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Old 06-01-2004, 05:14 AM   #1
MarkA
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Default RallyCross Street Tire Question

After a couple patches/plugs, I’m ditching my RE-92’s on my daily driver/Rally-X car. My question to all you Rally gurus is that for RallyCross, which of these two tires should work better for the street tire class.

Option A

Option B.

I figure either one will get the commuting part of the job done so I just want to know which one to pick (or if there's anything else anyone would recommend) for the Rally-X's that the car sees.

I've read before that the KDWS ("Option B") works well for Rally-X but the Traction T/A ("Option A") appear to have a lot of edges and, to me at least, looks more like a Rally-type of tire.

Thanks!
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Old 06-01-2004, 08:56 AM   #2
akuhner
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What's the surface you run on mostly? I'd say pickup a set of snow tires, but in SoCal they'd build up cobwebs between events!

Alex
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Old 06-01-2004, 08:57 AM   #3
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Neither choice is going to be noticeably better than the RE92s at Rally-X. Do they allow snow tires in street tire class? They do in New England, and they'll take several seconds off your times (Nordmans are almost as good as a real rally tire, that's what Tim O'Neil uses at his rally school.) Also there are some DOT approved rally tires but I don't know any regions that allow them in street/production class.

Tarmac and gravel have two conflicting requirements for tire design. If they allow snows in street class, I suggest buying a second set of tires and rims just for rally-x. If you only want a single set for both street and rally-x, then pick the tires you want based on your street driving preferences, and lower the pressure to mid-20s for rally-x (and be prepared when you knock a tire off the rim.) Stay with all-seasons, summer tires at a rally-x are like driving on glass. And trust me, you won't be happy with snow tires as your street tire in So Cal...

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Old 06-01-2004, 11:34 AM   #4
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MarkA,
Call me, I'll get you set up with a wheel tire package just used for rally-X (used rally tires), Whatever you do, do not run low pressure at rally-X in cali. I reccomend abouty 40psi if you dont want to lose the bead, no guarentees, just less likely. You really need rally tires to attack a venue like tombstone!

Scott
gravel crew
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Old 06-01-2004, 12:46 PM   #5
MarkA
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No snow tires in street class here - thanks for the input though.


Scott - Thanks for the offer but I don't really want to invest in dedicated Rally tires and rims yet.
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Old 06-01-2004, 12:59 PM   #6
jibco
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With just those two options... Looks like A would be better.

If you want a tire that will handle loose stuff better that the 92's, but still nice driving to work. try the HTR+'s. You can rotate them normally too.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....reModel=HTR%2B

What wheels are you mounting the tires on? stock?
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Old 06-01-2004, 01:03 PM   #7
MarkA
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Quote:
Originally posted by jibco


What wheels are you mounting the tires on? stock?
Yes, the stockers.
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Old 06-01-2004, 06:32 PM   #8
Coati
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Quote:
Originally posted by Recce01
MarkA,
Call me, I'll get you set up with a wheel tire package just used for rally-X (used rally tires), Whatever you do, do not run low pressure at rally-X in cali. I reccomend abouty 40psi if you dont want to lose the bead, no guarentees, just less likely. You really need rally tires to attack a venue like tombstone!

Scott
gravel crew
760-403-0453
Scott speaks the truth! Just know that rally tires (and snow tires) will bump you into a different class than the street tires. But that's neither a good nor bad thing, just different.


FWIW, I have been using KDWS, and have been happy with them.
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Old 06-02-2004, 06:10 PM   #9
hoche
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I also use KDWS's.
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Old 06-02-2004, 11:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by jprowland
I suggest buying a second set of tires and rims just for rally-x. If you only want a single set for both street and rally-x, then pick the tires you want based on your street driving preferences, and lower the pressure to mid-20s for rally-x (and be prepared when you knock a tire off the rim.) Stay with all-seasons, summer tires at a rally-x are like driving on glass. And trust me, you won't be happy with snow tires as your street tire in So Cal...

--
JP Rowland jeremyrowland -at- mac.com
Co-Driver, Wazoo Racing Subaru WRX, PGT
http://homepage.mac.com/jeremyrowland
I too would agree on getting a second set, I am not a hard core Rally-X'er as you know but I plan on getting some cheap Rotas (hopefully the Grids will be available soon) and using those for daily use. This way, I can have my wheel of choice for daily driving, auto-xing or anything else on the Rotas and then have my stock wheels laying around ready for dirt action. If I want to go big and buy some expensive dirt tires I won't have to worry about wearing them out. Just my suggestion.

I also would disagree wtih 20psi, keep it at 40psi.
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Old 06-03-2004, 12:55 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by jprowland
lower the pressure to mid-20s for rally-x
No, not even for ice racing. I have never popped a bead but came close at the last one despite running 40 psi. I won four championships on KDWS tires and tires are open out here so I was running against guys on Rally tires. The best part about KDWS is they have a very hard sidewall which keeps the tire in shape even when you are going sideways. Even set FTD at the local track day so they work great on pavement too. I am currently running DM2's which have a better turn in on really soft surfaces but have much more sidewall flex even at high psi. Tire was flat the next day when dirt got under the bead. Never had that problem with KDWS.
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Old 06-03-2004, 02:04 PM   #12
SMiLEY
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Just to throw my two cents in, I also think the KDWS is the better choice. In my experience a stickier tire won't hurt you, especially if the surface is dry and hard.

I also recommend running around 40 psi, running 20 is just begging for trouble.
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Old 06-03-2004, 06:37 PM   #13
rob
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Quote:
Originally posted by rupertberr
No, not even for ice racing. I have never popped a bead but came close at the last one despite running 40 psi.
It depends on the surface and the tire. I run 24psi for all my events. No problem with loosing a tire in the 15 or so races. It seems to work for me; last season overall 1st in PGT, so far this season 2 for 2 1st place finshes.
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Old 06-04-2004, 04:10 AM   #14
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I've seen 2 cars rolled in the last 2 years at OR RallyXs. Both were full rally car setups, running rally tires. Don't know what the pressures were, but they obviously were too low

Both incidents occurred when the car was sliding sideways in a very rutted tight corner; peeled the outside front off the bead...

There have been several other people who've peeled tires off the bead also, but not with drastic results. Afaik none of these were running above mid 20's pressures (but not first hand info about that).
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Old 06-04-2004, 10:13 AM   #15
rupertberr
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I've done about 40 RallyCrosses and seen at least 80 cars pop beads. Worst day was when it snowed in the morning and dried off in the afternoon, 13 cars popped their tires, several did it twice. All because of too low tire pressures. I am the series manager this year and we tell all rookies on street tires to come with at least 40 psi.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:28 AM   #16
wrrrx
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Quote:
Originally posted by rupertberr
I've done about 40 RallyCrosses and seen at least 80 cars pop beads.
Good God! You guys average two popped beads per event?!?
Man, that seems high... I've only done like 15 events or something, and seen mebbe... 6 popped beads? 8? I dunno...(And the two rollovers 'Rash mentioned.. )
I used to always run low pressures, but now I run snows and hafta run higher psi because of the soft sidewalls...

Russ R
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Old 06-10-2004, 03:20 AM   #17
greg donovan
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we have 2 or three an event here too. one guy did it 3 time in one day and he has done it every time he goes out. no matter what the car is. we must just push harder in the midwest

i wouldnt run less than 35-38 on rally tires in my car unless it was really slimey. then i still wouldnt go under 28 on street tires since the rally tires suck in the slime.
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Old 06-10-2004, 09:51 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by greg donovan
we have 2 or three an event here too. one guy did it 3 time in one day and he has done it every time he goes out. no matter what the car is. we must just push harder in the midwest
Whaaat? Man- that dude needs to use wheel screws, like the drag racers do!!

Quote:

i wouldnt run less than 35-38 on rally tires in my car unless it was really slimey. then i still wouldnt go under 28 on street tires since the rally tires suck in the slime.
:Eh? Wouldn't... rally tires be the BEST tire in the "slime"??
Mebbe it's compound-dependent?
The more I learn, the less I know!!!

Russ R
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:12 AM   #19
greg donovan
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you are exactly right. it is compound and tread pattern dependant. there are "mud" rally tires and there are gravel tires. most are gravel tires around here and it doesnt pay to buy new rally tires just for rallyx so i buy used gravel tires. one thing to remember is rally tires suck at temps below 35. the rubber turns rock hard.


for rallyx the best all around rally tire is the kuhmo r700 in the soft compound. it will work good on gravel and grass and ok in sand and mud.
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:11 PM   #20
randy zimmer
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Choosing the right tire for a condition is not done by looking at pictures.
When the factorys ran SCCA Pro, they'd take everything they had to the practice stage and I saw the crews come back to town to mount up some more!
I haven't often had the stuff to try but on one test that Bottoms and I did, we took five sets we thought'd work and had a swing of 6 sec/mile!
WRC guys routinely say they made a bad choice even though they have last year's notes, test miles and the tire reps helping decide.
So, picking a tire from a picture for someone else's sandbox is just a guess.
rz
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Old 06-11-2004, 06:53 PM   #21
ElGranBanò
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Aw heck, 'just' splurge on a set 15in wheels and pop some used rally tires on them! I got mine from the good people at Four Star Motorsport at a very good price, check them out:
http://www.fourstarmotorsports.com/C...y_Tires_26.htm
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Old 06-11-2004, 07:46 PM   #22
randy zimmer
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I have plenty of used Michelin for $20 each, but you have to pick them up in Buffalo as they aren't worth shipping.
rz
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Old 06-12-2004, 06:13 PM   #23
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Randy, next time you make it out to BeaveRun I'll take some of those Michelins off of you.
Jon
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