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Old 05-19-2004, 08:13 PM   #1
Equilibrium Tuning
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Default How to get more camber in front?

I just got back from an alignment and the tech couldn't get the right front bellow -1.0* I'd like atleast -1.5 out of it. What could be the cause and how do I remedy this?

Thanks
-- Ed
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:25 PM   #2
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There are plenty aftermarket camber plates or bolts to do it, but staying stock that's pretty much it.

One trick is to loosen the bolts and use a jack or a strong friend to push the hub into a max negative position while you tighten everything. You may get a few extra 1/10ths like that, but mine still maxed out around -1 deg.

Last edited by leecea; 05-19-2004 at 09:47 PM.
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:28 PM   #3
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oh... I thought -1.5-2 was possible with the stock setup... I guess not.

-- Ed
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:01 PM   #4
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Mine maxed out at -1.2 stock. With camber plates set to camber+caster I can get -2.6. I could probably get over -4 if I ran the plates in camber only mode.
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:26 PM   #5
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If the tech were to have loosened the bolts and applied the correct torque to the brake disc before tightening the bolts...then I'm sure that it could have been more
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:46 PM   #6
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the strange part is that he was able to get -1.8 on the left front. Also there is almost 1* cross camber in the back (not adjustable). Looks like I'll be getting bolts and plates...
-- Ed
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Old 05-19-2004, 10:09 PM   #7
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That's really funny, because I just had an alignment this mornig and had the EXACT same problem. -1.8 degrees max on the left front, -1.0 degrees max on the right front.... I was a little disppointed but oh well. I guess I'll have to pick up a set of camber bolts and have them align the front again sometime.
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Old 05-19-2004, 11:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vaus
oh... I thought -1.5-2 was possible with the stock setup... I guess not.

-- Ed
Quote:
Originally posted by Vaus
the strange part is that he was able to get -1.8 on the left front. Also there is almost 1* cross camber in the back (not adjustable). Looks like I'll be getting bolts and plates...
-- Ed
Sounds like something is bent; you shouldn't have -1.8* camber on one side and not the other; granted you shouldn't have over about -1.2 or at the VERY most -1.4. You might have a bent swaybar, strut, hub, something in there to cause that. Been offroading or had any bad impacts? That's my guess.

If you believe that the car is mechanically perfect, just do it with crash bolts (reason for the name crash you know!) and/or camber plates.
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Old 05-20-2004, 12:37 AM   #9
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The car was recently in a slight collision but on the right front side not left. Do I just need camber bolts or do I need plates as well for the front. Also, my cross caster is -.8* Is this excessive and what can be done?

-- Ed
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Old 05-20-2004, 12:46 AM   #10
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Sorta sounds ghetto but my alignment guy grinded out the hub and strut to get me to -1.5 in the front and almost to -1.5 in the rear.

Works fine for me and I trust him that he knows his ish. He's been doing it for almost 20 years w/o computers. Keepin' it old skool

-mykr.
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Old 05-20-2004, 01:01 AM   #11
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i used camberbolts from subydude to get front set to -1.5,
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Old 05-20-2004, 01:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vaus
The car was recently in a slight collision but on the right front side not left. Do I just need camber bolts or do I need plates as well for the front. Also, my cross caster is -.8* Is this excessive and what can be done?

-- Ed
I've seen things get bent from a collision that didn't make sense...I still hold to my theory. Especially if you didn't have an alignment before the collision.

Bent strut on the right front, everything looked fine...but left front wheel was all out of whack. On inspection things looked fine...but they weren't. Took us a while to figure it out.
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Old 05-20-2004, 08:37 AM   #13
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Well my car's mechanically perfect though, I still have the same problem.... before we touched the car yesterday the rear camber was -1.2 L / -1.3 R. Front was -0.3 L / -0.4 R.

I won't lose any sleep over it, good reason to buy camber plates now
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Old 05-20-2004, 09:46 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by tundra
Well my car's mechanically perfect though, I still have the same problem.... before we touched the car yesterday the rear camber was -1.2 L / -1.3 R. Front was -0.3 L / -0.4 R.

I won't lose any sleep over it, good reason to buy camber plates now
Tundra,

You don't have a HUGE difference between L and R in the front, which is what I was saying was the result of some sort of collision, accident, mishap, etc. Yours sounds perfectly normal to me.
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Old 05-20-2004, 06:04 PM   #15
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Another issue is that my rears are at -1.9* and -1.1* left and right respectively. Since these aren't adjustable, I would imagine they SHOULD be very close. If I just get a set of bolts for the back and front and get it close to my spec and evened out, should I still worry about possible mechanical issues? In other words, would adjusting with camber bolts be a band-aid to a bigger problem?

How does castor effect handling and drivability and how can it be adjusted?

One more thing, for toe values, are negative degrees toe in or toe out?

Thanks for all the help
-- Ed
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Old 05-20-2004, 07:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vaus
Another issue is that my rears are at -1.9* and -1.1* left and right respectively. Since these aren't adjustable, I would imagine they SHOULD be very close. If I just get a set of bolts for the back and front and get it close to my spec and evened out, should I still worry about possible mechanical issues? In other words, would adjusting with camber bolts be a band-aid to a bigger problem?

How does castor effect handling and drivability and how can it be adjusted?

One more thing, for toe values, are negative degrees toe in or toe out?

Thanks for all the help
-- Ed
It could be a bandaid to a particular problem, but not necessarily. My guess is though in the rear it should be even. Had any mishaps? If not then don't fret over it too much; yours isn't *that* abnormal. There are others in your boat. Use the bolts and worry about it if something comes up later honestly, especially if it's just a street driven car. If you race it competitively, I'd do a very thorough search of the rear suspension for the culprit though. If it feels fine, there's a good chance that it's nothing to worry about.

Caster and camber values from the factory are usually uneven due to uneven road surfaces; manufacturers make it that way. I don't know what sort of logic this is, but I'm not a fan.

Caster: Kind of like dynamic camber. The easiest way (not necessarily correct) way to think of it is the more you turn, the more camber it adds on its on to the tire, making static camber less necessary. You can go too far to where your contact patch is reduced at full turning capability, but you're far from it. Most folks who add caster to their car love it.

Toe values: Negative == toe in, positive == toe out.
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Old 05-21-2004, 01:42 AM   #17
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I haven't really had any major mishaps. I do drive the car very hard in the mountains and have hit larger bumps on occasion, but I wouldn't expect that to damage the suspension.

The car is street driven but tracked occasianally, so I'd like to find the problem. What major areas should I check?

Interesting about the castor, while my right front has 1.1* more positive camber than my left, it also has 0.8* more caster. I was actually very surprised how well the car handled even in left turns. I guess the castor explains it. I guess I shouldn't have gotten so mad at the alignment guy when he set the camber so far apart left to right.

As far as toe, my fronts are 0'd out, but he set my rears for -.02* which is toe in. I read that a slight toe out in the rear could help rotate the car in tight turns. How extreme of a difference is it?

Thanks
-- Ed
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:03 AM   #18
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Slight toe out in the rear will help. Why toe in for the rear? 0 toe in the front is good; it will help with straight-line stability.

Caster is typically not going to be equal left and right; it's just built that way. You can get camber/caster plates if you're looking for more and are unsatisfied with what you have, but otherwise just accept it and move on.
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