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Old 05-19-2004, 09:24 PM   #1
ebeck
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Have a Nice Day? Failure rate in 5mt gone down? Sure seems like it.

I have been looking in here off and on for over a year. Where I saw on average failure a week, I now see none or hardly any. Well gear sets breaking that is. Last summer was the the summer of breakage for sure.

I read on the fourm somewhere a change was made late 03 in the 5mt to reduce breakage, but for the life of my I can not find that thread. I wanted to ask if anybody knew what that change was? The 04 has been out alomst a year now, and I see problems with 02 and fewer with 03 and even fewer with late 03 and into 04 models. I still want a new gearset for the sporting factor however.

Is this my imagination or has the failure rate gone down as the model year has gone up? For what ever reason?
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:45 PM   #2
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I think you are seeing a "distorted" version of reality.
First of all, people only post on bulletin board when they have problems, so naturally, you don't hear from the owners who never had any problems with their transmission.
Secondly, this is an "enthusiast" board. People are more likely to be handling their cars a little more "enthusiastically". More abuse = more failures.
Thirdly, 2002 cars are around a little longer. So there are more of them to be broken, and they also have more miles on them.
But it could also be a result of better materials and designs.
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle with everything contributing a little bit.

Last edited by Karl; 05-19-2004 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 05-20-2004, 01:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Failure rate in 5mt gone down? Sure seems like it.

Quote:
Originally posted by ebeck
I have been looking in here off and on for over a year. Where I saw on average failure a week, I now see none or hardly any. Well gear sets breaking that is. Last summer was the the summer of breakage for sure.

I read on the fourm somewhere a change was made late 03 in the 5mt to reduce breakage, but for the life of my I can not find that thread. I wanted to ask if anybody knew what that change was? The 04 has been out alomst a year now, and I see problems with 02 and fewer with 03 and even fewer with late 03 and into 04 models. I still want a new gearset for the sporting factor however.

Is this my imagination or has the failure rate gone down as the model year has gone up? For what ever reason?
Clutch slave cylinder, and something else was added.... I forget. I agree that the number of "help! I broke my tranny" thread's has gone down signifiganty in the past year or so..

Here's a thread about it: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...slave+cylinder
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Old 05-20-2004, 07:52 AM   #4
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Remember summer is just starting, I'm sure there will be some more post with broken trannys as people switch to stickies.
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Old 05-20-2004, 07:59 AM   #5
Karl
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Maybe the lesson has been learned.
A little mechanical sympathy goes a long way.
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Old 05-20-2004, 08:33 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Karl
Maybe the lesson has been learned.
A little mechanical sympathy goes a long way.
i was gonna say the same thing. maybe people are finally learning that dumping your clutch at high rpms is not good for an AWD. (i still really don't understand why most people couldn't figure that one out on their own).
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Old 05-20-2004, 09:16 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by 04Scooby_Rex
i was gonna say the same thing. maybe people are finally learning that dumping your clutch at high rpms is not good for an AWD. (i still really don't understand why most people couldn't figure that one out on their own).
cause its oh so much fun, but I am sure the new drag season will bring a whole bunch of 04's trannys to the grave yard.
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Old 05-20-2004, 03:02 PM   #8
ebeck
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Yeah, perhaps people are being more carfull. But what about the 20 year old who buys on and drags every camry he pulls up to who is not a board member. Failure usually prompts searches and they land here on the board. Fewer are landing.

Perhaps all the tranny breakers bought thier cars early as they were drawn to them and now all the non tranny breakers are now buying as that is all that is left. Nah, something is up. Something is different. Hardening perhaps?

I do not know, I do know fewer seem to be breaking and I have not seen late 03 and 04's. 90% of the cars I saw and have seen have been pre 03. I even searched and did basic research. There were no shortage of cars with few miles on them breaking, pure stock by old ladies. I searched the failure forum. Again perhaps all the liars bought early. "The I did not abuse it crowd" Nah, something is up. Something is different. I would bet on it.

I do not buy the "Everybody is now aware of the glass jaw reputation and is now driving more carfully" That is giving people alot of credit. People can not even turn off faucets in public restrooms. That is why they had to invent spring loaded handles.

Just my rambelig theory with no proof. Just a hunch.
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Old 05-20-2004, 08:17 PM   #9
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Perhaps some of the issues from abuse or defectective parts have been fixed with good and or updated parts.
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Old 05-20-2004, 11:10 PM   #10
Mike Wevrick
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There was definitely a valve added in 03 or late 02 that prevents clutch-dropping. That may be a lot of it.
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Old 05-21-2004, 02:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Wevrick
There was definitely a valve added in 03 or late 02 that prevents clutch-dropping. That may be a lot of it.
And it sure does suck to release the clutch too fast, and have that valve bog you down.

However I'd gladly have that than a blown tranny.
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Old 05-21-2004, 08:30 PM   #12
ebeck
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Quote:
There was definitely a valve added in 03 or late 02 that prevents clutch-dropping. That may be a lot of it.
Yep that it would. Definitly explains the first gear.

Does not explain the reduced/eliminated second third gears however. Second/third seemed to be the more common failure if I remember correctly.
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Old 05-21-2004, 09:54 PM   #13
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Maybe some fellow owners have figured out that our cars are not meant to be a drag racer; therefore reducing failures. Either that or people stopped complaining because they knew it would get them nowhere.
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Old 05-21-2004, 11:01 PM   #14
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While the tranny is rather weak by design, I've had an impression that it may be a quality control issue as well. Obviously some owners are dishonest and lie about the abuse they put on their trannies, but there must be plenty of honest owners that broke their trannies with stock power and sensible driving style. Such a failure is not explainable by the design flaw, and it's a sharp contrast to some of the people that modded the crap out of their cars and still pulled off a decent life time from their trannies. Which leads me to believe that there had to be some QC problem. Maybe they got this QC issue fixed??
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Old 05-22-2004, 07:18 AM   #15
Karl
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Does anyone have real numbers of transmission failures?
For the amount of "failures" we read on here, I think the real numbers is not as high as some people think.
Like everthing we hear in the media, if we believe everything we read/hear, we would think we are all dying from some kind of diseases, and there are con men scamming everyone on the block, and the sky is falling, etc.
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Old 05-22-2004, 11:57 PM   #16
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Hey, what did the new slave cylinder do? I need to get a new one, mine crapped out. Does the new one help the life of the tranny by its redesign? Twice Ive gone to drive my car after it was hot, and I couldnt get it in gear, nor would the clutch release. I hope the new one solves this.
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Old 05-23-2004, 07:41 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by ebeck
Yep that it would. Definitly explains the first gear.

Does not explain the reduced/eliminated second third gears however. Second/third seemed to be the more common failure if I remember correctly.
Second gear is on the end of the shaft. So, when you put lots of torque on that shaft, it's more likely to bend or twist in second gear. If you bend that shaft enough, second gear will just shatter. Third gear is next in line.
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Old 05-23-2004, 10:42 PM   #18
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I believe that at least some of it is people expect their trannies to go so they dont complain about it and alot of people get new gearsets before pushing the stock one.
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Old 05-24-2004, 03:47 PM   #19
ebeck
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Shaft flex theory is my belief. Actually not a belief but a known fact to me. Many argue and debate. I would be curious to comapre an 02 and an 04 gear shaft. Also, hardening reduces breakage in the event of flex as flex causes teeth to engage un-evenly.

QC seems to be a big one for me too. Why some broke and some did not is a mystery. AZScoobie shattered his rear ring and pinion but the stock 5mt is still ticking. Do you know what it takes to break a rear end? Some blew out the gear box with no miles on the car. Some by ladies in foresters etc... Sure, perhaps they were lying too and was dragging that 5.0 with 2 kids in the back.

I do not know about actual failure rates, and will never know, no one will tell you, and if they do, they are lying. I do know it is the same gear box that was in the 50hp Justy (if I remember right) so it was never designed for big power. Hey, that is why they responded with the 6mt right?

If mine broke, I would not complain, but I would still post about it. I am guessing QC and some hardening perhaps. We will never know. I do know failures on this forum has gone down.............
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:50 AM   #20
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Default Re: Failure rate in 5mt gone down? Sure seems like it.

Quote:
Originally posted by ebeck
I have been looking in here off and on for over a year. Where I saw on average failure a week, I now see none or hardly any. Well gear sets breaking that is. Last summer was the the summer of breakage for sure.

I read on the fourm somewhere a change was made late 03 in the 5mt to reduce breakage, but for the life of my I can not find that thread. I wanted to ask if anybody knew what that change was? The 04 has been out alomst a year now, and I see problems with 02 and fewer with 03 and even fewer with late 03 and into 04 models. I still want a new gearset for the sporting factor however.

Is this my imagination or has the failure rate gone down as the model year has gone up? For what ever reason?
cuz less people are buying wrxs...



jk
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:43 AM   #21
kenchan
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I think people have more respect for the car nowadays and
know to be easy on the tranny.
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Old 05-25-2004, 01:16 PM   #22
ebeck
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Possible kenchan. That explains 1st gear but not 2-4. I am still going with the JDM 6mt and rear subframe though.
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:56 PM   #23
kenchan
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Why not 2-4? You can still damage them if you powershift or
smash the clutch onto those gears.
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Old 05-27-2004, 02:58 PM   #24
ebeck
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Sure, I was thinking clutch drops. You are right for sure. I still say something is up though. No way all the sucky clutch jockies bought 2 years ago. No way the "word" has spread so far that everybody who has ever seen a WRX knows about the GB.

More people are buying these cars than ever. Many people do not even know you can upgrade them. Many know about the car before they bought them except for the Lance armstrong commercials where the car is sliding around.

No way ALL new buyers are good with the clutch and have mechanical sympathy. More so than the crowd who bought 2 years ago? The argument simply does not make sense.

The simplest solution is usually the correct solution. Either all the stars have lined up right and people have changed behavior through word of mouth and still buy the car despite potential problems with the gb or Subaru has changed something.

Anybody seen the inside of a new 04 5mt? Is the gear color different or are the teeth bigger?
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Old 05-27-2004, 05:12 PM   #25
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I've done pleanty of clutch drops in my 95. Only burned a clutch. Then again, this poor car doesn't have enough power to damage a tranny.
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