Upcoming Track Event... need advice.

03WREX · 05-18-2004, 12:25 PM

Hello,

I've had my 03 WRX for about a year now (15k miles) and I am about to attend my first track event. I have not done much to my suspension: lowered on eibach, subzeros w/ yoko avs es100's.

My main concern will be my brakes. I will be going to Willow Springs, CA and riding Big Willow which is a considerably 'fast' track. I actually want to know if I'd be ok using my stock brake pads for this event, mainly because I don't want to put a lot of money into this event and find out that I won't be doing another one any time soon. I would like to try it first before I invest.

With that said, do you feel that I will be fine stock or would it be in my interest to spend some money on some brakes before the event? The event will be an all day event w/ 20 minute sessions, so I imagine my brakes will eventually fade. I just want to know how well the stock brakes will hold up. If I do enjoy the event, which I'm sure I will, I'll be looking to upgrade for sure. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

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trhoppe · 05-18-2004, 12:39 PM

You will NOT be ok with stock brakes. Not even CLOSE. Your fluid will boil and your pads will dangerously fade.

Please invest in some quality brake fluid such as ATE Super Blue or the Motul 600 and go with some real pads. Carbotech Panther Plus would be an excellent choice for a street tire shod car on track.

-Tom

CharT · 05-18-2004, 01:05 PM

If it's your first track event, I really don't think you'll need aftermarket pads. Just make sure you have enough pad material left on the stock pads to last the entire day. The main thing I'd recommend is for you to replace your brake fluid with some fresh fluid.

ITWRX4ME · 05-18-2004, 01:14 PM

Tom's right.

I did my first track event on OEM pads. They were overheated after two turns on the first hot lap in the first session. Had to run the rest of the event very conservatively, which doesn't help much with learning.

A set of pads will set you back about 100 bucks and a litre of ATE DOT4 should be around 10 bucks. With experienced help, you can change the pads and flush the fluid in about an hour. It's well worth the effort and cost. Also make sure you follow the bedding procedures for the pads. Again, takes another half hour but well worth the time.

You can switch back to the OEM pads after the event and put the track pads on a shelf until the next time.

I highly recommend going with full race pads. The street/track compromise pads can cost about the same and aren't nearly as good.

03WREX · 05-18-2004, 01:23 PM

Thanks for the advice so far. I think I'd be better off investing in some pads rather than 'test' the stock pads and find out they'll be done after a lap.

So are the Carbotech panther+ a track pad or is it a street/track pad? I don't know if I want a strictly track pad or a stree/track pad due to the fact that I'm unsure how often I'll be going to the track.

ITWRX4ME · 05-18-2004, 01:38 PM

Panther+ is what I'm using.

It will work on the street but it's noisy has hell.

I previously used Hawk HP+ but the Panther+ has been much better. In fact, I experienced some fade with the Hawks but I never maxed out the Panthers.

I only had one track event with the Panthers last November at VIR. I have one coming this Friday at Summit Point so I'll have a better basis for comparison, since that's where I've done all of my other events.

Luke@tirerack · 05-18-2004, 01:48 PM

#1.) brake fluid is a must ..... ATE Super Blue or Motul 600 or something else with a wet boiling point about 450 degrees

#2.) pads ..... Hawk HPS is a street pad that can perform adequately on the track or even better the HP Plus pads which are more of a "track friction material" and less streetable. A true track pad would be a little over kill for your situation

trhoppe · 05-18-2004, 02:18 PM

The carbotech panther + is a light track/driver ed pad.
The carbotech bobcat is a street/autox pad that will go up to 900 degrees before fade.

After thinking about it, the bobcat along with ATE Super Blue fluid would be perfect for your first track experience. Then if you decided you want to go on track more, you can get the panther + dedicated track pad and still use the bobcats on the street. The AWESOME thing about carbotech brakes that other companies don't offer is the ability to switch between their track and street compounds w/o taking the old pad material off the rotors. With other companies you need to either have the rotor resurfaced or sand off the old pad material. Did I mention that I used 1 set of rotors with 5 different sets of carbotech pads? I autoxed and street drove through a set of bobcats, then I went through two sets of panther XPs testing and running One Lap, then I tried the Panther + pad (which was a little overkill for autox), and went back to a new set of bobcats. All on my original 56K mile rotors.

-Tom
Carbotech RULES

ITWRX4ME · 05-18-2004, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trhoppe
...With other companies you need to either have the rotor resurfaced or sand off the old pad material.

maybe that's why my OEM pads took so long to bed in after switching back from the Panthers.

Jeff_DML · 05-18-2004, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trhoppe
The carbotech panther + is a light track/driver ed pad.
The carbotech bobcat is a street/autox pad that will go up to 900 degrees before fade.

After thinking about it, the bobcat along with ATE Super Blue fluid would be perfect for your first track experience. Then if you decided you want to go on track more, you can get the panther + dedicated track pad and still use the bobcats on the street. The AWESOME thing about carbotech brakes that other companies don't offer is the ability to switch between their track and street compounds w/o taking the old pad material off the rotors. With other companies you need to either have the rotor resurfaced or sand off the old pad material. Did I mention that I used 1 set of rotors with 5 different sets of carbotech pads? I autoxed and street drove through a set of bobcats, then I went through two sets of panther XPs testing and running One Lap, then I tried the Panther + pad (which was a little overkill for autox), and went back to a new set of bobcats. All on my original 56K mile rotors.

-Tom
Carbotech RULES

good to hear that the stock brake rotors hold up to track events while running a TBE and engine management. You think you are putting out near 280 at the crank? Do you the pather hold up the whole day or do they eventually start to fade.

I am currently in the process of upgrading to stage 2 cobb and plan to track my wrx. I have stock brakes so I was worried I might need to upgrade to BBK, hoping pads and new fluid is enough.

thanks

trhoppe · 05-18-2004, 04:58 PM

I had a full vishnu stage 1 with full boost mods when I did one lap. Right now I have ecutek w/o any boost changes. I estimate I was at 300 crank and now I'm at 275-280 crank.

If you have that much more power, the Panther XP will be the pad for you. You will destroy wheel bearings and cook CV joints before those pads fade on you

If you will be doing a LOT of track events and driving hard, I would recommend some type of bigger rotor+caliper to dissapate the heat (carbotech pads still of course), but if you will do 4 or 5 a year, IMHO the stock brakes with XP pads, ATE Super Blue fluid, and brake dust shields removed will work great. It also wouldn't hurt to remove your foglights and run a very simple brake duct such as this thread http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=brake+duct

Granted we did not do a lot of laps at one time during one lap, but I did 4 20 minute sessions and 1 40 minute session at CMP (VERY hard on brakes) while testing with no brake fade.

-Tom

Jeff_DML · 05-18-2004, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by trhoppe
I had a full vishnu stage 1 with full boost mods when I did one lap. Right now I have ecutek w/o any boost changes. I estimate I was at 300 crank and now I'm at 275-280 crank.

If you have that much more power, the Panther XP will be the pad for you. You will destroy wheel bearings and cook CV joints before those pads fade on you

If you will be doing a LOT of track events and driving hard, I would recommend some type of bigger rotor+caliper to dissapate the heat (carbotech pads still of course), but if you will do 4 or 5 a year, IMHO the stock brakes with XP pads, ATE Super Blue fluid, and brake dust shields removed will work great. It also wouldn't hurt to remove your foglights and run a very simple brake duct such as this thread http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=brake+duct

Granted we did not do a lot of laps at one time during one lap, but I did 4 20 minute sessions and 1 40 minute session at CMP (VERY hard on brakes) while testing with no brake fade.

-Tom

thanks, dont plan to do more then 4-5 track days a year. Also dont plan to go past ~280 hp crank

del105 · 05-18-2004, 05:15 PM

I got to agree with Tom on this the Carbotech bobcats are some of the best pads I have ever used. They are very versatile and the only set of street pads I've had that I feel comfortable using on a track.

03WREX · 05-18-2004, 06:13 PM

So, now I'm kind of leaning towards getting the Carbotech Bobcats rather than the Panther+ due to the fact that I will probably only do maybe 2 track events a year... unless I'm addicted but even then work would probably limit it to 3-4 at most.

I think I'll try the Bobcats for this event and if I still feel like I need more braking power I'll get the Panther xp and just swap back and forth for track days.

While I'm at it, should I go ahead and upgrade my brake lines to SS? Seems fairly logical to do, and not too expensive. After searching a bit I found that Suby Dude has a pretty decent package available. Approx $315 for front&rear carbotech pads and front/rear SS goodridge brake lines.

I don't think I'll need rotors yet... pads, ss lines, and fluid seem like an adequate combo right now.

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05-18-2004, 12:25 PM	#1
03WREX Scooby Specialist Member#: 38932 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dirty South, CA Vehicle: 2003 WRX WRB - Cobb Stg2	Upcoming Track Event... need advice. Hello, I've had my 03 WRX for about a year now (15k miles) and I am about to attend my first track event. I have not done much to my suspension: lowered on eibach, subzeros w/ yoko avs es100's. My main concern will be my brakes. I will be going to Willow Springs, CA and riding Big Willow which is a considerably 'fast' track. I actually want to know if I'd be ok using my stock brake pads for this event, mainly because I don't want to put a lot of money into this event and find out that I won't be doing another one any time soon. I would like to try it first before I invest. With that said, do you feel that I will be fine stock or would it be in my interest to spend some money on some brakes before the event? The event will be an all day event w/ 20 minute sessions, so I imagine my brakes will eventually fade. I just want to know how well the stock brakes will hold up. If I do enjoy the event, which I'm sure I will, I'll be looking to upgrade for sure. Any advice will be greatly appreciated. Thanks. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

05-18-2004, 12:39 PM	#2
trhoppe Scooby Guru Member#: 7492 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Hotlanta, GA Vehicle: No race cars www.tomhoppe.com	You will NOT be ok with stock brakes. Not even CLOSE. Your fluid will boil and your pads will dangerously fade. Please invest in some quality brake fluid such as ATE Super Blue or the Motul 600 and go with some real pads. Carbotech Panther Plus would be an excellent choice for a street tire shod car on track. -Tom

05-18-2004, 01:05 PM	#3
CharT Scooby Newbie Member#: 36117 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Bay Area, CA Vehicle: 2003 WRX Wagon WRB	If it's your first track event, I really don't think you'll need aftermarket pads. Just make sure you have enough pad material left on the stock pads to last the entire day. The main thing I'd recommend is for you to replace your brake fluid with some fresh fluid.

05-18-2004, 01:14 PM	#4
ITWRX4ME Scooby Specialist Member#: 24472 Join Date: Sep 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Marshall, Virginia Vehicle: 2001 Miata White	Tom's right. I did my first track event on OEM pads. They were overheated after two turns on the first hot lap in the first session. Had to run the rest of the event very conservatively, which doesn't help much with learning. A set of pads will set you back about 100 bucks and a litre of ATE DOT4 should be around 10 bucks. With experienced help, you can change the pads and flush the fluid in about an hour. It's well worth the effort and cost. Also make sure you follow the bedding procedures for the pads. Again, takes another half hour but well worth the time. You can switch back to the OEM pads after the event and put the track pads on a shelf until the next time. I highly recommend going with full race pads. The street/track compromise pads can cost about the same and aren't nearly as good.

05-18-2004, 01:23 PM	#5
03WREX Scooby Specialist Member#: 38932 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dirty South, CA Vehicle: 2003 WRX WRB - Cobb Stg2	Thanks for the advice so far. I think I'd be better off investing in some pads rather than 'test' the stock pads and find out they'll be done after a lap. So are the Carbotech panther+ a track pad or is it a street/track pad? I don't know if I want a strictly track pad or a stree/track pad due to the fact that I'm unsure how often I'll be going to the track.

05-18-2004, 01:38 PM	#6
ITWRX4ME Scooby Specialist Member#: 24472 Join Date: Sep 2002 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Marshall, Virginia Vehicle: 2001 Miata White	Panther+ is what I'm using. It will work on the street but it's noisy has hell. I previously used Hawk HP+ but the Panther+ has been much better. In fact, I experienced some fade with the Hawks but I never maxed out the Panthers. I only had one track event with the Panthers last November at VIR. I have one coming this Friday at Summit Point so I'll have a better basis for comparison, since that's where I've done all of my other events.

05-18-2004, 01:48 PM	#7
Luke@tirerack Tire Rack Moderator Member#: 1215 Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: The Tire Rack Vehicle: 800 -428-8355 ext. 4362	#1.) brake fluid is a must ..... ATE Super Blue or Motul 600 or something else with a wet boiling point about 450 degrees #2.) pads ..... Hawk HPS is a street pad that can perform adequately on the track or even better the HP Plus pads which are more of a "track friction material" and less streetable. A true track pad would be a little over kill for your situation

05-18-2004, 02:18 PM	#8
trhoppe Scooby Guru Member#: 7492 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Hotlanta, GA Vehicle: No race cars www.tomhoppe.com	The carbotech panther + is a light track/driver ed pad. The carbotech bobcat is a street/autox pad that will go up to 900 degrees before fade. After thinking about it, the bobcat along with ATE Super Blue fluid would be perfect for your first track experience. Then if you decided you want to go on track more, you can get the panther + dedicated track pad and still use the bobcats on the street. The AWESOME thing about carbotech brakes that other companies don't offer is the ability to switch between their track and street compounds w/o taking the old pad material off the rotors. With other companies you need to either have the rotor resurfaced or sand off the old pad material. Did I mention that I used 1 set of rotors with 5 different sets of carbotech pads? I autoxed and street drove through a set of bobcats, then I went through two sets of panther XPs testing and running One Lap, then I tried the Panther + pad (which was a little overkill for autox), and went back to a new set of bobcats. All on my original 56K mile rotors. -Tom Carbotech RULES

05-18-2004, 04:58 PM	#11
trhoppe Scooby Guru Member#: 7492 Join Date: Jun 2001 Chapter/Region: South East Location: Hotlanta, GA Vehicle: No race cars www.tomhoppe.com	I had a full vishnu stage 1 with full boost mods when I did one lap. Right now I have ecutek w/o any boost changes. I estimate I was at 300 crank and now I'm at 275-280 crank. If you have that much more power, the Panther XP will be the pad for you. You will destroy wheel bearings and cook CV joints before those pads fade on you If you will be doing a LOT of track events and driving hard, I would recommend some type of bigger rotor+caliper to dissapate the heat (carbotech pads still of course), but if you will do 4 or 5 a year, IMHO the stock brakes with XP pads, ATE Super Blue fluid, and brake dust shields removed will work great. It also wouldn't hurt to remove your foglights and run a very simple brake duct such as this thread http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...ght=brake+duct Granted we did not do a lot of laps at one time during one lap, but I did 4 20 minute sessions and 1 40 minute session at CMP (VERY hard on brakes) while testing with no brake fade. -Tom

05-18-2004, 05:15 PM	#13
del105 Scooby Specialist Member#: 43010 Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Atlanta, GA Vehicle: 1974 2002tii silver	I got to agree with Tom on this the Carbotech bobcats are some of the best pads I have ever used. They are very versatile and the only set of street pads I've had that I feel comfortable using on a track.

05-18-2004, 06:13 PM	#14
03WREX Scooby Specialist Member#: 38932 Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dirty South, CA Vehicle: 2003 WRX WRB - Cobb Stg2	So, now I'm kind of leaning towards getting the Carbotech Bobcats rather than the Panther+ due to the fact that I will probably only do maybe 2 track events a year... unless I'm addicted but even then work would probably limit it to 3-4 at most. I think I'll try the Bobcats for this event and if I still feel like I need more braking power I'll get the Panther xp and just swap back and forth for track days. While I'm at it, should I go ahead and upgrade my brake lines to SS? Seems fairly logical to do, and not too expensive. After searching a bit I found that Suby Dude has a pretty decent package available. Approx $315 for front&rear carbotech pads and front/rear SS goodridge brake lines. I don't think I'll need rotors yet... pads, ss lines, and fluid seem like an adequate combo right now.