car... not so great.

http://www.xcceleration.com/images/t...rchargehdr.jpg


Best part about the borlas... they are cheep, and you got that warranty.
no, I've never seen those before. I got these....


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Old 05-12-2004, 12:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by HOK
me too...

btw just to clarify, what performance difference will there be with unequal and equal.
with equal length, the exhaust pulses are equally separated, so they merge in order(dont collide) which speeds up exhaust flow, also you experience less energy lost because of less turbulence in the pipe so the turbo will receive a less molested exhaust pulse which it can take more energy from.

there is also the issue of primary pipe diameter. on a turbo engine you want exhaust velocity to the turbine as high as possible, so you would want a smaller pipe diameter than say an NA car. the borla's piping is both unequal length AND IMO too large to keep up, or increase velocity, but sacrifices are made to make a cheaper, more universal header.

Aphex-why havent you put those bad boys on?

Ben
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Old 05-12-2004, 02:25 PM   #13
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I'm slowly but surely doing a buildup, so as soon as I get my heads back, it should all come together hopefully quickly, I'm hoping for the end of may or middle of june at the latest. This is what happens when you do all the work yourself, and impulse buy more products but I'm nearing completion, and am excited to drive my car again, it's been on jackstands for over a year now.... sorry to hijack the thread but here's a short page I put up (stole from my friend) with a list of all the mods going in..
http://thetwin314.mine.nu/subaru/
sorry if it's slow, it's my own personal web server at home.
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Old 05-12-2004, 03:34 PM   #14
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I think I've said this before. Monster buildups have been known to use stock exhaust manifolds. (Well, most of them anyways)

Theres gotta be a good reason why they stick with it!
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wedge
I think I've said this before. Monster buildups have been known to use stock exhaust manifolds. (Well, most of them anyways)

Theres gotta be a good reason why they stick with it!
they ran out of money



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Old 05-12-2004, 04:23 PM   #16
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well with nothing else changed, just slap on the TWE headers on a ludespeed kit. The TWE headers made more power throughout the entire run over the stock header. max 15hp increase. Of course I won't be able to compare them to stock after the build. but I definitely know they won't hurt me. only thing to worry about would be cracking, but I"m not too worried about that. TWE are top knotch guys. it's the same design as stock, but it will just flow so much better due to the bends.

I suppose I could always slap on the stockers, and then the TWE's to see what the difference is. But I'm not too concerned with it. but if it would put an end to all this "stock header is the best" debate, I just may have to
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:28 PM   #17
Pi7467mp
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maybe someone should make a better flowing "turbo" manifold, since all the aftermarket stuff sucks.. I still like my headers, I don't really care about the power increase as much as I do the sound they give!!!
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Old 05-12-2004, 04:29 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Aphex
I'm slowly but surely doing a buildup, so as soon as I get my heads back, it should all come together hopefully quickly, I'm hoping for the end of may or middle of june at the latest. This is what happens when you do all the work yourself, and impulse buy more products but I'm nearing completion, and am excited to drive my car again, it's been on jackstands for over a year now.... sorry to hijack the thread but here's a short page I put up (stole from my friend) with a list of all the mods going in..
http://thetwin314.mine.nu/subaru/
sorry if it's slow, it's my own personal web server at home.
I read your page and got the the "blown tranny... Soon to come"
I was like Wth? HAHA
I hope mine keeps running strong
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Old 05-12-2004, 10:44 PM   #19
zakats
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nice to see someone else running a mine.nu domain my friend was running an ftp and http on that server the http was using apache also whatever i just had a geek impulse
--zak--
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Old 05-13-2004, 12:53 AM   #20
Aphex
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yep, been running my personal web/ftp server for me and my friends for a number of years now..... this is really starting to get off track.

in terms of turbo manifolds for our cars.... in my personal opinion (although some could say I'm biased) I would say TWE to be the best design, without going full custom.
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Old 05-13-2004, 08:02 AM   #21
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Equal length will generaly take longer to spool the turbo because of the longer path the exhaust has to take. So they will be good for more top end power. I would just go with whatever gets the gas to the turbo quickest and hot. You have a turbo, use it. The wrc car uses un-equal length...

Quote:
Originally posted by Aphex
no, I've never seen those before. I got these....


Pics no work...

Quote:
Originally posted by Wedge
I think I've said this before. Monster buildups have been known to use stock exhaust manifolds. (Well, most of them anyways)

Theres gotta be a good reason why they stick with it!
Yup.... and this quote helps show why. Port matching the stockers is many times better then going with an aftermarket header. You know its going to fit, not crack when you drive threw a puddle of cold water, or lose any heat, and its got a nice short path to the turbo. IMO there isnt one aftermarket header out that is realy worth it. TRP has been using port matched headers in his builds....

The only reason to go with an aftermarket header is you have a vf sized turbo and you want more power at the top of the rev range.

Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
headers will add a solid 500 rpm worth of boost onset on a big turbo setup. If cold they will add around 800 rpm. I have owned/tested/tuned these headers. Forget the wrapping.. Its not going to help that much.. Better yes but not the solution.

Remove the GT's and sell them to someone with a smaller turbo. They work very well on stock turbo setups.

Port match your Stock iron manifolds. lay the gaskets down, Mark them, Grind the iron down with a Dremel. Wrap the Cross over pipe and put all heat shields back on. Order an upipe from Coastal Dyno or have him modify the one you have (I am doing this next time mine comes out). Bingo... 500+ rpm increase in boost onset, probably 20-40 ft lbs of trq on the bottom end and no more heat issues.

I just recently went through this on my car... Removed GT's and installed Stockers that I ported myself. Its somewhere around 500-700 rpm faster to get 14 psi with no apparent loss in top end. Off idle is even stronger.
Some basic manifold info...

Quote:
You want the exhaust velocity to be high upstream of the turbine (i.e. in the header). You'll notice that primaries of turbo headers are smaller diameter than those of an n/a car of two-thirds the horsepower. The idea is to get the exhaust velocity up quickly, to get the turbo spooling as early as possible. Here, getting the boost up early is a much more effective way to torque than playing with tuned primary lengths and scavenging. The scavenging effects are small compared to what you'd get if you just got boost sooner instead. You have a turbo; you want boost. Just don't go so small on the header's primary diameter that you choke off the high end.
http://www.vishnutuning.com/exhaust101.htm
Quote:
You want the least restriction after the turbo as possible for both top end power and quick spool-up. Careful attention has to be paid to keep velocity high before the turbo and in the exhaust housing of the turbo to spool the turbo up as quickly as possible while not choking off the exhaust gasses on the top end.

The header can be simpler in some ways than a non-turbo header. Bigger dividends can be had by getting the exhaust gasses to the turbo with the least amount of restriction, highest velocity, and the most heat rather than worrying about a tuned equal length design. It would be optimal to make an equal length header, but the packaging of the WRX make a tuned equal length header difficult to design. This helps explain why we usually get near identical results from a factory header when compared to the aftermarket ones we have tested thus far. The factory header gets the gasses to the turbo as quickly as possible and goes a good job of keeping the heat in. Aftermarket headers tend to take a longer path and loose quite a bit of heat in the process. Also, most have a poor collector design that is s a byproduct of the unique packaging of the WRX. In this case a good collector does play a more important role than the length of the pipes. If all of the gasses ram together at a steep angle it causes a lot of turbulence, creates backpressure, slows velocity, and tends to make a mess of things before the turbo, which is the worst spot for inefficiency on a turbo charged car. A good header design would be something like a 4 into 1 design that uses castings or good thermal coatings as much as possible to keep heat in and would also get the gasses to the turbo as quickly as possible. The collector would have to be longer than the ones I have seen and the transitions nice and smooth. The main problem comes from trying to make it package well into the constraints of the turbo Subaru. A well designed header would likely require the header to up-pipe connection to have different flange points than factory, so it would not be as easy to sell in header and up-pipe pieces. The WRX is a hard car to design a proper header for, to say the least. It is very hard to improve what the factory has already done.
http://www.cobbtuning.com/tech/exhaustdesign/
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Old 05-13-2004, 09:21 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wedge
I think I've said this before. Monster buildups have been known to use stock exhaust manifolds. (Well, most of them anyways)

Theres gotta be a good reason why they stick with it!
You must be talking about a stock WRX manifold being used in the "Monster" buildups?? Have you seen the stock RS headers? They are no where near as nice as the stock WRX headers.
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Old 05-13-2004, 10:22 AM   #23
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I agree.. They serious looked like a welding student had to get something done on time in order to pass the welding exam.. They are piss poor.
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Old 05-13-2004, 11:15 AM   #24
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How about that.... "kink"
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Old 05-13-2004, 11:21 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boostup!
You must be talking about a stock WRX manifold being used in the "Monster" buildups?? Have you seen the stock RS headers? They are no where near as nice as the stock WRX headers.
Clark is tuning my car tomorrow, we'll see how good the stock manifold is.
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