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Old 06-10-2004, 11:40 AM   #1
Golfa
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Default APS CAI on '04 STi: good or bad?

I am about to buy an APS Cold-Air Intake for my STi and wanted to hear some people's opinions about this product. Is cold air a smart thing to do? I have heard it may make the car run too rich or lean (not sure which). I have also heard to just get a regular short-ram. I don't know a whole lot about intakes on wrx's, but I have heard some good things about this APS one. The only other mod I (will) have is TXS turboback exhaust.

any thoughts/comments/opinions would be welcomed. Thanks in advance.

-Eric
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:06 PM   #2
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Bad idea

Intake FAQ
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:19 PM   #3
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i believe renick motorsports, mastrowrx, and speedsport teknik (sp?) all recommend the aps cai.

i know easystreet highly recommends the injen cai, and is willing to back it up 100% w/ dyno results.

fwiw, the new k&n rai and the apexi are both available with heat shielding elements to keep the intake from sucking in hot air from under the hood.

on the other hand, there are just as many, if not more, tuners who will say the temps aren't as important and also have results to back it up.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unabomber
Bad idea

Intake FAQ
wow, thanks for the link, that's awesome. but for which reason that you listed is this APS CAI a bad idea?

thanks again!
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:23 PM   #5
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i read this on APS' website:

NOTICE: APS originally intended the High Flow Cold Air Intake system to be used in conjunction with correctly tuned engine management. As of June 2003 production, this product has been redesigned to work in harmony with the stock engine management. These updated units are distinguished with the numerals "65" cast into the inside diameter of the engine hose end.

so am I OK if it says 65 on the one i'm buying?
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Old 06-10-2004, 01:03 PM   #6
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I have a possibly silly question along these lines. If a CAI (or any other mod) is "redesigned to work in harmony with the stock engine management", can it really boost performance that much? It seems like they would need to keep the airflow capacity inline with the stock intake. I suppose the air could be cooler, but not necesarily more in volume. So the benefit would just be from colder air and not from making it easier for the system to "breath"?

Feel free to respond with "n00b", "newb", etc.
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Old 06-10-2004, 01:10 PM   #7
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^^^ i wonder the same thing.
i just redid my silencer/snorkus delete mod, drop in filter, and pvc elbow into the fender well until i decide on em anyways
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Old 06-10-2004, 01:18 PM   #8
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i know from experience,
these DO NOT function correctly with stock engine management...
they work perfectly fine if you are able to tune for them.....
that's the key issue...

if you dont believe me, by all means. buy one, slap it on....
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Old 06-10-2004, 02:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by DISCOPOPE
i know from experience,
these DO NOT function correctly with stock engine management...
they work perfectly fine if you are able to tune for them.....
that's the key issue...

if you dont believe me, by all means. buy one, slap it on....


The APS 65mm Cold Air Intake works flawlessly with the 04 STI.

My roommate has one on his 04STI and I have one for my 05 STI (I also had one on my 02 WRX) and in each case, they work fine. Deltadash logging proves that nothing is wrong and the car drives perfectly with no odd hesitation, it's not running lean/rich or any other strange behavior associated with CAIs.

I cannot speak for other brands of CAIs, but in EVERY case I've seen with the 65mm APS CAI, it works perfectly.

edit - oh yeah, both our cars have turboback exhausts and stock engine management.

Last edited by nhluhr; 06-10-2004 at 02:51 PM.
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Old 06-10-2004, 03:03 PM   #10
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I have an APS CAI on my STI and I have no problems what so ever. Don't expect any huge gains from it, maybe a few hp but as far as hurting the car it won't. I had an Injen CAI on my 02 WRX and I also had no problems with it. Like I said for $250 and about 3 hp your talking about 80 dollars per hp. If you don't already have a down pipe or a boost controller I would buy one of those first, more bang per buck.
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Old 06-10-2004, 03:36 PM   #11
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I would like to see someone, anyone post their results of this intake when using the proper measuring tool:

a wideband 02 sensor using the correct placement as well.

Posts such as "works great", "no problems", "Delta Dash says", really mean nothing considering the proof in the pudding would be from a correctly positioned wideband 02 unit. The stock 02 sensor stinks for accuracy and it's physical placement in the exhaust is less than ideal. I am NOT pointing fingers, only searching for the truth.
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Old 06-10-2004, 03:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unabomber
Bad idea

Intake FAQ
????

that's only apply to WRX

not STI?
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Old 06-10-2004, 04:00 PM   #13
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STi intake = WRX intake
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Old 06-10-2004, 04:07 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unabomber
I would like to see someone, anyone post their results of this intake when using the proper measuring tool:

a wideband 02 sensor using the correct placement as well.

Posts such as "works great", "no problems", "Delta Dash says", really mean nothing considering the proof in the pudding would be from a correctly positioned wideband 02 unit. The stock 02 sensor stinks for accuracy and it's physical placement in the exhaust is less than ideal. I am NOT pointing fingers, only searching for the truth.
It has already been tested, the new "65" works great.
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Old 06-10-2004, 06:15 PM   #15
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i think the anti-intake stigma is just too strong for anybody to believe that the APS 65 might actually work well. It does.
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Old 06-10-2004, 07:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by nhluhr
i think the anti-intake stigma is just too strong for anybody to believe that the APS 65 might actually work well. It does.
I would love to believe there is a good intake out there, BUT no one has shown one that has a good A/F ratio + gains at the same time. Still waiting for proof........
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Old 06-10-2004, 07:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally posted by nhluhr
i think the anti-intake stigma is just too strong for anybody to believe that the APS 65 might actually work well. It does.
i agree fully with you.

I had the 70mm aps intake on my wrx, with an ecutek the maf was scaled for the larger diameter. but since people were slapping them on cars with stock engine management, they started offering one that would work with it (ie the 65mm). I still think there will be some improvement, but not quite what you'll get with the 70mm.

either way, they're on national back order. I don't think anyone has them in stock.

Quote:
Originally posted by Unabomber
I would love to believe there is a good intake out there, BUT no one has shown one that has a good A/F ratio + gains at the same time. Still waiting for proof........
I have dd logs, but not a wideband. If you still don't believe, talk to Tuan at GRD. There is also information on the ecutek website showing how the maf can be scaled.
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Old 06-10-2004, 08:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by BOFslime
I have dd logs, but not a wideband. If you still don't believe, talk to Tuan at GRD. There is also information on the ecutek website showing how the maf can be scaled.
Tuning an intake isn't the debate, as any intake can be tuned. The debate is wether the APS (or any brand for that matter) intake can be bolted on and be used safely without tuning. Delta Dash is great tool, however I wouldn't trust it without a wideband O2 that has been correctly positioned to read accurately.

Tuned intakes are fine. Untuned intakes have yet to show proof that they are safe AND produce power.
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Old 06-10-2004, 08:10 PM   #19
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so the "65" one is the one to get for an STi? Because the sale I have pending is on a 70mm one. Should I pass and get a 65?

thanks for input guys!

-Eric
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Old 06-10-2004, 08:45 PM   #20
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no engine management= no 70mm intake
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Old 06-10-2004, 08:51 PM   #21
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wut about AEM's and injet's one?
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Old 06-10-2004, 09:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Golfa
so the "65" one is the one to get for an STi? Because the sale I have pending is on a 70mm one. Should I pass and get a 65?

thanks for input guys!

-Eric
DO NOT buy a 70 unless you have full capability to tune for it. This means Wideband O2, user-tunable EM, lots of time, etc.
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Old 06-10-2004, 09:36 PM   #23
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Nathan, he's just egging you into doing some testing and posting numbers
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:09 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unabomber
Untuned intakes have yet to show proof that they are safe AND produce power.
i would also believe, on the flip side of this argument, that there is no proof to show that an untuned intake does not produce safe power? you can't have one without the other, no?

from what i have understood (with this car) the MAF housing and its size are the key ingredients. because the MAF sensor is made to work with X sized hosing, it doesn't matter (within reason) if you are pushing more air through it, because the ECU can compensate because it is getting the correct reading. this is my understanding only.

i have had 2 perrin short rams and have never seen an issue; one on my wrx and one with my sti. of course (as you noted), this means NOTHING without the correct measuring tools but i have heard nothing but positive results from the perrin SR. did we branch off with this discussion to include all intakes or am i just trying to justify my purchase??


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Old 06-10-2004, 11:16 PM   #25
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I just got the APS CAI for my sti. it is actually 2mm smaller than the oem air box. this equates to a big difference in area. my tuner rekons that this will make the car run richer as ur maxing out the MAP sensor causing it to add more fuel

Does this sound rite?
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