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Old 06-01-2004, 04:11 PM   #1
Hitokiri
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Default Nology Hotwires + Turbo?

My friend has a set of Nology Hotwires on his RS. I am a little concerned about their effect on the engine when it becomes turbo in the near future.

check out http://www.nology.com/ if you are unfamiliar with their concepts.

They seem like a very cool idea. A stronger spark to promote a better faster burn resulting in better efficiency of the engine. They even have dyno data from a 350 V8 showing peak hp increases of up to 7 HP at redline.

Pretty impressive.

The problem is, will this faster burn / more powerful combustion process make a difference in the onset of knock in a turbo engine? Will it help or hurt the situation. I suppose having a stronger burn would be better always, and a stronger spark is insuring that a stoic amount of fuel is being burned I suppose. Nology advertises that their wires complete the burn much faster than that of conventional wires. In their v8 test. Peak cylinder pressures were reached 1.2 degrees "before" that of the same engine NA. Does this mean that timing will have to be removed in order to keep knock supression constant? The article also shows a -35 degree change in EGT in the v8.

is anyone running these in their turbo motor?

please comment as I am considering them for myself + my turbo setup.

thanks,

Todd
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Old 06-01-2004, 04:34 PM   #2
maxiav
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out of 350 HP ... it increased 7 HP??.... Thats only 2%....
So with 165HP you are gonna go to 168HP...
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Old 06-01-2004, 04:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally posted by maxiav
out of 350 HP ... it increased 7 HP??.... Thats only 2%....
So with 165HP you are gonna go to 168HP...
I think he meant a 350 small block, not 350hp
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Old 06-01-2004, 06:24 PM   #4
Hitokiri
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yeah it was a 350 small block

I am not so concerned with the magnitude of the horsepower increase. I am more concered with the effect the increased burn fate on my ignition timing and knock supression under boost.
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Old 06-01-2004, 07:16 PM   #5
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no matter what, you want a strong spark. Knock has to be tuned out, not "removed with a weak spark"
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Old 06-01-2004, 10:02 PM   #6
Unsung Boxer
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correct me if im wrong, but doenst a lower resistance wire cause the Spark to happen sooner, thus almost acting like a timing advance?

There has been many study's showing that in more cars the factory spark plug wires make the most power. at any rate, i think they are very unnecessary, money better spent somewhere else.

-Jake
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Old 06-01-2004, 10:41 PM   #7
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Not sure, but I had to change the wires anyways because of the tec.
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Old 06-02-2004, 11:14 AM   #8
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Unsung Boxer - I agree that these wires will essencially act like timing advance due to their extremely fast and strong spark. These wires actually have large capacitors in them which biuld up charge to amplify the spark. This timing advance efect is one of my worries with these wires on a turbo car. My friend who has them on his RS claims he noticed the car ran much nicer with the new wires in. He also claims a butt dyno increase but who knows how accurate that is.

seems like a good idea. If I have $150 to blow maybe i'll pick them up. I would be happy knowing that i have a strong spark despite the huge power drain on my electrical system from all the electronics I have in the car.

Todd
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Old 06-02-2004, 08:26 PM   #9
mr. m
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unsung Boxer

There has been many study's showing that in more cars the factory spark plug wires make the most power.
more than what. more cars than not or more than in past years?
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Old 06-03-2004, 09:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unsung Boxer
correct me if im wrong, but doenst a lower resistance wire cause the Spark to happen sooner, thus almost acting like a timing advance?
Correct me if I'm wrong... but isn't the speed of light pretty much the same regardless of the material used unless you get really huge distances/exotic materials.

*warning, kinda long, but informative about ignition systems*

If you were to look at a graph of what's going on in your ignition system when the car is running you'd understand how the wires work. The ignition system takes a TREMENDOUS amount of voltage to get the electrons to initially jump the gap (upwards of 35,000 volts on newer DIS cars). Once the plug gap has been ionized and the electrons are flowing, the voltage required to keep the spark flowing is only 2,000 -> 3,000 volts. The continued arc in the spark plug is commonly known as spark duration. However, the ignition coil burned up the majority of it's energy firing that initial massive burst across the plug gaps and doesn't have the energy left to keep the duration going for more than 2-3 miliseconds.

The nology wires have a coil in them that helps the standard ignition coil ionize that plug gap. This leaves much more energy in the system for the spark duration. The longer duration promotes a more COMPLETE (not faster) burn in the cylinder which is where the extra power comes from especially at higher engine speeds where not all of the fuel/air mix may be exposed to the spark. As an added bonus, this also leads to better fuel economy.

As for the comparison between OEM wires and aftermarket ones of a similar design, the reason the OEM wires work so well is due to their high resistance. Since the ignition coil will dump as much voltage as it can through the plug wires, the higher resistance wires will lead to a longer spark duration because the coil wasn't able to give the highest initial firing voltage as it could (ignition coils are capable of producing over 80,000 volts if there is no resistance in the system). Lower resistance aftermarket wires will give you a larger initial firing but your duration will be shorter. This is sometimes needed in high compression/high boost engines because once you start generating ludicrously high cylinder pressures the 35,000 volt initial kick might not be enough to ionize that gap and your plug won't fire, so it's a tradeoff between actually being able to ionize the gap, or having a long duration.

Personally I have no experience with the nology wires, however the principal behind them is sound, especially on turbocharged motors that see high cylinder pressures. They allow both a high initial voltage and a long duration without the need for something like an MSD ignition system. This is especially advantageous thing to our suby motors because the head/cam design Fuji settled on generates alot of turbulence within the combustion chamber (this is good, exposes as much fuel and air to the flame front as possible). However once the flow velocities and pressures in the system start to get alot higher than the heads were designed for, you can actually blow out the spark in the gap in a spark plug just like a candle in high winds.

Hope some of you are still reading this... hope it helps.
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Old 06-04-2004, 07:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by no-coast-punk

The nology wires have a coil in them that helps the standard ignition coil ionize that plug gap. This leaves much more energy in the system for the spark duration. The longer duration promotes a more COMPLETE (not faster) burn in the cylinder which is where the extra power comes from especially at higher engine speeds where not all of the fuel/air mix may be exposed to the spark. As an added bonus, this also leads to better fuel economy.
That's a pretty interesting explanation.

The only thing I'd disagree with you on is the Nology HotWires comparison. A capacitor, no matter what circuit it is added to, will delay a circuit's response. The delay is less for high frequency signals such as spark ignitions, but it is still a delay. The HotWires look like small and simple but novel cylindrical capacitors with a silicone core (dielectric), with the outer cylinder tied to ground through the ground strap. It looks like the capacitor delays the spark discharge, but in doing so, allows the voltage to build up higher, and results in a shorter but more intense spark discharge. The brighter flash in the photos can only mean there was a higher voltage, but not necessarily longer duration. Since the coilpack wasn't changed, I'd bet that the spark duration was shortened in exchange for the higher breakover voltage.

It sounds like an alternative way to increase spark intensity on an OEM coil without going to a TEC-II style coilpack. The claimed horsepower gains are probably from eliminating misfires that used to occur with the OEM coilpack and wires. But if you already have a TEC-II coil, you probably won't need the Nology HotWires.

-WaC
Wayne
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Old 06-04-2004, 07:55 AM   #12
Hitokiri
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Thanks so much for commenting everyone! I would love to see no-coasts relpy to your post wayne and I am not up to speed with you guys on ingition systems.

What is special about the Tech2 coil? Higher voltage? Longer duration? Anyone have a comparison to OEM?

Todd
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