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Old 05-24-2004, 12:41 PM   #1
Oldalfaguy
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Cool Need Advice - A Stock STI - shocks

Just started Autoxing and haven't a clue where to start looking for AS legel shocks. Any ideas would REALLY be appreciated. I'd prefer something that would be adjustable back to a spine-friendly setting after the racing weekend. Gas-charged?
Thanks in advance,
John
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Old 05-24-2004, 12:59 PM   #2
crystalhelix
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Koni makes inserts that are tunable and A Stock legal

Justin
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Old 05-24-2004, 01:16 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by crystalhelix
Koni makes inserts that are tunable and A Stock legal

Justin
... that costs an arm and a leg unfortunately.

One cost effective modification: front anti-roll bar.
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Old 05-24-2004, 02:06 PM   #4
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next to the cost of tires you will be going through, the shocks are nothing
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Old 05-24-2004, 02:40 PM   #5
Watkinsm3
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmott
next to the cost of tires you will be going through, the shocks are nothing
ain't that the truth.
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Old 05-24-2004, 06:27 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmott
next to the cost of tires you will be going through, the shocks are nothing
Word!

Front swaybar and the shocks.
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Old 05-25-2004, 07:30 PM   #7
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Thanks for all your input.
So, go with the Koni's? I suspected they made were adjustable but I wasn't sure.
About the front ARB, will this tighten up the front end too much and make the rear loose?
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Old 05-25-2004, 09:57 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldalfaguy
About the front ARB, will this tighten up the front end too much and make the rear loose?
Less body roll, faster turn-in response. At most a mild increase in NVH. It shouldn't make the rear loose...just the front less pushy.

Last edited by DrBiggly; 05-26-2004 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 05-25-2004, 11:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by DrBiggly
Less body roll

No... Shocks will change the rate of roll but not the end amount of roll.
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Old 05-26-2004, 12:04 AM   #10
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I was referring to the anti-roll bar; should have been more clear. You are correct on the shocks.

(I think in LIFO so that's how I answer a series of questions.)
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Old 05-26-2004, 12:05 AM   #11
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Edited to reflect what I was thinking but didn't say correctly.

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Don't listen to what I say, listen to what I mean!
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Old 05-26-2004, 12:10 AM   #12
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Oldalfaguy,

What experience do you have in Autocross? How much in the STi. If you have little of either just run the car for a while until you can drive it bone stock.
The second step would be the big fat front sway bar. The reason for the front sway is to lessen negative camber loss up front. This will help "plant" the front end so that you steering inputs are more effective. While this seems counter-intuitive to lessen understeer it works on the Impreza chassis quite well.
The third adjustment would be to play with your toe settings. Alothough I am not sure that the STi really needs this help since it has instant torque and a DCCD. Maybe 1/8 front and rear toe out. From my few runs in the STi it does not seem to have the exaggerated problems of the stantdard WRX. From that point the Koni struts would be good ONLY if they were heavier than the STi struts. I am not sure what the bump and rebound rates are on the STi struts, although I am sure someone has them on the board somewhere. If you really want to get competitive you can have the Koni struts made into double adjustable and play with your bump settings to help your initial turn in and rebound to help plant the car in sweepers. Tom Hoppe seems to be one of the better guys to consult on stock WRX's. Larry Fine could let you know a bit more on the STi than I since he is racing one in PA right now. Matt W is fast in his and he is on stock struts at this point I believe. (Are you Matt?)

Dave (Scoobie Doogie)
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Old 05-26-2004, 10:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scoobie Doogie
Matt W is fast in his and he is on stock struts at this point I believe. (Are you Matt?)

Dave (Scoobie Doogie)
I am indeed on stock stuts... but only because I don't have the dough right now. I fully support the Koni custom double adjustable route. Just the downtime of sending out the struts to get them modified or the cost of a set for them to modify.

-Matt
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Old 05-26-2004, 12:37 PM   #14
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I run mine bone stock. It still kicks hella ass out of the box. I pull good times. Just work on tire pressures. I am using 39 up front and 34-35 in the back. I will be getting a front sway soon. Weird effect on STi's the front sway helps to keep the camber in check.

Peace,
Justin

www.selgp.com for info
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Old 05-26-2004, 01:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scoobie Doogie
Oldalfaguy,

What experience do you have in Autocross? How much in the STi. If you have little of either just run the car for a while until you can drive it bone stock.
Dave,
Thanks for the input. I'm a novice Autoxer but have a lot of experience in club racing a few years back. I've been doing well so far in A Stock (2 firsts and a third) but wanted to get the handling down as I've heard the S2000's will be in A stock next year and don't want to get spanked TOO badly. Just want to try to get the d@#$ understeering under control. The car seems to plow like a pig in higher speed tight corners and would like to make it more neutral. Have been playing with tire pressures (40fr / 35-38 rr) but am at a loss beyond this. I also had alignment adjusted to -1.5 fr and -1 rr with 1/8 toe at the rear also. The ARB does sound valid and I think I'll try one.
I was also thinking the same thing about the rates of the stock shocks and the Koni's. Maybe it won't be that much of a diff but the adjustability may make the sale.
Thoughts?
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Old 05-26-2004, 05:31 PM   #16
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04 s2000s are already in AS.
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:50 PM   #17
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The Koni struts do wonders for the WRX off the shelf because the stock WRX struts are soft. I am at a loss regarding the stock STi struts though. Matt W is certainly for the Koni struts though. I think for it to be REALLY worth it you will have to get them custom valved. Maybe 10-15% more bump and 20% rebound. The best thing to do is get them made into double adjustables AND increase the valving. My reasoning is 1. the car is heavy 2. you can put a lot of r-tire on the car

The only way to get rid of the plowing at this point is to get a fat front swaybar (26mm whiteline) and get some more seat time in the car.
Remember that this car was tuned by the Japanese, not the US. They prefer higher spring rates in the front and we like them in the rear. The STi, like the stock WRX needs to be slowed a bit more into the turn and accellerate out hard. (read: use the Brembos!) The WRX sucks at this in mid-sized courses but really kicks butt in very tight 1st gear stuff. One of the oddities of the Impreza chassis is that it does not like to do ANYTING off power. The only way the car turns well is under power. Not necessairly full throttle but some power needs to be pushing the drivetrain. You'll have to learn to do everything early. Brake early, accellerate early. Eventually you will get a feel for what the car is doing and you'll find your braking threshold for the STi. Obviously I don't have a lot of time in the STi but I do have 3 years in a stock WRX. Your braking will certainly be much later the the stock WRX is. Keep this in mind when you drive.
When you add the swaybar and Koni struts you will be able to brake later because you will have less negative camber loss going into and through the turn. Your slaloms will be scary fast too. I think it is important to learn the basic characteristics of the car first and THEN add parts. Just my opinion though.

Tom Hoppe, KC, do you have anything to add here? You were quite fast in your stock days I am sure you know better than most.

Dave

Disclaimer: All statements above are solely based on my 3 years of autocross experience in my scoobie and 3 years of reading the boards and two Evo schools. (means I don't know a whole lot but I stole a lot of knowledge from "these here" boards and Evo insructors)
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Old 05-26-2004, 10:10 PM   #18
Oldalfaguy
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Quote:
Originally posted by afpdl
04 s2000s are already in AS.
Uh oh. I guess I've just been lucky... :>)
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Old 05-26-2004, 10:24 PM   #19
Watkinsm3
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Quote:
Originally posted by Scoobie Doogie

Disclaimer: All statements above are solely based on my 3 years of autocross experience in my scoobie and 3 years of reading the boards and two Evo schools. (means I don't know a whole lot but I stole a lot of knowledge from "these here" boards and Evo insructors)
3 years of experience... stolen or not... sounds good to me! As for the Konis? Yes, in my opinion for a nationaly competitive car, they should most certainly be custom double adjustables. Especially due to the lack of known development. I'd start them off valved to approximately the same rates as the stock struts with both bump and rebound increasing from the stock curves via adjustments.

From here I'm just speculating (as I havn't experimented with this yet) but... you'll want a little more bump in the front than the rear because of the bigger front bar. Too much in the rear will make back harder to plant so be careful how much you put back there (hence the stock curves with additional adjustment). Just enough front rebound to get better transition and turn in without making them too stiff that you'll overlighten the inside front or cause the car to start washing out midcorner. I think a little extra rebound in the rear should give good rotation on entry but still allow the back to plant for exit (assuming its not too bumpy!).

I dunno... just thinking outload really. I havn't done the stock class car before and my last car was FWD... Any one have any thoughts on my ramblings?

-Matt
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Old 05-27-2004, 04:37 AM   #20
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Matt,

I think I've ran with you before in Harrisburg or Philly. I ran in DS with Alan Pozner and John Epstein. I am actually going the other way, back to FWD for a bit. I have been doing well in the WRX but every time I drive an ITR I am WAY faster than I am in the scoobie. So I'm off to ITR land. I think I can put in a good showing at Divisionals and Nationals. The last time I drive an ITR was with a good local competitor and I bested him by over a second in his car, that I have NO seat time in. I'll get an STi in a couple of years and play in BSP or SM maybe.

Dave
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