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Old 05-12-2004, 04:49 PM   #1
steve
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Default I really, really, really want one of these.

http://www.quicktimeperformance.com/Downpipe/

Quick Time Electric Cutout Down Pipe
Our QTEC Down Pipe opens up your exhaust with the flip of a switch. Eliminating back pressure. Allowing your turbo to spool freely and gain the power your car is capable of.

With a turbo car the less you have back pressure the better the turbo exhales. So no back pressure is good back pressure. With out the problem of back pressure your turbo can really spool up faster and put down the numbers. The only way that this can be done is with an open down pipe. This is great for the track but not feasible for the street. So that is why we're building a line of down pipes for turbo cars and trucks. With our downpipe you can retain your factory cat back quiet daily drive then unleash the power with the flip of a switch.

Do not think that any turbo back exhaust system can produce more horse power or torque than an open down pipe. Look at any Turbo Race Car today and see what cat back they run. The answer, they do not. They just run short pipe off the turbo. They know what works and with the QTP Down Pipe on your car you can too.


Dyno Numbers on a 2003 WRX Gained 21 wheel horse power and 24 pounds of torque at 4400 rpm open vs closed QTEC. This is on a car that only put down 197/200 on the dyno. Giving the turbo to spool freely and fast.



I love the idea of being able to run an open pipe when needed, but stock exhaust when the wife is driving, or I'm going through Richmond.

I wonder how much it costs?
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:05 PM   #2
shogunmy04
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find any prices yet?
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Old 05-12-2004, 05:17 PM   #3
steve
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About $500usd, but I sent an email through my shop in the hopes that I can buy a couple of them at a lower price using a dealer discount (and maybe be able to distribute locally ). As it stands, the Koni's killed my WRX budget, but next month I'll be ready to p/u one of these downpipes. I would love to open the DP up next to that PITA turbo beetle who always tries to holeshot me on the lougheed
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Old 05-12-2004, 06:39 PM   #4
KIMUTAKU
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there was a video that some guy posted a while back..

he had this dp on an sti and it was mean as hell!

of course very loud too..
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:02 PM   #5
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Yeah, that's about right.

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Unless your ECU also responds to that same switch, it's not going to do much other than make a lot of noise.

The factory ECU takes weeks to learn a new map; you'd have to have something that can switch maps on the fly when you open up your ... err .. pipe.

All of which seems like a pain in the ass when compared with NAWSSSsss...
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by hypa
I would love to open the DP up next to that PITA turbo beetle who always tries to holeshot me on the lougheed
Watch out because they're coming out with one for the 1.8t as well.
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Old 05-12-2004, 07:12 PM   #7
jackwei
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saw something similar on summitracing.com a few years ago and posted it on nasioc (well i-club back then). it was like a reverse Y that you can put somewhere in your exhaust... was like $20 US. of course u had to custom the exhaust with that in it...
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Old 05-12-2004, 10:28 PM   #8
shogunmy04
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have anyone heard any down falls of having the QTEC?
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Old 05-12-2004, 11:15 PM   #9
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Yeah, that's about right.

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Did you read my post?
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Old 05-13-2004, 11:50 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Necromancer
Unless your ECU also responds to that same switch, it's not going to do much other than make a lot of noise.

The factory ECU takes weeks to learn a new map; you'd have to have something that can switch maps on the fly when you open up your ... err .. pipe.




No offence, but I think you're wrong.
The factory ECU holds a lot of control over the motor, but physics state that an open DP will allow more air to flow through the motor, thus making more power. With CEL fixes, this would make for a great mod.

Don't base your opinions on what you read, since a lot of it is regurgitated by people who have never done this sort of mod. I happen to know of a few cars that benefitted right away from DP upgrades, which leads me to believe that the car still follows the same rules as other turbo cars. The DP/UP will be the first step, but understand that someday a user tunable ecu will reside in my passenger compartment.


Quote:
All of which seems like a pain in the ass when compared with NAWSSSsss...
I agree 100%, but my wife won't give me any peace if I have a tank of "explosive and flammable gas" in my hatch.
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Old 05-14-2004, 05:36 AM   #11
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Yeah, that's about right.

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Quote:
Originally posted by hypa
No offence, but I think you're wrong.
None taken, it's always nice to have a little debate.

Quote:
The factory ECU holds a lot of control over the motor, but physics state that an open DP will allow more air to flow through the motor, thus making more power. With CEL fixes, this would make for a great mod.
True, turbo cars make more power with more flow, but my argument is that it wouldn't do so efficiently nor elegantly with this setup. Moreover, the ECU learns all the time, and by opening and closing the exhaust you'll "teach" it a totally messed up map that will at best make the car run rich in "normal" mode probably also detonate in "open" mode.

Both of us are bench racing, of course, and I'd love to eat my words if somebody can prove long-term reliable power on demand with this thing.

Quote:
Don't base your opinions on what you read
Actually, I don't, since the signal to noise ratio on all the Subaru forums has just gone down over the years. I base my opinions on people I know and stuff I've seen. Joel Gat, for instance, ran headerless on his 1.8L -- it made Harleys cower in fear and didn't make any power at all. No relation to turbo setups, of course.

Quote:
I happen to know of a few cars that benefitted right away from DP upgrades
By "right away" you mean immediately upon ignition, or after the customary ECU reset?

Quote:
understand that someday a user tunable ecu will reside in my passenger compartment
I still think this should be the first mod, not the last.

Quote:
(NAWS)I agree 100%, but my wife won't give me any peace if I have a tank of "explosive and flammable gas" in my hatch.
Nitrous oxide isn't flammable, and it's only explosive in the sense that a balloon is (compressed gas).

Thinking about it, this downpipe idea and nitrous systems have a lot in common. Both require on-demand extra fuel delivery and timing adjustments to make reliable power.

The difference is that downpipe design is gonna become unreliable in six months to a year in our weather. I'll bet my 2002 WRX service manual set on it.
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Old 05-14-2004, 12:15 PM   #12
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Wow Necromancer, I must say that I appreciate you taking the time to reply in such a concise manner. Not enough people take the time to create worthwhile replies.


Now to the meat of the subject...

Quote:
Moreover, the ECU learns all the time, and by opening and closing the exhaust you'll "teach" it a totally messed up map that will at best make the car run rich in "normal" mode probably also detonate in "open" mode
My biggest worry about doing any mods to the WRX is the ecu. It's a wonderful piece of technology that will react to modifications by altering it's fuel map, but it is also a hinderance since it's been tuned to be not only effecient, but safe. I really don't need Aircare breathing down my neck because of a CEL.

Quote:
By "right away" you mean immediately upon ignition, or after the customary ECU reset?
Most of the WRX's that I know of who have done UP/DP mods have seen gradual gains over time (and the ecu reset, a powerful tool in itself). I surmise that this is the ecu learning how one drives, and altering the map as such. I was under the impression that the ecu has the ability to change on the fly if you run a low octane fuel, or there is more heat in the EGT than before, so why wouldn't it be able to sense that there is more flow and add more fuel? Also, the WRX runs rich under WOT. If anything, I can see EGT's going down with an open DP since there isn't as much restriction. To me, it becomes straight physics.

Quote:
I still think this should be the first mod, not the last
Trust me, I'm looking into it.

With that said though, A/F ratio is important to keep combustion temps in check. However, when tuning A/F ratios one won't see huge power gains on the dyno. I've seen a difference of 3% in power based on an A/F of 10.5:1 vs 12:1 The real power comes from adjusting the timing curve, something we can't do without a tunable system. A more aggressive timing curve mated to this special DP with cutout would be the secret to big power, IMHO. More combustion combined with a larger escape makes hypa smile

Quote:
Nitrous oxide isn't flammable, and it's only explosive in the sense that a balloon is (compressed gas).

The "flammable and explosive" comment was a direct smack at my wife, who can't understand that teh nawss doesn't make blue fire come out your tailpipe, and people who use teh nawss won't be jumping bridges, etc..... I understand the effects and nature of nitrous, but for some reason, she refuses to accept it.
crazy woman.
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Old 05-14-2004, 12:17 PM   #13
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I'm still waiting to talk to these guys.
I sent an email, they replied with "call us", I called, they were too busy to talk and asked me to call back.

Whats up with that?!?

Anyway, if the internet is correct, then this part will be in the $599usd range. Way too rich for my blood, since I can go with a UP/DP combo for a bit more.
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Old 05-14-2004, 12:25 PM   #14
sp00n32
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I recall my dad had a setup like this on his old camaro, it was a mechanical lever if I remember correctly.
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Old 05-14-2004, 12:31 PM   #15
AllWheelDrift
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Quote:
Originally posted by hypa
I was under the impression that the ecu has the ability to change on the fly if you run a low octane fuel, or there is more heat in the EGT than before, so why wouldn't it be able to sense that there is more flow and add more fuel?
No WRX specific knowledge here, but the cars I've worked with in the past have altered the timing (added retard) in those situations rather than adjusting fueling.

However, being a MAF based system which actually measures the air coming in, it should notice the extra intake air flow and add fuel accordingly.
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Old 05-14-2004, 01:00 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by hypa
The "flammable and explosive" comment was a direct smack at my wife
My reward for reading this thread.
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Old 05-14-2004, 01:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by AllWheelDrift
No WRX specific knowledge here, but the cars I've worked with in the past have altered the timing (added retard) in those situations rather than adjusting fueling.
Depending on the A/F ratio you're running, one can adjust the timing or the amount of fuel. In my case with the integra, I was seeing good A/F ratios of 12.5:1 under WOT, low boost (9psi). My plugs looked good, but I was hearing some knock at higher rpm and boost levels. If I had removed timing in the whole boost range, I would have tuned out the knock, but also tuned out a lot of midrange power. Also, if I had added fuel, the combustion temps would have gone down, but in many situations, adding fuel would have not fixed the knock. Each car has it's own recipe as far as tuning fuel and timing together to make the best power.

Quote:
However, being a MAF based system which actually measures the air coming in, it should notice the extra intake air flow and add fuel accordingly.
Actually a MAP system is the best for this because the ecu reads how much pressure is actually in the motor, as opposed to the MAF which basically assumes that the air that came in is the same air that will go out. The MAF should allow for automatic changes to be done though, which is why UP/DP combos make good power about a week after they're installed.

I see the point that Necromancer makes though in that I would have to run open DP for a few days in an effort to allow the ecu to learn what the hell is going on. This is where a UTEC or equivalent would come into play.
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