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Old 05-18-2004, 09:26 PM   #1
JohnW
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Default springs rates for WRX Wagon with Tein Wagon coilovers for autox/track

I would like some suggestions for spring rates on a replacing the springs on my Tein Wagon coilovers. As some of you know, the original spring rates are 5Kg front and 3Kg rear. I need something more competitive in autox (SM class) so the plan is to put 245 or 255 tires on next year. But, in order to do so, I need to stiffen the coilovers so that I don't get as much rubbing in the wheel liner. I've already rolled the fenders and I'll probably do some more tugging and pulling to get them further out.

Mako: have you considered upgrading your coilovers this way?

FYI: I received this email from Tein making it very attractive to get my coilovers respringed and revalved:

John,

Yes it is possible to change your spring rates. The rule of thumb is that you can change you spring rates + or - 2 kg/mm with out having to change your damping force. The reason why we suggest that you re-valve your shocks is because the damping force no longer matches the spring rates you plan to use. The costs for a revalve is $75.00/ damper and springs start from 100.00/ pair. If you have any further questions, feel free to contact us. Thank you.

Best regards,
Sales

Staff @ TEIN USA INC.
9798 Firestone Blvd.
Downey, CA 90241
Phone: (562)861-9161
Fax: (562)861-9171
www.tein.com
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Old 05-18-2004, 10:24 PM   #2
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It all depends on how hardcore you want to go (and how much spring the Tein Wagons can handle - even with a re-valve).

With Azenis, I'm currently running 8K/10K, and may go to 10K/10K if I can manage to squeeze 245's under the front fenders.

For sticky r-compound tires, I'd probably START with 12K/12K springs.


-Steve
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Old 05-19-2004, 01:30 AM   #3
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What coilovers are you using?

Quote:
Originally posted by MNbiker
It all depends on how hardcore you want to go (and how much spring the Tein Wagons can handle - even with a re-valve).

With Azenis, I'm currently running 8K/10K, and may go to 10K/10K if I can manage to squeeze 245's under the front fenders.

For sticky r-compound tires, I'd probably START with 12K/12K springs.


-Steve
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:36 AM   #4
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Tein Wagon. They are height adjustable only. No dampening adjustment. However, I will have them revalved to match the springs.

It seems like 10kg/mm front and 8kg/mm might be a good choice. 15/12 or 12/12 seems to be too much for a daily driver.

(EDIT: oh. you were probably asking Steve...nevermind my post)
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally posted by razorlab
What coilovers are you using?
JIC FLT-A2

-STeve
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:13 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by JohnW
It seems like 10kg/mm front and 8kg/mm might be a good choice.
I wouldn't recommend that combo. For a fairly neutral setup, even F/R spring rates seem to work well. A number of us in STX are actually running heavier springs in the rear, to help with rotation.

-Steve
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Old 05-19-2004, 01:53 PM   #7
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John ... you can only upgrade your (Wagon Coil Over) springs by 100 lbs before needing to revalve ... which is relatively expensive and takes a fair amount of time. Plus the cost of the new springs ... and not being able to control dampening ... meant ...

Instead ... I bought the relatively inexpensive new Tein Flex's ... 550/450 (wagon coil overs are 280/168) ... wonderful improvement over the Wagon Coil Overs! And, with the dampening turned to almost full soft ... the street rider is very nice ... less jouncy then a stock STI! Especially on a Wagon ... very easy to change the dampening.

I paid something like $1,450 from Gruppe S ... free postage ... and I'll get some money back selling my Wagon Coil overs w/ front camber plates.

I found that with around 1/8th inch total front total toe out ... rear sway bar set stiff, car rotates pretty nicely ... but I might go with stiffer springs in the rear. Got my Whiteline adjustable rear lateral links ... still waiting for my STI rear trailing arm and stiffer bushings ... before going stiffer in the rear. BUT I BARELY KNOW WHAT I'M DOING!

I've learned how to adjust my tie rods ... so I can go back to zero toe for the street ...

I was going to call you up about up-coming S.D. events ... but we decided to try out the high speed Lone Pine Time Trails instead, June 5/6. 2 mile course ... some racing car hit 160 on the long straight one year! Most cars get up to 90 ... obviously not a SCCA sanctioned event!

We'll be down to S.D. at some point though !
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:53 PM   #8
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mako,

thx for the recommendations. I guess I'll have to rethink my strategy. let me know when you can make it down to SD. There are quite a few events coming up in June/July.

John
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Old 05-24-2004, 12:30 AM   #9
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not to hi-jack your thead, but I was wondering what did you guys think of the Tein wagon coil-overs? I want a livelier/firmer suspension thats not too bone jarring. we've got potholes the size of medium size dogs and cracks as big as a small river here in the northeast. thanks

sean
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Old 05-24-2004, 01:47 AM   #10
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I think they are a very decent upgrade from stock ... I'm just amazed at how relatively nice my Tein Flex Coil Overs are ... with twice the spring rates!

The Wagon Coil overs are Definitely not Harsh! :-)

Lots of travel ... with the ability to adjust your ride heights. btw. I'm selling mine ... together with NRX camber plates for the fronts. Email me if you are interested ... I was hoping to sell the locally however ...
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Old 05-24-2004, 03:32 PM   #11
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Why don't you go with a setup similar to KC's? It's definitely a fast wagon. I *think* he's using Teins (but can't remember.)
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Old 05-24-2004, 03:37 PM   #12
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Tein RAs, not the Flexs.

--kC
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Old 05-24-2004, 03:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by KC
Tein RAs, not the Flexs.

--kC
DOH!
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Old 05-24-2004, 05:13 PM   #14
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Default helper springs on RA's

i have an 02 wagon. just got tein ra's. just wondering if there is a way to run without the helper springs? i am going to have 8k /10k.....i was aslo told that i did not have to roll the fenders...is this true? i am running 225 azienas on rota sdr.
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Old 05-24-2004, 05:15 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by wrxwag
i have an 02 wagon. just got tein ra's. just wondering if there is a way to run without the helper springs? i am going to have 8k /10k.....i was aslo told that i did not have to roll the fenders...is this true? i am running 225 azienas on rota sdr.
Just leave the helper springs. I did. Your setup sounds like mine... I didn't have the struts re-valved... I might at the end of the year... dunno. Car feels fine to me.

--kC
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Old 05-25-2004, 12:24 AM   #16
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Default ra's are on but tire rubs?

KC,
do your tires rub? i just put the TEIN RA's on tonight, but i did not get the 10 k springs in the back yet should be here wed. will the new springs in the back stop the tire from rubbing? i took a nice line of rubber out tof the side of my tire. not to bad...i have about 1 degree of camber in the back and was dampened at 12. do know anybody who has had trouble with 10's in the back and not being re-valved?
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:02 AM   #17
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What is your ride height? A number of drivers use 1.2, 1.3 degrees of neg camber in back ...

What wheels ... what is their off-set ...
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:14 AM   #18
Mark Avery
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njpunk: Tein Wagons make for a nice, fun daily driver, but aren't aggressive enough for those interested in racing.
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Old 05-25-2004, 07:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: ra's are on but tire rubs?

Quote:
Originally posted by wrxwag
KC,
do your tires rub? i just put the TEIN RA's on tonight, but i did not get the 10 k springs in the back yet should be here wed. will the new springs in the back stop the tire from rubbing? i took a nice line of rubber out tof the side of my tire. not to bad...i have about 1 degree of camber in the back and was dampened at 12. do know anybody who has had trouble with 10's in the back and not being re-valved?
I'm not KC, but my setup is similar. (for now, at least )

You shouldn't be getting tire rub, unless: A) your ride height is set too low and/or B) your wheels have an offset of less than 48mm. For ride height, I wouldn't recommend anything less than approx. 13.75" from hub center to fender lip. I'm assuming you have 225/45-17 Azenis, or some other 225 tires?

IIRC the RA's are good for up to 10K springs without a re-valve.

-Steve
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Old 05-25-2004, 07:51 AM   #20
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^^^ What he said. Check your ride heights.

Tein is saying +/- 2K in spring you should have them revalved, so going from 6K in the rear to 10K, you should. I don't feel anything that says to me that 10K is overdoing things.

This is a personal observation and shouldn't be construed as "it's fine for everyone".
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:07 AM   #21
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I helped (cough90%) with the install...Bob is sitting around 13.5" center of rim to inner fender in the front and rear. His Rota SDR (w/ Azenis Sports) are 48mm offset IIRC.

So we can get some more height in the rear to help things out... and the 10k springs are going to reduce the deflection also. That should do it I think.

Thanks for the help, see ya in WDC

Kevin
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:58 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Avery
njpunk: Tein Wagons make for a nice, fun daily driver, but aren't aggressive enough for those interested in racing.
thanks Mark.... i just want to make my commute a bit more enjoyable and maybe an autocross or two....nothing to crazy.
I cant find much info about them.....they're just ride height adjustable? thatd be cool cause i can lower them in the spring/summer/fall and raise them in the winter.
and would 225 series tires fit (i'd take it you'd have to roll your fenders to keep them from rubbng)

sean
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Old 05-25-2004, 12:28 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by njpunk
.....and would 225 series tires fit (i'd take it you'd have to roll your fenders to keep them from rubbng)
They'll fit. Refer to caveats 3 posts above....
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Old 05-25-2004, 12:49 PM   #24
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ahh cool thanks
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