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Old 05-26-2004, 10:44 AM   #1
KC
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Default July Fastrack is Out - ST Changes

Proposals for 1/1/2005 (write your letters and address them to the SEB/STAC!)

SOLO II STREET TOURING CATEGORY
Competitors are reminded that 13.3.B does apply to the ST category; a tire model which is not available by the April 30th deadline is not eligible for use in ST classes at National events. This may affect the 2004 eligibility of the Hankook Ventus Z212.

The STAC has suggested reminding Regional programs that they are free to implement additional allowances, particularly regarding boost control, for Regional level events.

The following rule change proposals are submitted for member comment:

ITEM 5) Effective 1/1/2005, add to 14.2.B: "OE seats which contain integral airbags may not be replaced."

Defeats the purpose of having racing seats allowed in ST. I'm against this rule. It should be all cars allowed to replace seats or none.

ITEM 6) Effective 1/1/2005, add to 14.11.A.8: "Brake backing plates (dust shields) plates may be modified the minimum amount necessary to accommodate allowed alternate rotors and calipers."

ITEM 7) Effective 1/1/2005, add to 14.10.C: "Alternate oxygen sensors, including heated types and the wiring to facilitate them, are permitted." NOTE: This permits 3-wire and 4-wire sensors.

The following classing change proposal is submitted for member input:

ITEM 8) Effective 1/1/2005, move all AWD vehicles to STX.

NO!!! The 2.5RS is no longer the overdog in STS. Why move it? It's not competitive with an STX WRX or any STX cars. It's no longer classed like it once was with the Type-R in stock, it can never keep up in STX trim either, and it still has a hard time keeping up with STS prepped Civics.

The following items from the STX allowances are proposed to be applied to the entire ST category, into the sections shown, effective 1/1/2005:

ITEM 9) From 14.11.A.1.B (to 14.2.E)
"Camber kits, also known as camber compensators, may be installed. These kits consist of either adjustable length arms or arm mounts that provide an adjustment to the effective length of a control arm. Alignment outside the factory specifications is allowed. The following restrictions apply:

1. On double/unequal arm suspensions, only the upper arms OR lower arms may be modified or replaced, but not both.

2.On arm-and-strut (MacPherson/Chapman) suspensions, the lower arms may be modified/replaced OR other methods of camber adjustment as allowed by paragraphs 14.8 B., C., or D. may be used, but not both.

3. On swing or trailing arm suspensions, the main arms may not be modified but locating links/arms may be modified or replaced.

4. The replacement arms or mounts must attach to the original mounting points. All bushings must meet the requirements of

14.8 B. The knuckle/bearing housing/spindle assembly cannot be modified or replaced."

ITEM 10) From 14.11.A.7 (to 14.8)
"Suspension bump stops may be altered or removed."

ITEM 11) From 14.11.A.9 (to 14.6)
"Original equipment ABS braking systems may be electrically disabled, but not removed or altered in any other way."

ITEM 12) From 14.11.A.10 (to 14.10)
"Original equipment traction control systems may be electrically disabled, but not removed or altered in any other way."
------
I'm for everything except for 5 & 8. Those are stpes backwards, IMHO.

More from the Fastrack....
TECH BULLETINS (These rules are now in effect)

4) Street Touring: Per STAC recommendation, the Pirelli P Zero Corsa is added to the ST tire exclusion list.

5) Street Touring: An OE spoiler may not be removed unless the model was available from the factory without a spoiler. (ref. 04-149)

6) Street Touring: Relocation of the oxygen sensor on the header is permitted under 14.10.C.

7) Street Touring: The "Works" Mini Cooper S is added to the STU inclusion list.

8) Street Touring: 14.6.B should read "B. Brake lines may be substituted with alternate DOT approved flexible brake lines." (ref. 04-218)

9) Street Touring: 14.2.C should read: "C. Removal of factory trim (rub strips, emblems, mud flaps) is allowed." (ref. 04-218)

10) Street Touring: 14.10.C should read: "C. Exhaust manifolds and headers may be replaced with alternate units that are emissions legal" (ref. 04-218)
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:15 AM   #2
del105
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Quote:
ITEM 5) Effective 1/1/2005, add to 14.2.B: "OE seats which contain integral airbags may not be replaced."
This is BS


Quote:
5) Street Touring: An OE spoiler may not be removed unless the model was available from the factory without a spoiler. (ref. 04-149)
This is also BS
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:21 AM   #3
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Glad I haven't ponird up the money for seats yet, although that might just be the final nail in ST to send me to SP. Airbags seats weight a TON so it' would benefit those seats most.

All AWD cars in STX is a joke. That is unless they allow front diffs to be added. Then the RS might have a chance on the right course.

Pathetic. They can't leave well enough alone. First STS2 is just another Miata/MR2 class and now these stupid rules.
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:22 AM   #4
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I sent my e-mail/letter in already.

--kC
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:28 AM   #5
del105
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Im really gonna have to write them now. I can live with the stupid air bag seats as much as I don't want to, But making me keep the giant STi wing is crossing the line.
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:29 AM   #6
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"4) Street Touring: Per STAC recommendation, the Pirelli P Zero Corsa is added to the ST tire exclusion list."

What's the reasoning on this one KC?
There is one model of this tire (215/45/17) that meets the 140 treadwear threshold......

BriDrive
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:38 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by BriDrive
"4) Street Touring: Per STAC recommendation, the Pirelli P Zero Corsa is added to the ST tire exclusion list."

What's the reasoning on this one KC?
There is one model of this tire (215/45/17) that meets the 140 treadwear threshold......

BriDrive
That's the exact reason....they fall back on the stock rules for multiple sizes available "to use" for all different cars in the class. Since there's only one tire available with the 140 treadware.. bzzzt... not legal for ST.

--kC
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:41 AM   #8
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Default Re: July Fastrack is Out - ST Changes

Quote:
Originally posted by KC


ITEM 8) Effective 1/1/2005, move all AWD vehicles to STX.
OK, we could use everyone's help on this one... AGAIN! This is horrible. I thought the nail was already in this coffin but it just keeps comming up. PLEASE write.

BTW... are we still sending our email to dgill@scca.com ?

Corey #89 STS
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:45 AM   #9
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Yes. I need to see if I can get the minuted to the town hall meeting from last year when I brought this up to the SEB.

"No, we never considered it."

By the way, it was Aug 2002 Fastrack, Page F-187, Item 24.

That change should die a flaming death... it's been a one sided debate that the 2.5RS (nor any other AWD cars in STS) is of no harm in STS for Solo-II. The 2.5RS is the only competitve one, and not, by any means an overdog... and moving it to STX... would be a nail in the coffin to all STS AWD cars.

I have a suspiscion that it's linked to the 2.5RS in ProSolo.. but that cannot be proved... and Solo-II classing should not be done, at all, based on ProSolo results.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 05-26-2004 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:49 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by KC
That's the exact reason....they fall back on the stock rules for multiple sizes available "to use" for all different cars in the class. Since there's only one tire available with the 140 treadware.. bzzzt... not legal for ST.

--kC
Explain the RE070 ans A046 then. It's really an R tire.

What you've got with the Zero Corsa is a misprint on the tire.
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:53 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Orion
Explain the RE070 ans A046 then. It's really an R tire.

What you've got with the Zero Corsa is a misprint on the tire.
Good and valid points. However, those tires comes as OE equipment on cars, and are legal. If the P-Zero corsa was an OEM tire on any ST car, then it should also be legal.

Quote:
13.3 Any tire which is O.E.M. on a car eligible for Stock Category may be used. Non-O.E.M. tires must meet the following requirements to be eligible for use in Stock category:
The P-Zero Corsa in that one size actually has a greater tread depth than the others... and that line is considered a 'Compeition' Tire instead of a "Max Performance Summer Tire" like the RE070 and the A046.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 05-26-2004 at 12:01 PM.
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Old 05-26-2004, 12:01 PM   #12
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gotcha.

i love my OEM tires.
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Old 05-26-2004, 12:21 PM   #13
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Question - if I understand Federal Safety regulations correctly, front airbags are required by Federal regulations, but side airbags are not? If this is the case, the SCCA's proposed seat rule would go beyond Federal safety requirements.

-Steve
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Old 05-26-2004, 12:35 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by MNbiker
Question - if I understand Federal Safety regulations correctly, front airbags are required by Federal regulations, but side airbags are not? If this is the case, the SCCA's proposed seat rule would go beyond Federal safety requirements.

-Steve
Put that in your letter that you'll write.
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Old 05-26-2004, 01:04 PM   #15
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Corey, I'll be sending my letter. After driving my own car and Billy's (very nicely set up) RS back to back at the Topeka Pro, I can't believe that an STX move is still being discussed. The 2.5 RS is perfectly fine in STS, and I haven't seen any results that would support moving it.

The suggested seat rule seems unfair. If they have a problem with people getting rid of their side airbags, then make everybody keep their stock seats.
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Old 05-26-2004, 01:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Effective 1/1/2005, add to 14.11.A.8: "Brake backing plates (dust shields) plates may be modified the minimum amount necessary to accommodate allowed alternate rotors and calipers."
Oh nOs, w/o this my car is illegal this year

I'll be writing a letter too. KC, can you forward me yours as I'm too lazy to write one from scrach? I have a slight feeling both of ours will basically the same

-Tom
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Old 05-26-2004, 01:12 PM   #17
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Quote:
STAC & SEB:

I read with intrest the latest Fastrack for July in regards to the proposed rule changes for 1/1/05 for Street Touring.

I'm fine with most of them except two, Items 5 and 8.

Item 5 is the suggestion that OE Seats with airbags cannot be changed.
This defeats the existing rule and places a hardship on those who have already made the purchase/investment of buying race seats for the 2004 season (as allowed by the rules) for their previously OE air-bag equipped seat in their ST car. My suggestion is instead of implementing a rule only for cars with integrated airbacgs in their seats (which is becoming more common these days) to eliminate the race seat rule all-together to let all cars be on equal footing as far as seats go, or... continue to allow ANY seat to be ussed as long as it fits within the current rules (which would be no change to the existing rule). I say do not allow this rule change.

Item 8 (All AWD into STX) is near and dear to my heart (I have brought this subject up at the past 2 Town Hall meetings and have been told... we (the SEB) never considered it.. must have just been the STAC then). It's been considered before (Aug 2002 Fastrack, Page F-187, Item 24) and for some reason was never finally ruled upon or sent to the SEB for a decision, I'd like to think member comment was the reason.

For years, the 2.5RS and the Integra Type-R were in the same stock class, and were never, ever competitive in times driven by top talent at national Solo-II event. (I will not deny they do better at ProSolos... but are still not the overdogs) The 2.5RS found a home in STS, away from the Integra Type-R where they could do well. Now, the Subaru 2.5RS is competitive in STS along with a myriad of other cars (hardly any AWD are compeitive there)... and you want to move it (and all the other STS-classed AWD cars) into a class where they will definitely no longer be competitive, just as they aren't now nor in the past, with the WRX and ITR. You're taking a GS/HS car(s) and moving them into a DS+ (What I call STX) class. I suggest the SEB/STAC continue to look at AWD cars on a case by case basis as they are produced, or through results over the years and class them as they have. This would have a drastic impact both locally and nationally. I say do not allow this rule change.

Sincerely,
Keith Casey
SCCA NER Member #R273269
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Old 05-26-2004, 01:27 PM   #18
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Default Re: Re: July Fastrack is Out - ST Changes

Quote:
Originally posted by Corey
are we still sending our email to dgill@scca.com ?
Is this the correct email? I will write for ya Corey...even if it is just because I don't want you guys in my class

Kevin
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Old 05-26-2004, 01:33 PM   #19
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Default Re: July Fastrack is Out - ST Changes

Quote:
Originally posted by KC
5) Street Touring: An OE spoiler may not be removed unless the model was available from the factory without a spoiler. (ref. 04-149)
This of coarse allows to change of a wing, correct? just not totally removing it.
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Old 05-26-2004, 01:37 PM   #20
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Default Re: Re: July Fastrack is Out - ST Changes

Quote:
Originally posted by Corey
BTW... are we still sending our email to dgill@scca.com ?
Send to seb@scca.com and copy dgill@scca.com.

-Steve
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Old 05-26-2004, 01:50 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by trojan9x
This of coarse allows to change of a wing, correct? just not totally removing it.
Good catch. Yes, the exact way its worded is that you cannot remove, it completely. It does not say anything about not being able to replace it though (for a WRX wing), which another rule allows

-Tom
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Old 05-26-2004, 02:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Good catch. Yes, the exact way its worded is that you cannot remove, it completely. It does not say anything about not being able to replace it though (for a WRX wing), which another rule allows
Tom, are you sure? because if I have to go back to the giant wing I'll ...

andrew
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Old 05-26-2004, 02:10 PM   #23
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Quote:
Good catch. Yes, the exact way its worded is that you cannot remove, it completely
i agree this is the intent, but i'm not sure as its written this is true. you have to remove the original to afix the "body kit". and you can't do something illegal to complete a legal mod. methinks it needs rewording. and i can't believe they're trying to move the RS again. foolishness. I think Pat demonstrated quite effectively it just can't compete in STX last year.
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Old 05-26-2004, 02:18 PM   #24
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LIttle OT, but why did you cancel DC KC?
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Old 05-26-2004, 02:26 PM   #25
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KC,

Do you have a snail mail address? I can type up a letter of support as well and send it along in the mail. Those are harder to ignore.
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