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Old 05-17-2004, 09:50 AM   #1
Fred
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Default 2.5RS autox comparison test (as promised)

Did a little comparison test during fun runs at the autox on Saturday. Two runs in the coupe, then two runs in the sedan. Took one more run in the coupe to try and beat the sedan, but ended up overdriving - coned a few times & went 0.5 sec slower.

2000 2.5RS coupe - the autox car
Stock, except for:
STi Group N engine mounts
Cusco shifter bushings
Ganzflow intake, borla header, stromung catback
STi V5RA springs
Konis
STi Group N topmounts
Whiteline KCA375 offset control arm bushings
Whiteline 22mm front sway bar
Whiteline 24mm rear sway bar
Whiteline endlinks (the cheap ones)
Camber: -2.2 front, -1.5 rear
Toe: 1/16 out front & rear
Carbotech Bobcats
Falken Azenis 205/55/16 on stock wheels
WRX front seats

best time: 39.674

2001 2.5RS sedan - the daily driver/ rallyx car
Stock, except for:
STi Group N engine mounts
Kartboy shifter bushings
Konis
WRX 20mm rear sway bar
STi Group N rear lateral link & trailing arm bushings
Camber: -1.2 front & rear (max available with stock bolts)
Toe: zero front & rear edit: actually it was 1/4" toe IN at the front - oops.
Goodridge brake lines, Axxis Ultimates
Pirelli PZero Nero 205/50/16 on stock wheels

best time: 39.658

In case you think that maybe the driver just sucks...

The fastest legitimate (non-coned, non-DNF) runs by SP, SM, etc. cars on R compounds were about a second faster.

I won the driver's championship in the club last year based on overall PAX results... and Tom Hoppe is in the club.

I wouldn't say I'm the best driver in the world, or that I had "the perfect run" in either car (especially the coupe), but the fastest run in each car still felt pretty damn good. I would say the coupe probably could've run a few tenths faster than the sedan if I'd had a few more runs in each car.

I think this is a pretty decent illustration of the fact that a "poorly-prepared" car is not really that much slower than a well-prepared car, and that it's up to the driver to utilize the potential. The sedan was also MUCH easier to drive than the coupe (which is kinda twitchy & a little bit loose), which is why anybody just starting out shouldn't just go out & spend thousands of dollars on the car. Feel free to tell me I'm stupid - or to say "thanks for preventing me from wasting thousands of $ to drop a few tenths of a second..."

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Last edited by Fred; 05-19-2004 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 05-17-2004, 09:53 AM   #2
trhoppe
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Youre stupid

-Tom
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:06 AM   #3
Fred
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Default

Your mama.

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Old 05-17-2004, 10:26 AM   #4
Midnight_Gold
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Bring it isshes!

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Uhoh, here we go about the momma's bum again!




- Miranda
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:28 AM   #5
NeoteriX
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That's pretty interesting. I guess that means for me that the evolution school is more worth it than that new set of struts..
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:37 AM   #6
jmott
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which car did you run 2nd?
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:54 AM   #7
trhoppe
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Quote:
Two runs in the coupe, then two runs in the sedan. Took one more run in the coupe to try and beat the sedan
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:57 AM   #8
jmott
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Quote:
Originally posted by trhoppe
ahhhh
boot to my own head
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:02 PM   #9
10th Warrior
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Default

do you rally-x on the Neros?

Quote:
I think this is a pretty decent illustration of the fact that a "poorly-prepared" car is not really that much slower than a well-prepared car,
we all know that GS is the only real class
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:04 PM   #10
jmott
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Quote:
Originally posted by 10th Warrior


we all know that GS is the only real class
ive always been partial to ASP/BSP

=)
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:29 PM   #11
Fred
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The first rallyx we had, I ran on the Pirellis. Won my class, ended up 3rd overall (to two rally drivers). They didn't feel that bad. I was driving on them all the time back then, and started autoxing on them when I wore out the set of Azenis I was using. Didn't do too bad; won DSP on them up in VA once (among other good results). They're kinda worn down now, so I wouldn't want to rallyx on them at this point.

I'm rallyxing now on the stock-sized Continental Contiextremecontacts I bought for winter use. They don't really feel that much different in the dirt, but they suck bunghole on pavement. On snow, they rock.
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Old 05-17-2004, 02:16 PM   #12
10th Warrior
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i have the contis on my car and have been pretty happy with them. i'll agree they aren't the greatest, even by allseason standards, on dry pavement, but great rain tire and, like you said, very good in the snow. also competent on gravel. i've screwed around a bit with them on dirt and they seem ok for a street tire (i normally run R700s).

Quote:
ive always been partial to ASP/BSP
when i said 'real' class, i meant real slow
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Old 05-17-2004, 02:30 PM   #13
jmott
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Quote:
Originally posted by 10th Warrior

when i said 'real' class, i meant real slow
hehe
Imma have to vote for HSTOCK then

a 318i is still fun in that class too!
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:24 PM   #14
jblaine
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That's pretty interesting. Thanks for doing it.
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Old 05-17-2004, 05:43 PM   #15
DrBiggly
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I was there at the autox and saw him run both cars. His times were definitely competitive for the class and overall for the entire club. I think Tom barely got him on PAX time? Don't remember.

Fred, did you see my post on the THSCC board? I'm pondering over whether or not to protest that guy and claim a trophy. I pay so much attention to my stuff to make sure I'm perfectly legal...why can't everybody else do the same?
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Old 05-17-2004, 07:02 PM   #16
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Im not surprised. The alignment and swaybars on the "well-preped" cars isnt that great for autocrossing.
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Old 05-18-2004, 12:31 AM   #17
NeoteriX
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen
Im not surprised. The alignment and swaybars on the "well-preped" cars isnt that great for autocrossing.
I don't understand? If you "prep" a car for autocrossing, why wouldn't it do well for autocrossing?
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Old 05-18-2004, 01:38 AM   #18
Seeing StaRS
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nice info thanks for posting

Joe
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Old 05-18-2004, 09:03 AM   #19
trhoppe
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen
Im not surprised. The alignment and swaybars on the "well-preped" cars isnt that great for autocrossing.
Huh? What do YOU think a good alignment + swaybar combo is for autox

-Tom
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Old 05-18-2004, 11:11 AM   #20
jmott
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Quote:
Originally posted by trhoppe
Huh? What do YOU think a good alignment + swaybar combo is for autox

-Tom
-2.5 to -3 degrees camber, way stiffer linear rate springs, likely lower than the springs that car had on it, larger azenis.

swaybar? meh.
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Old 05-18-2004, 11:11 AM   #21
jmott
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Quote:
Originally posted by NeoteriX
I don't understand? If you "prep" a car for autocrossing, why wouldn't it do well for autocrossing?
I think he is arguing it wasn't prepped all that well.


really the only thing I see between the two cars that ought to make the first one noticeably quicker is the tires.
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Old 05-18-2004, 11:13 AM   #22
trhoppe
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmott
-2.5 to -3 degrees camber, way stiffer linear rate springs, likely lower than the springs that car had on it, larger azenis.

swaybar? meh.
I agree with the springs, but kostamojen did not mention springs specifically. Kevin needs to quit being a wuss and get real springs on the car no doubt, but his swaybar combo + alignment are spot on. You don't need that much camber on a lighter 2.5RS. I'm actually right at -2.5 right now on my WRX and am thinking about dialing a bit out as I'm still hotter on the insides.

-Tom
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Old 05-19-2004, 12:50 AM   #23
Kostamojen
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Too much swaybar, too much rear camber and too much toe.

That more specific for you?

But in the end, they are simular cars in that they have simular power and not much difference in grip between the two.
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:12 AM   #24
AlpineFD
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kostamojen
Too much swaybar, too much rear camber and too much toe.

That more specific for you?

But in the end, they are simular cars in that they have simular power and not much difference in grip between the two.
What would you consider to be a better toe setting for autox?

Thanks,

Randy
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:09 AM   #25
trhoppe
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Too much swaybar?

He's running 22 front, 24 rear, thats not ENOUGH bar.

Too much rear camber?

Rear camber is set to "feel" after the rest of the setup is done. The car is loose with -1.5. It would be stupid with less

Too much toe?

1/16 toe out is too much? Front toe out for a slight turn in bite and slight rear toe out to get the car rotating faster.

-Tom
who thinks kostamojen should NOT post any setup advice for anyone
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