Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Sunday August 31, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
Click here to visit TireRack
Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack

Losing traction? Need new tires?
Click here to visit the NASIOC Upgrade Garage...
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Brakes, Steering & Suspension

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-18-2004, 12:25 PM   #1
03WREX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 38932
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dirty South, CA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
WRB - Cobb Stg2

Default Upcoming Track Event... need advice.

Hello,

I've had my 03 WRX for about a year now (15k miles) and I am about to attend my first track event. I have not done much to my suspension: lowered on eibach, subzeros w/ yoko avs es100's.

My main concern will be my brakes. I will be going to Willow Springs, CA and riding Big Willow which is a considerably 'fast' track. I actually want to know if I'd be ok using my stock brake pads for this event, mainly because I don't want to put a lot of money into this event and find out that I won't be doing another one any time soon. I would like to try it first before I invest.

With that said, do you feel that I will be fine stock or would it be in my interest to spend some money on some brakes before the event? The event will be an all day event w/ 20 minute sessions, so I imagine my brakes will eventually fade. I just want to know how well the stock brakes will hold up. If I do enjoy the event, which I'm sure I will, I'll be looking to upgrade for sure. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
03WREX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 12:39 PM   #2
trhoppe
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7492
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Hotlanta, GA
Vehicle:
No race cars
www.tomhoppe.com

Default

You will NOT be ok with stock brakes. Not even CLOSE. Your fluid will boil and your pads will dangerously fade.

Please invest in some quality brake fluid such as ATE Super Blue or the Motul 600 and go with some real pads. Carbotech Panther Plus would be an excellent choice for a street tire shod car on track.

-Tom
trhoppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 01:05 PM   #3
CharT
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 36117
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Bay Area, CA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX Wagon
WRB

Default

If it's your first track event, I really don't think you'll need aftermarket pads. Just make sure you have enough pad material left on the stock pads to last the entire day. The main thing I'd recommend is for you to replace your brake fluid with some fresh fluid.
CharT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 01:14 PM   #4
ITWRX4ME
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24472
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Marshall, Virginia
Vehicle:
2001 Miata
White

Default

Tom's right.

I did my first track event on OEM pads. They were overheated after two turns on the first hot lap in the first session. Had to run the rest of the event very conservatively, which doesn't help much with learning.

A set of pads will set you back about 100 bucks and a litre of ATE DOT4 should be around 10 bucks. With experienced help, you can change the pads and flush the fluid in about an hour. It's well worth the effort and cost. Also make sure you follow the bedding procedures for the pads. Again, takes another half hour but well worth the time.

You can switch back to the OEM pads after the event and put the track pads on a shelf until the next time.

I highly recommend going with full race pads. The street/track compromise pads can cost about the same and aren't nearly as good.
ITWRX4ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 01:23 PM   #5
03WREX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 38932
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dirty South, CA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
WRB - Cobb Stg2

Default

Thanks for the advice so far. I think I'd be better off investing in some pads rather than 'test' the stock pads and find out they'll be done after a lap.

So are the Carbotech panther+ a track pad or is it a street/track pad? I don't know if I want a strictly track pad or a stree/track pad due to the fact that I'm unsure how often I'll be going to the track.
03WREX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 01:38 PM   #6
ITWRX4ME
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24472
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Marshall, Virginia
Vehicle:
2001 Miata
White

Default

Panther+ is what I'm using.

It will work on the street but it's noisy has hell.

I previously used Hawk HP+ but the Panther+ has been much better. In fact, I experienced some fade with the Hawks but I never maxed out the Panthers.

I only had one track event with the Panthers last November at VIR. I have one coming this Friday at Summit Point so I'll have a better basis for comparison, since that's where I've done all of my other events.
ITWRX4ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 01:48 PM   #7
Luke@tirerack
Tire Rack Moderator
 
Member#: 1215
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: The Tire Rack
Vehicle:
800 -428-8355
ext. 4362

Default

#1.) brake fluid is a must ..... ATE Super Blue or Motul 600 or something else with a wet boiling point about 450 degrees

#2.) pads ..... Hawk HPS is a street pad that can perform adequately on the track or even better the HP Plus pads which are more of a "track friction material" and less streetable. A true track pad would be a little over kill for your situation
Luke@tirerack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 02:18 PM   #8
trhoppe
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7492
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Hotlanta, GA
Vehicle:
No race cars
www.tomhoppe.com

Default

The carbotech panther + is a light track/driver ed pad.
The carbotech bobcat is a street/autox pad that will go up to 900 degrees before fade.

After thinking about it, the bobcat along with ATE Super Blue fluid would be perfect for your first track experience. Then if you decided you want to go on track more, you can get the panther + dedicated track pad and still use the bobcats on the street. The AWESOME thing about carbotech brakes that other companies don't offer is the ability to switch between their track and street compounds w/o taking the old pad material off the rotors. With other companies you need to either have the rotor resurfaced or sand off the old pad material. Did I mention that I used 1 set of rotors with 5 different sets of carbotech pads? I autoxed and street drove through a set of bobcats, then I went through two sets of panther XPs testing and running One Lap, then I tried the Panther + pad (which was a little overkill for autox), and went back to a new set of bobcats. All on my original 56K mile rotors.

-Tom
Carbotech RULES
trhoppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 02:58 PM   #9
ITWRX4ME
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 24472
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Marshall, Virginia
Vehicle:
2001 Miata
White

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by trhoppe
...With other companies you need to either have the rotor resurfaced or sand off the old pad material.
maybe that's why my OEM pads took so long to bed in after switching back from the Panthers.
ITWRX4ME is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 04:06 PM   #10
Jeff_DML
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32018
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA.
Vehicle:
2008 M3 Sedan
Interlagos Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by trhoppe
The carbotech panther + is a light track/driver ed pad.
The carbotech bobcat is a street/autox pad that will go up to 900 degrees before fade.

After thinking about it, the bobcat along with ATE Super Blue fluid would be perfect for your first track experience. Then if you decided you want to go on track more, you can get the panther + dedicated track pad and still use the bobcats on the street. The AWESOME thing about carbotech brakes that other companies don't offer is the ability to switch between their track and street compounds w/o taking the old pad material off the rotors. With other companies you need to either have the rotor resurfaced or sand off the old pad material. Did I mention that I used 1 set of rotors with 5 different sets of carbotech pads? I autoxed and street drove through a set of bobcats, then I went through two sets of panther XPs testing and running One Lap, then I tried the Panther + pad (which was a little overkill for autox), and went back to a new set of bobcats. All on my original 56K mile rotors.

-Tom
Carbotech RULES
good to hear that the stock brake rotors hold up to track events while running a TBE and engine management. You think you are putting out near 280 at the crank? Do you the pather hold up the whole day or do they eventually start to fade.

I am currently in the process of upgrading to stage 2 cobb and plan to track my wrx. I have stock brakes so I was worried I might need to upgrade to BBK, hoping pads and new fluid is enough.

thanks
Jeff_DML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 04:58 PM   #11
trhoppe
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7492
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Hotlanta, GA
Vehicle:
No race cars
www.tomhoppe.com

Default

I had a full vishnu stage 1 with full boost mods when I did one lap. Right now I have ecutek w/o any boost changes. I estimate I was at 300 crank and now I'm at 275-280 crank.

If you have that much more power, the Panther XP will be the pad for you. You will destroy wheel bearings and cook CV joints before those pads fade on you

If you will be doing a LOT of track events and driving hard, I would recommend some type of bigger rotor+caliper to dissapate the heat (carbotech pads still of course), but if you will do 4 or 5 a year, IMHO the stock brakes with XP pads, ATE Super Blue fluid, and brake dust shields removed will work great. It also wouldn't hurt to remove your foglights and run a very simple brake duct such as this thread http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=brake+duct

Granted we did not do a lot of laps at one time during one lap, but I did 4 20 minute sessions and 1 40 minute session at CMP (VERY hard on brakes) while testing with no brake fade.

-Tom
trhoppe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 05:08 PM   #12
Jeff_DML
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32018
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA.
Vehicle:
2008 M3 Sedan
Interlagos Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by trhoppe
I had a full vishnu stage 1 with full boost mods when I did one lap. Right now I have ecutek w/o any boost changes. I estimate I was at 300 crank and now I'm at 275-280 crank.

If you have that much more power, the Panther XP will be the pad for you. You will destroy wheel bearings and cook CV joints before those pads fade on you

If you will be doing a LOT of track events and driving hard, I would recommend some type of bigger rotor+caliper to dissapate the heat (carbotech pads still of course), but if you will do 4 or 5 a year, IMHO the stock brakes with XP pads, ATE Super Blue fluid, and brake dust shields removed will work great. It also wouldn't hurt to remove your foglights and run a very simple brake duct such as this thread http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=brake+duct

Granted we did not do a lot of laps at one time during one lap, but I did 4 20 minute sessions and 1 40 minute session at CMP (VERY hard on brakes) while testing with no brake fade.

-Tom
thanks, dont plan to do more then 4-5 track days a year. Also dont plan to go past ~280 hp crank
Jeff_DML is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 05:15 PM   #13
del105
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43010
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:
1974 2002tii
silver

Default

I got to agree with Tom on this the Carbotech bobcats are some of the best pads I have ever used. They are very versatile and the only set of street pads I've had that I feel comfortable using on a track.
del105 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2004, 06:13 PM   #14
03WREX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 38932
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dirty South, CA
Vehicle:
2003 WRX
WRB - Cobb Stg2

Default

So, now I'm kind of leaning towards getting the Carbotech Bobcats rather than the Panther+ due to the fact that I will probably only do maybe 2 track events a year... unless I'm addicted but even then work would probably limit it to 3-4 at most.

I think I'll try the Bobcats for this event and if I still feel like I need more braking power I'll get the Panther xp and just swap back and forth for track days.

While I'm at it, should I go ahead and upgrade my brake lines to SS? Seems fairly logical to do, and not too expensive. After searching a bit I found that Suby Dude has a pretty decent package available. Approx $315 for front&rear carbotech pads and front/rear SS goodridge brake lines.

I don't think I'll need rotors yet... pads, ss lines, and fluid seem like an adequate combo right now.
03WREX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Upcoming Car Show - Need Advice DNA Motoring Car Care & Detailing 13 04-13-2010 06:45 PM
Upcoming Track Events ewaher Southern California Impreza Club Forum -- SCIC 0 09-10-2008 04:45 PM
Auto-x / Track guys - need advice JM530 Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 6 10-17-2006 10:40 AM
Tire advice needed for track event... 03WREX Tire & Wheel 2 05-24-2004 09:30 PM
Upcoming Track events (Not racing, unless you want to) mhoward1 South East Region Forum 2 07-16-2003 09:35 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.