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Old 10-05-2000, 03:07 PM   #1
Silver2000RS
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Question Fill Oil Filter Before Install?

I like to change my own oil since it is so easy on the RS. Does anyone fill the new oil filter with fresh oil before installing it? The thought of starting the car with no oil pressure bugs me. I'm I being too paranoid?
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Old 10-05-2000, 03:09 PM   #2
doripreza
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your being paranoid

all you need to do is wet the outer rubber ring that goes around the filter with some oil so you get a good seal
then your done!
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Old 10-05-2000, 03:12 PM   #3
Sunrise City Rider
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Talking

What would happen if the Subaru oil filter was mounted sideways and you filled it before installing it? Do you think that the engineers would let something like that slip by?
Zee
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Old 10-05-2000, 04:00 PM   #4
Tim Prudence
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I always fill the filter before screwing it on. Maybe I'm paranoid too, but it surely can't hurt.
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Old 10-05-2000, 04:47 PM   #5
Shik
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I agree with Tim. It surely can't hurt any and it's so easy, why not do it? I put oil in the filter on my Galant VR4 as well(sideways). A few spilled drips are worth it just for some piece of mind knowing the filter is not totally dry. It's not like the filter fills up with oil instantly anyway.

Again, may not be totally neccessary, but it sure the hell isn't hurting anything.
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Old 10-05-2000, 05:16 PM   #6
munkis
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It doesnt hurt to fill the filter first, but its not necessary, on a car with such a small filter, you have to remember there is still oil in the oil pump and galleries, be it a small amount, but its there, so your not exactly starting the car with no oil pressure unless you let it sit overnight before adding oil. Its a matter of personall preference, I personally do not fill it.

Jay McDade
MY00 BRP RS coupe
Auto Tech
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Old 10-05-2000, 06:33 PM   #7
BlueRidgeRS
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I fill before installing. The quicker oil start circulating through the engine the better. It might just make a fraction of a second difference but it's just piece of mind for me .

My question is, since the engine lays horizontally, does the bottom side of the cylinder wall get more lubrication than the top?
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Old 10-05-2000, 06:39 PM   #8
Sunrise City Rider
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Always let your engine idle for a few minutes before you change the oil, to allow the inside to be coated with oil and also to make the oil easier to flow out.
Zee
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Old 10-05-2000, 06:55 PM   #9
Avenger
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I'm sure if you had a turbo it would be better to fill up the filter before putting it on since you don't want to wear down that turbine. But if you have that little extra time why not do it..
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Old 10-05-2000, 07:26 PM   #10
stewartg2000
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ive never thought about filling the filter before installing it. ive also never added an extra 1/4qt. of oil to make up for the oil in the filter. so i guess filling the filter then adding 4qts. to the engine would work just fine. do you fill the filter all the way to the rim?

is any filter better than the other? i use fram just cause its got the easy grip on it. is there a better filter to use? or does it even matter?
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Old 10-05-2000, 07:35 PM   #11
Avenger
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This link have been posted a while ago and apparently fram have the worst filter around. Check it out. http://members.nbci.com/minimopar/oilfilterstudy.html
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Old 10-06-2000, 04:32 AM   #12
SteveS
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Thumbs up

I always put oil in the filter.
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Old 10-06-2000, 06:08 AM   #13
AndyHidley
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I always fill the filter if it mounts vertically. 99% of engine wear is caused during startup. That is the only time there should be metal to metal contact due to zero oil pressure(no RPMs). Sure there is some oil in the pump(like stated above), but why pump 1/2 quart of air into the bearings?

Now if your one of thoes "gear heads" *L* like myself, perhaps you would like to get a "Oil Pressure Accumulator". What this does is after the engine is started it has a small tank (alittle smaller than a fire extinguisher) that stores oil under pressure. Then when you shut off your engine you have a few seconds of supplied oil pressure available. So next time you start cranking your engine over the tank starts emptying and pressureizing your engine BEFORE the starter motor starts spinning the engine
http://www.mocal.co.uk/webpages/accumulators.htm

Now is it worth it? Probally if your going to keep your car for a million miles. But just about everybody here is making mods to their car (turbos, cams, blowers?, etc). Wouldent you guys be rebuilding your engine before its worn out anyway?

BlueRidgeRS... to answer your question about the bottom of the cylinder wall getting more lubrication.. Gravity is always pulling your pistons down, thus the bottom always wears slightly more. Its the same with V-8s eventhough the pistons are at an angle the outside edge wears slightly more. But I think the severity of this is determined by how hard the engine has been run in its lifetime. Thus a 2.5 with 10:1 and a turbo has way to much pressure on the rings forcing them outwards. The result will probally be even cylinder wear vs a 1600cc antique volkwagon making 36 horsepower, which will wear more on the bottom.

mechanical engineer,
Andy
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Old 10-06-2000, 06:15 AM   #14
AndyHidley
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Another thought is this: I've built several muscle cars and the INSTANT that I hit the starter key the engine fires. My 2000 RS cranks for a few seconds before firing. This will build up oil pressure before putting much pressure on the bearings. Did Subaru design this feature into the starting system for engine longevity? Or is it the lack of an accelator pump to get fuel in before it fires?
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Old 10-06-2000, 06:25 AM   #15
donjuan
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On older cars I used to simply pop the coil wire off the distributor cap so that there's no spark and crank the engine for a few seconds. This way you can build SOME oil pressure and get the oil up out of the pan with the engine only turning maybe 300 rpm rather than 1200-1500 start-up speed. Then pop the wire back on...Why some auto manufacturer hasn't come up with an electric pre-start oil pump I don't know. I guess they figure the average idiot "put gas in, turn the key, and go" driver wouldn't even use it.

AndyHidley--what does a setup like the one in that link cost?? (ballpark)
[This message has been edited by donjuan (edited October 06, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by donjuan (edited October 06, 2000).]
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Old 10-06-2000, 07:44 AM   #16
AndyHidley
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They have prices at their website but they are in pounds not dollars, you'd have to convert them.. http://www.xe.net/ucc/

There were several different models available
the mechanical ones are about $300 american
and the ones that worked electrically, with a solenoid, were about $450 american
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Old 10-06-2000, 07:47 AM   #17
AndyHidley
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donjuan... I've seen several people at car shows with 6-71 blowers on V-8s and when they would start their car you'd hear it crank for a few seconds and then they would throw a switch, energizing the ignition, and it would fire instantly. doing the same thing your talking about
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Old 10-06-2000, 08:10 AM   #18
donjuan
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cool, thanks Andy
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Old 10-06-2000, 10:34 AM   #19
Big Tee
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Unless you store it for ages, the engine would only be dry the first time it's started (and I believe the factories take steps to eliminate even that). There's always oil residue left on the bearings etc. So the 'dry firing' the engine suffers after you change the oil (a 20-30 min process)is no different than what happens when you start the car in the morning to go to work (after it's been parked for several hours).
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Old 10-06-2000, 11:22 AM   #20
AndyHidley
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Big Tee.. its not the fact thats its "dry", it isent, but its not "under pressure" until its started. And when the 1/2 quart of air (from an empty oil filter) gets pumped to bearings just as the engine gets reved up then the bearings are dry. But the 1/2 quart of air gets pumped out pretty quick. Much faster than a 1/2 quart of oil. My recommendation: Start the car and warm it up. Change the oil. Start the car up and dont rev it till the oil has circulated and filled the filter if you have'nt. Then forget about it till it needs to be changed next time!
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Old 10-06-2000, 11:26 AM   #21
Big Tee
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Andy, I must admit that I've never really considered where that air in the filter goes.
I absolutely agree with your start,idle sequence upon restarting after the oil change. Now, just where is that air going...??
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Old 10-06-2000, 11:54 AM   #22
donjuan
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Probly gets churned and mixed into some nasty gases and then vented through the PCV.
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Old 10-06-2000, 12:44 PM   #23
vinman
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hey Avenger,

Yikes!!! I've been using the Fram tough guard filters for 20K miles in my RS! But then again, I used the extra guard in my integra for 176,000 miles. Is that evidence of Fram filters doing what they were designed for or evidence of the durability of Honda engines? I don't knoooowwwww. But since there are better filters out there for the same price I might as well switch.
BTW, I always fill the filter first.
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Old 10-07-2000, 01:06 AM   #24
gumball
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Exclamation

Pumping air into the empty filter could also make a sound that some engines mistake for knocking- at least this was the cause of my '97 2.5 hesitation problems. Every oil change would trigger the hesitation and reference to HobieGary's site & the Subaru TSB lead to the possibility that the over-sensitive knock sensor/ECU were retarding the timing b/c of the new oil filter charge-up.
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Old 10-07-2000, 01:51 AM   #25
AndyHidley
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The air goes to the same place that your oil flows-TO YOUR BEARINGS!! And then it gets spilled into the crank case. Thats why i'm saying that your lubeing your bearings with NOTHING (air) for the instant that the air is pumped out. But the motor shouldent be under a load when this happens, so its no big deal...
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