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Old 03-30-2005, 02:02 AM   #26
DougM
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Mitsubishi EVO IX

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I'm at about 13 3/4" rear (350mm) and about 14 1/4" front (362mm). the front might be a little higher, I'll have to check.

[noob]interesting about the helper/tender springs, and thanks for the super quick response. straight from the horses mouth even so the helper springs don't actually help on the "compression" side of the equation... [/noob]
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Old 03-30-2005, 07:58 AM   #27
WL Flatout
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Hello,
Helper spring being completely compressed at full droop is not a problem. All this means, is that the ride height that is being used requires the bottom spring platform to be wound up high enough to compress the helper spring, and therefore at this particular ride height the helper spring is redundant. However, if a lower ride height is set, then the helper spring will extent and will not be completely compressed at full droop, and will therefore serve its only purpose of preloading the main spring. At normal ride height, the helper spring is doing nothing. The spring rate is that of the main spring only.
The height of the bottom spring platform does not alter the amount of suspension droop. This is a function of the shock absorber open length, it in itself the sum of shock absorber body length and shock absorber stroke.

Hope this clears it up.

Regards,
Wojtek.
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Old 03-30-2005, 08:50 AM   #28
duncangrant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WL Flatout
The height of the bottom spring platform does not alter the amount of suspension droop.
Wojtek.
I think you're wrong there. The height of the bottom platform changes the vehicle body height and that means changing the proportion of bump and droop travel. Higher = more bump and less droop.
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Old 03-30-2005, 05:34 PM   #29
WL Flatout
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duncan,

Are you talking about absolute droop or relative droop?

Wojtek.
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Old 04-07-2005, 12:51 AM   #30
DougM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougM
.....while adjusting the ride height up to a "normal working range"
back to this again.
I've put a few miles on these so I thought I'd dial in the ride height to more exatly where I want it. One of the spring platforms (rear, driver's side) is completely seized up. I can turn it easily one half of a turn (forward and back) and then that is it. This is after completely cleaning off the (exposed) threads, I tried some lubricant, and the anti-seize goop supplied.... I even took out the allen head stop screw and sprayed lubricant in there, worked it back and forth... I don't know what else to do, it's still sitting 17mm lower in the rear than where I want it.

I'm feeling a little worked over right now too... I need a garage lift... well, at least a drink.

hope you have some ideas!
Thanks
Doug
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Old 04-07-2005, 02:25 AM   #31
WL Flatout
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Hi,

Doug,
That's not good. There is a rubber plug inside the grub screw, which might have got jammed in between the threads. Try a LOT of lubrication, use WD40, followed by blowing with compressed air, followed by carefully rotating the plaform only as much as you can without excessive force... and repeating this quite a few times. You can use two adjuster tools (8mm rod, drill bit, phillips screw driver... all work well) to spread the load and prevent platform holes damage. If you do this, you should be able to work the platform loose.
Good luck and hope it works out for you. Keep us posted.

Duncan,
Still waiting on your clarification.

Regards,
Wojtek.
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Old 04-07-2005, 12:25 PM   #32
DougM
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yeah, I thought I got the rubber stop out of there ok, it looked like it was in one piece, but I suppose it wouldn't take much of it coming off to mess things up. I used ballistol lubricant and worked it back and forth for probably close to an hour last night, long enough for my arms to fall off anyways. No luck. Ballistol is non toxic though, so maybe it doesn't have the solvent qualities I need. AVS suggested denatured Alcohol (?) or maybe some good anti-seaze spray from the auto store? I have some WD40, I'll give that a try also.
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Old 04-07-2005, 03:06 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WL Flatout
Duncan,
Still waiting on your clarification.

Regards,
Wojtek.
Sorry to keep you waiting Wojtek, I'd forgotten all about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WL Flatout
The height of the bottom spring platform does not alter the amount of suspension droop.
Wojtek.
Perhaps you'd like to explain what kind of droop you were talking about then. I've never heard of anyone distinguishing absolute from relative droop before so I'm happy to learn something. In my basic understanding droop is the movement of the wheel as the suspension moves from static to fully extended, so I guess that would be 'absolute'. I'd like to hear what the other kind is though.

Duncan
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Old 04-07-2005, 11:53 PM   #34
DougM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WL Flatout
Keep us posted
woo hoo, I GOT IT
took me probably 3 hours off and on, working it back and forth, but I finally got it. took about 3/4 of a can of WD40 also....

now I'm REALLY tired.
car is about where I want it now, I think I actually raised the rear a tad too much, one final adjustment and I think I have it. need to wait for my arms to recover. chiropractor appointment tomorrow (yeah, I'm old, it hurts to type even)

thanks for you input, without it I think I would of given up and torched the whole darn thing
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Old 04-08-2005, 01:13 AM   #35
Arnie
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Whew! Yeah, I've had issues with the rear adjuster as well. Perhaps a split collar design (similar to, gasp, Ground Control) might be better in the future? That way it opens up wider (theoretically) and might make things easier to adjust. It would be great if it would, naturally, match the threading of our current setup so we can do a low cost retro fit. Something to think about!

Other than that, how are you liking the ride/performance of the Group 4's compared to the stock STi?
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Old 04-08-2005, 01:33 AM   #36
DougM
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I've forgotten what the stock ride was like, firm but bouncy if memory serves. the ride on these feels about as firm as stock, maybe a little more and NO bounce. nice and solid.

I most recently had JIC FLTA2's on the car. that was a very firm ride, jarring and uncomfortable, in my opinion. I think moving to the GroupN top hats (from the solid JIC design) has made the steering less responsive, but... I haven't had the car aligned yet so I'm still holding off on writing a "performace" review. I'll do that next week and autox it next weekend and let you all know what I think.

fyi, the JIC's are a split collar design, they had their drawbacks (coming lose), but they never did get stuck.
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Old 04-08-2005, 02:17 AM   #37
Arnie
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great! I look forward to further ride and performance impressions as you put more miles on the car. You've had a good variety of suspension setups between the stock STi and the JIC's. It will be good to see how you think they perform in comparison to both setups on a variety of conditions.
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Old 04-08-2005, 03:13 AM   #38
WL Flatout
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Hi,

Doug, we're happy to hear that you managed, with big effort and persistance, to get the plaforms loose again and fine tune the Group'4 kit.
Looking forward to your impressions after autox.

Regards,
Wojtek.
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Old 04-08-2005, 07:52 PM   #39
grippgoat
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I thought the JICs were like the Teins, in that they had two solid rings that you jam against each other to keep them in place? I've found with my Teins, I have to put well north of 100ft-lbs of torque on them to keep them in place. Thankfully teins wrenches have a 1/2" square hold for connecting a ratchet/torque wrench.

Ground Control's design has a collar that's like a 'C', and a set screw pulls the 'C' closed to make it clamp against the threads. On 3 cars I've owned with ground controls, I've never had one come loose, and never had one get stuck on me, even on a VERY dirty car with tons of miles. The only drawback to that approach is if the exact height you want leaves the screw in a hard-to-reach place. But for street vehicles, it's usually ok to turn it a 1/4 turn to get the screw where you can reach it, and still be plenty close to your ideal height. Also, ground controls threads where larger than a lot of other applications I've seen, and they were square in profile instead of triangular.

-Mike

EDIT: clarified my GC description
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