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Old 05-14-2004, 05:50 PM   #1
commador
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Wink Turboing my 2.5 *searches performed*

Ok, Ive searched as much as possible, so, IBgosearchmore.....

Anyhow, I want some boost on my car. I think my mind is made up that I am getting a FAT stage 1 kit, (used or new) and run it for a while, and then save for a link. Now, I will not go higher than the kits 5psi setting. Never, not now, not later. I cant afford the problems it may cause. What I want to know, will the FAT GC8 stage 1, with a wrx intercooler, running 91+ octane, go boom on a 2.5 with 130k miles? I know its high milage, but the enigne is still very strong, and well taken care of. Ive read of others on here with2.5's running much higher boost without full electronic engine management, so if it will work, I could just save the 1000+ on the link, and get my car painted (which it needs too)

I will have a boost gague, AF and EGT to monitor things. IF the kit works, and is all good, what temps should I look out for on the EGT??
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Old 05-14-2004, 06:46 PM   #2
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You *should* be O.K. at 5psi. 130k isn't really that bad on a stock motor... if anything the extra bearing and cylinder wear will be good for it, turbo motors are generally run with looser tolerances. EGT over 15k = not so good over 16k = bad.
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Old 05-14-2004, 07:55 PM   #3
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Kaboom! Blam! Splat! Yikes!

Good luck though, each car is different and each tune is different. Just be prepared for worst, always have money for a new shortblock in the bank. Last hting you want is a daily driver to go kaboom because you wanted some extra power.
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Old 05-14-2004, 08:01 PM   #4
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Don't worry about the mileage. I've seen subaru blocks torn down in excess of 150k miles and still have the OEM crosshatching. DEFINATELY have money in the bank for an emergency shortblock purchase and fast install before you delve into the turbo realm. Having your daily driver begin to die a horrible death when you are flat broke is NO good.
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Old 05-14-2004, 08:10 PM   #5
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You will need to customize the FAT kit to make it work with a WRX IC. You'd be better off getting a stage 2 kit, with the IC core. It's about 500x better then the stock WRX IC.
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Old 05-14-2004, 09:57 PM   #6
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Alright, thanks for the support guys! it makes me feel alot better when I know there is support. OH, and the stage 2 IC looks really good, dont get me wrong, but the price is just over my budget. Ive allocated 3k for boost. I mean, if the stock wrx IC can handle 12psi on the ej20, I think it can handle 5...But I would get that IC if I had the cash. Oh, and if a HG went, would I have to get a new shortblock?? I thought I could just replace the HG and be fine. But if not, Thanks for the warning, I shall prepare for the worst, and if it happens, Ill be ready. Ill have all sumer to tinker with it before school. So if it makes it fine through the toasty summer head, I think I should be ok, Ill just keep my eye on the boost and EGT.

HA HA!! boost, here I come!

oh, what signs should I look for if, and when the engine decides to go? high engine temp, high egt?

sorry, one more thing, I read in a post (in this forum) that he has a MBC and in 2nd was at 12psi, and 3rd at 14? should I have to worry with boost spike with the tial WG in the kit? An why did his boost go up in higher gears??

Last edited by commador; 05-14-2004 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 05-15-2004, 02:15 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by commador
Ive allocated 3k for boost.


Only 3k?

It takes a shizzle more then that to make it happen.
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Old 05-15-2004, 04:54 AM   #8
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commador, have you not taken any of the advice i have already given in the legacy forum, or do you just not trust me
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:11 AM   #9
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i trust you fully. You already have a turbo car. I know you speak from experience. I just want to get my answers straight before I buy anything. You told me to get a used kit, and a link. Will I not need the rrfpr and pump with the link, or just the pump? Like I said, nothing is set in stone. Just getting all the facts I can.

Basically, is the link neccesary for only 5 psi? I mean, it would be a great tool to have, but spending another 1500 for it, and 300 for the tuner, would that be needed for that low of a boost pressure? I forgot where I read it, but a guy in vegas has a BD 2.5 legacy, and runs 8psi with nothing more than an rx7tt pump. He has been like that for over a year and had no problems. If money wasnt an issue, I would go for everything you told me in the leg forum, but for my luck, it is an issue.

Last edited by commador; 05-15-2004 at 08:23 AM.
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Old 05-15-2004, 08:13 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by kastle


Only 3k?

It takes a shizzle more then that to make it happen.
why? I could have turboed my civic for under 2500 and everything would work right. I know this is a different car, but it cant be that different.
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Old 05-15-2004, 09:38 AM   #11
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Turboing hondas are easy, inexpensive and the market is huge that is why it's so cheap like you say. Doing anything to a honda is cheap, but unfortunately as you will find out a Subaru is not.

It's your car man, do what you want. If you choose not to run any fuel upgrades or engine management and go turbo then so be it. I think everybody is just stating what they have done or what will keep your engine from blowing up.

If you would like to piece together a used turbo kit which may be the best, but if you get no engine, or fuel upgrades then turbo at your own risk.

Please correct if I am wrong, but a turbo requires more fuel no matter what psi you are running. You're putting more air into the cylinder therefore you need more fuel. A stock ecu won't know how to compensate for this because of it's a/f maps which means you need to force fuel into the cylinder.

Good luck with any decision you choose to make.
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Old 05-15-2004, 02:04 PM   #12
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well, its not like I wont have NO management. If I get the FAT stage 1, Ill have an RRFPR and the piggy back timing controller with a walbro 225l pump. Isnt that suffiencient for 5? Dont forget, as stated, Ill have an IC and run 92 octane to keep detonation away. And as a matter of fact, belive this or not, I think I got a car that hasnt suffered the dreaded HG problems. It has the ORIGINAL HG at 130k.... So if I were to get a taller aftermarket piece (to lower CR) I shouldnt have to worry about blowing one. And while Im on the subject, I think I will pick up the 160* thermostat from boxer4racing to lower temps even more.
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Old 05-15-2004, 02:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by commador
why? I could have turboed my civic for under 2500 and everything would work right. I know this is a different car, but it cant be that different.

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Old 05-15-2004, 02:52 PM   #14
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Ok kastle, you like to laugh, I can see that What if I run a J&S safeguard with the FAT stage 1?? Are there any cheaper knock sensor kits avaible out there?? And what is this Im hearing about atmoshperic BOV's that let the motor run rich after WOT but if they recirculate its fine??

OR, if you think that is a bit extreme for 5psi, what about colder plugs? Dont forget, like Ive said before, I will use 92 octane with an IC. I just dont want detonation....because that would make all my work go boom.....*literally*

OH, and I guess my car dosent have a knock sensor does it? (if it did I wouldnt have to buy a J&S or similar would I?)

Last edited by commador; 05-15-2004 at 03:00 PM.
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Old 05-15-2004, 03:02 PM   #15
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Default Re: Turboing my 2.5 *searches performed*

Quote:
Originally posted by commador
I will not go higher than the kits 5psi setting. Never, not now, not later. I cant afford the problems it may cause.


This is my favorite line. You have not driven a turbo Impreza yet, have you? Boost is addicting, once you get boosted, you won't want to go back.

If you really want to be safe at 5psi, which by the way will give you about 70 more wheel HP, you should STRONGLY consider some type of fuel management. You could also combine the fuel and timing with the Greddy E-Manage. It will also help you out later when you change your mind about running more boost...

The way I see it, with the Emanage and the FAT kit, once your 2.5 block blows up, replace it with the 2.2L turbo short block, up the boost to about 10psi and get another 200,000 miles out of it.

Good Luck,
Chad
93 2.2T

P.S. if you want safe power, scratch the turbo kit and get a set of headers and cams.
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Old 05-15-2004, 03:15 PM   #16
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Default Re: Re: Turboing my 2.5 *searches performed*

Quote:
Originally posted by subachad
This is my favorite line. You have not driven a turbo Impreza yet, have you?
actually, I have, and yes, boost is VERY addicting. One reason I want it in my car. And I know everyone thinks I will up the boost, But really, I wont. I dont want to blow my car up. I just want some more power. And you cant go wrong with the beautiful sounds of a spooling turbo, the wastegate, and the all to famous BOV.

As for fuel management, I though the afc wouldnt work on 98+ cars?? One reason I keep looking at the RRFPR in the kit. BTW, how well does the ignition controller in that kit work anyhow? Any good sites that sell the j&s safeguard?? it looks pretty damn good for retarding and keeping knock away.
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Old 05-15-2004, 05:39 PM   #17
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Your keep mentioning fear of blowing up your car.

All the engine management tools you mention have limited abilities and precision. They have nowhere near the control a re-flashed ECU or standalone(Link) offer. The E-Manage is a good compromise, that works with a voltage clamp. The S-AFC's won't work on 00+ Imprezas, but I can't tell you about Legacy's. I'd try asking in a Legacy forum for that specific question. But I don't think the S-AFC offers all that much control to do what you need.

Yes, the car has a knock sensor. It just doesn't do everything the J&S unit does. You need to do some research on that unit if you are considering it.

Also, remember, these are high-compression engines. On a stock turbo-charged motor, the compression would usually be lower, for a variety of reasons. So you are running less boost because of the higher compression than a EJ20 in a WRX, but you can get more power per PSI of boost. So your comment about only running 5PSI and the WRX intercooler being enough, since it was designed for 14PSI doesn't exactly mean anything. Yes, a WRX intercooler would be fine, but you'll need to modify it to get it to work. That's more money. By the time you factor all that stuff in, you may be better off just getting the Stage II kit.

Also, people have been turbo-ing Honda blocks for a while. Not as true of the EJ25 block. Most kits are custom, not really all that many use the original parts. So there's little uniformity. Just because some guy pieced together a kit for $2100 and has been running fine, doesn't mean he wasn't able to get $1200 worth of welding work done(by himself or through a friend) for free, had a slew of nuts/bolts/fittings and tools available to him, and also had 10 years of experience in that field already(or some hard core mechanics to help him). Keep that in mind when you hear some of the low quotes from people.
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Old 05-16-2004, 12:02 AM   #18
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I found a ludespeed stage 2 kit for sale in the private seller forum. Im talking to the seller because that sounds like a nice kit. Spearco IC, J&S ultrasafeguard and the usual mechanical pieces. I assume this is an improvement over the FAT?
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Old 05-16-2004, 01:24 PM   #19
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not to sound like i am mr. know-it-all, because i am far from it, but you can see that my sediments i told you in the Legacy forum are being repeated here in AFI as well.

so, like i said before, if you can go full standalone and a used kit for under your budget, why would you do otherwise? to me it seems like it would be even more hassle to try and hook up all these extra piggy backs and other peripherals than just getting a Link Plus or Hydra ecu, which do the jobs of the piggy backs only MUCH better, and gives you flexibility to upgrade later.

good luck

Ben
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Old 05-16-2004, 01:44 PM   #20
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I know standalone is best, but then wouldnt I have to take it to get tuned? there is no one around me that can tune it and the bigger "subaru" tuner closest to me is quite a drive. Unless I can get a map made, then DL it from the net, I dont see how I could use it. And for piggy backs, whats wrong with the ultrasafeguard? I was under the impression that it was pretty damn good. And I can get a used (but most of it is acutally new) ludespeed stage 2. You know, big spearco TMIC, j&s safeguard, plugs, t3/4 yadda yadda... For the price, I cant beat that. And wouldnt that last long enough to where I could get a link, and get it properly tuned? I mean, its not like the engine isnt gonig to have NO management. Just not as good as a standalone. And I belive you all the way, because you have done this before and you are speaking of eperience. BTW, have you experienced any nasty tranny problems I should need to know about?
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Old 05-16-2004, 02:54 PM   #21
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Last time I checked you are in Maryland, and you have some of the best tuners around. Element Tuning for the Hydra, which is charging around 400 bucks for a 3 hour tuning session. There is an official Link Plus tuner in Maryland as well. The options are there. Like everybody has been saying if you are worried about blowing up your engine, don't skimp.

You know you can always buy the turbo kit used in pieces and once you have everything good to go, then slap it on and this will give you time to save up for a stand alone as well. Patience is a virtue, I'm slowly finding that out....
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Old 05-16-2004, 03:26 PM   #22
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Really? where at in MD? I guess around baltimore?
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Old 05-16-2004, 03:34 PM   #23
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You know Google is gonna be one of the best Technology IPOs in a while because of their search capabilities and web site referencing. Try it

Seriously, do a search for Element Tuning and you should find it. Also do a search for Link USA and you should be able to navigate the website to find tuners and dealers. Good luck

Also I don't if they are like 20 minutes from you, but at least in the same state, so you have nothing to complain about. If worst comes to worst you have Rallispec up in New Jersey, XX Tuning in Connecticut. The NorthEast is a huge Subaru market and the tuners to accomodate. Good luck
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Old 05-16-2004, 03:56 PM   #24
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commador

you will never know unless you try.

I was in the same boat as you a year ago. I have since bought a Used kit an an emanage. Get out there and do it!!! If you are endlessly worried, and hesitant to work on your car, this is the wrong project for you. RST is a wonderful thing, but it is for people who love to work on their car. Count on it being a constant project.

good luck.

Todd
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