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Old 05-19-2000, 06:18 PM   #1
Tim Prudence
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Location: san diego, ca USA
Post Do I need a front sway bar?

I have been running without a front sway bar for about two weeks. My car has an 18mm rear bar combined with a full Tein HA coilover kit. I haven't really noticed much of a difference in handling since the swaybar was removed, maybe a little oversteer but hardly noticeable (and nothing I couldn't get rid of by adjusting the front and rear shock rates and tire pressures).

Do you think that I'm losing any performance by not replacing the front swaybar?
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Old 05-19-2000, 06:55 PM   #2
rrsettgast
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Yes
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Old 05-19-2000, 09:11 PM   #3
Boxer4Racing
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Smile

I am still working on finding one Tim. Just don't crash before I come up with one

Dale Teague (Teague's Auto)
http://www.teaguesauto.com

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Old 05-19-2000, 09:29 PM   #4
Tim Prudence
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I find a WRX bar, the only problem is that I don't have the endlinks or mounting bracket. I think the shop lost these when putting on the crossmember *$%^!
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Old 05-19-2000, 11:17 PM   #5
8Complex

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Honestly... I don't think you really need a front bar. You have the suspension, this helps with spring rates and such, which in turn helps with roll by itself. The sway bar just decreases the roll even more by raising the spring rates on the side of compression during a turn. It will make the car roll less, but do you NEED it for everyday type driving situations? No. Racing? Yeah, you'd be best off with it.
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Old 05-21-2000, 01:43 AM   #6
Tim Prudence
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I can still dial in understeer by adjusting my front shocks by only four clicks (out of 24) harder than the rear. This seems to tell me that I don't need a front bar at all. It fun to able to really SNAP the rear around when you want to. Maybe I should take the 18mm rear bar off, and go swaybarless.
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Old 05-21-2000, 07:45 AM   #7
Wreckleford
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What advantage does runnning without the bar give you?
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Old 05-21-2000, 08:39 AM   #8
Mr. Gasket
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Tim, you should go for a 21 or higher rear bar to keep that understeer at minimum. you will never get rid of it though.
The rule is simple: if you understeer then either soften the front (spring, shock, tire press or bar) or tighten up the rear(s,s or b)you have to soften the side that is misbehaving.
To fix oversteer you need to soften the rear.
It's a matter of front=rear balance.
Learn first on how to drive hard, I mean real control, you will know when things start to happen slower and give you more time to think during a lap instead of react, then start setting up your suspension (with those coilovers you'll some times get confused but get a GOOD book. I'd recommed Carroll Smith DRIVE TO WIN). Get some good rubber and no one will stop you!
If you need some extra tips, e-mail me:
jgarufi@sprynet.com

Jose
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Old 05-21-2000, 05:45 PM   #9
Tim Prudence
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The advantage of having no front bar is that my front suspension is working completely independantly, at the cost of a little front body roll. But really, even with heavy lateral g's the front doesn't seem to roll much at all. I guess that I'll slap another front bar on, just because everyone has told me to do it.

Then again, I could just pull my rear bar off and sell it, and adjust everything with spring and dampening rates. Most track cars don't use anti-roll bars, do they?
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Old 05-21-2000, 05:50 PM   #10
tom@kartboy
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Post

tim
i'd say 99.999% of track cars use anti-sway bars
heck the trans-am car i used to work on had a 1 7/8" front bar that was cockpit adjustable.
try the j-yard in sacto.
tom@kartboy.com
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Old 05-21-2000, 10:32 PM   #11
8Complex

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Post

Actually if you want to get technical... if your car's chassis is designed correctly, you won't need a sway bar. The roll center will be much more close to the center of gravity and you won't get nearly the body roll as normal.

Tim, if you set it up without sway bars and it drives well for you, more power to you. On my car, since I have no suspension, I have my rear bar set to 22mm and it seems to fit my driving style perfectly.
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Old 05-22-2000, 10:32 AM   #12
Mr. Gasket
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The reason for the anti sway bar, is to be able to fine tune that side of the car, for example, in a bumpy circuit you have to go away from stiff springs as that would make loose grip when going over these bumps, but then when going soft, you will be fine on the bumps but too soft for turning, that's when you use a bar to complement your shock/spring combo.
This is just one example...
I personally belive that you need a front and rear bar, again, as fine tuning devices.
Race cars have bars, ALL have front ones. You only take the rear one when raining or when you need more bite at the rear.
In Karting, we use a front bar and rear, although they do not work with the torsion principle, the stiffen the chassis. Now the front one is not adjustable but the rear is, it's the kind of that looks like a blade and by turning it it changes its stiffness properties. Then when it rains we put the chassis as soft as we can, to make it flex more and grip by taking both bars out.

Jose

PS. by having a front bar, you do not have to worry about going over kerbs also...think about it.
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