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Old 01-25-2001, 12:22 AM   #1
Imprezard
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Post WRX Brakes

There has been many many posts about the brakes on the US spec WRX. Most are complaining about the 2 pots and smaller disk. I know that the UK/AUS spec has something better (same brake as on P1), but it seems that the US brake is the same as the Japanese spec WRX. 2pot, 15"disk.
<IMG SRC="http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/wrx/img/wrx_sus_brak_photo3.jpg" border=0><IMG SRC="http://www.subaru.co.jp/impreza/wrx/img/wrx_sus_brak_photo3inf.gif" border=0>
If the brake is good enough for the Japanese spec 247HP, I think it's also good for our 227HP.

The picture above shows the front brake (taken from Subaru.co.jp), the Japanese translation is: Front. Ventilated Disk Brake (15 inch 2 pot).

[This message has been edited by Imprezard (edited January 25, 2001).]
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Old 01-25-2001, 02:19 AM   #2
AKGC8
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Either that brake is larger, or you got something wrong in your translation. The US rotor is like 10 or 11.something in. I agree though, the stock brakes should do alright.
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Old 01-25-2001, 06:19 AM   #3
JTaylor
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Question

Has anyone heard what the braking performance is for the WRX (60-0, 70-0)?

Thanks,

Jeff
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Old 01-25-2001, 09:04 AM   #4
wrxsvt
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Front rotors in the US are 11.4". Not sure about the translation, but I don't think even a Viper uses 15" brake rotors. That would likely require a minimum of an 18" wheel to clear.

Judging from my past automotive experience, the stock WRX brakes should be more than adequate for autocross and very aggressive road driving. And if you don't go too crazy, I'd bet they will even hold up fine for 'Driver Education' racetrack events (where you aren't racing the other cars on the track, just running laps as fast as you are comfortable with).

What experience am I basing this assumption on you may ask? My current car is a Ford Contour SVT. It weighs about 3100 lbs, or within 100 lbs of the WRX. It is equipped with 10.94" front rotors and single piston calipers, while the rear brakes are similar to the WRX (slightly smaller I think). My SVT has autocrossed (not really that hard on brakes actually), done a Driver Education event at Heartland Park Topeka’s racetrack, been up and down Pikes Peak, and done some very high speed canyon carving. Of all those things, only during the racetrack lapping did my brakes ever fade very much. And that involved slowing from speeds as high as 120mph down to 40mph as quickly as possible. They never went away, they just got a bit soft after several laps.

Of course, we are talking two different vehicles here, so (like everything about the WRX!) this is just speculation. But I think it is safe to say that the WRX brakes will at least be decent, and not at all ‘dangerously dumbed down’ as some people have suggested.

Phil
Future ’02 WRX wagon owner
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Old 01-25-2001, 09:07 AM   #5
olaf
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11.4" brakes are huge. change the pads to carbon for track use and you are in bizness. okay, they may not be 4 pot, but they will be pretty damn good.
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Old 01-25-2001, 01:44 PM   #6
Imprezard
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Well, not doubt in the bracket it says 15 inch 2 pots. If it's not the disk, what else can it be?
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Old 01-25-2001, 01:49 PM   #7
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I was under the impression that Subaru uses the 15" measurement to denote the size of the wheel that will fit over the brakes. Kinda strange I thought.
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Old 01-25-2001, 01:56 PM   #8
Imprezard
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Smile

Anyway, my point is that some of the people here should cry less about the brake we are getting. Although it might not be as good (looking?) as the UK/AUS ones, I kind of believe that it is the same as the Japanese spec, and which should be good enough.
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Old 01-25-2001, 02:15 PM   #9
rsquire
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Quote:
I'd bet they will even hold up fine for 'Driver Education' racetrack events (where you aren't racing the other cars on the track, just running laps as fast as you are comfortable with).
The stock brakes will most definitely not handle a full track lapping day, say about 6 x 20 mins sessions in the day.

The 4 pot brakes will handle these days a little better but they will still start to "go away" on you unless you change the pads for something like the Ferodo DS2000 or Pagid Blues. I do not recommend the Pagid Blue pads though. Don't misunderstand me they are a great pad but they will "eat" the stock rotors.

I have the Subaru 4 pot brakes on my RS with Mintex 1155 pads and they are great for road use and the odd track day.

If you start doing track days say once a month or so then it is worth upgrading the brakes. On the 22B I have now fitted AP 330mm rotors with 4 pot calipers and they are truly great.

Both cars also have stainless brake lines.

OBTW I don't think the P1 uses the Subaru 4 pot brakes. I believe they use an Alcon kit branded as Prodrive.

Richard
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Old 01-25-2001, 03:41 PM   #10
Mel 22B
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Post

'AP 330mm rotors with 4 pot calipers '
mmmmmmmmmm yummy.

I still think these are the answer:
<IMG SRC="http://www.scoobysport.co.uk/images/brk_bremboap.jpg" border=0>
305mm

-Mel
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Old 01-25-2001, 05:01 PM   #11
wrxsvt
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In regard to stock WRX brakes holding up on the track, Richard, it sounds like you have a great deal of experience with this. I do not doubt that the stockers will fade on the track, but it surprises me that you think they won't survive at all.

I guess maybe you can't compare Subaru brakes to those on a Ford, but it just seems like if the SVT brakes held up okay then a car of similar weight, marginally greater speed, and larger brakes should fare at least as well. Just to avoid this argument, I am a Bondurant educated driver and an avid autocrosser (85 MR2 does that duty), so I wasn't taking it easy on the SVT by any means.

I do agree with you that if you are doing that sort of thing monthly or more then you definitely should upgrade the brakes and particularly the brake fluid. But if it's just a once or twice a year thing. . .

Anyway, this is all moot until the car is out and people take them out on the track to see. And as I said before in a more subtle way, there is no way that's a 15" rotor on the JDM WRX. Perhaps the caption is printed wrong? Seriously though, the Alcon package recommended by Lingenfelter for his 650hp twin turbo C5 Corvette uses 13.5" rotors. Just making the point.

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Old 01-26-2001, 12:51 AM   #12
AlphaDog
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The only brake mods I will be doing are stainless lines and red calipers.

-Dog
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Old 01-26-2001, 01:17 PM   #13
Imprezard
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Richard, P1 uses the same brake as the new UK WRX. (Subaru Caliper, same ones as the old STi's, designed to fit 16" wheel)
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Old 01-26-2001, 02:20 PM   #14
rsquire
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Smile

Imprezard.. You right but a lot of owners have upgraded to the Prodrive/Alcon kit.. I believe it's an option in the WR pack for the P1.

wrxsvt. I wouldn't say a have a huge amount of experience but I have done track days at

Knockhill
Donnington
Silverstone
Anglesey
Brand Hatch

and a drivers course and lapping at Seattle International raceway.

The question of whether you'll kill the brakes on track days depends very much on the track and how fast you are going.

The stock rotors on my 22B developed fine cracks in the disk. This is the 4 pot setup and they have faded on me, not pedal flat to the floor, but enough to concern me.

You really can not compare AutoX to a lapping day. In autox you are only braking from relatively low speeds, the track time is usually under 2 mins with long cooling off time between runs. So the stock brakes even the 2 pot ones should be perfectly adequate for that.

On the track days in the UK you are usually out on track for a 20 minute session each hour with usually 6 sessions in the day.

Added to this you are braking from much higher speeds. For example, 145mph on Hangar Straight, 130ish on the back straight at Donnington and then braking HARD for a 90 right chicane and doing that lap after lap much different load.

Richard
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Old 01-26-2001, 04:30 PM   #15
Imprezard
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Although I believe the 2 pot brake we are getting is good enough, I sure hope we'll have the option for an upgrade.
You can never stop too quick (except in a collision )
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Old 01-27-2001, 09:03 AM   #16
rsr911
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After having run track events for 2 years in my 86 911 I can tell you even as good as Porsche brakes are factory brakes will fade.

You run faster longer and they just can not handle the heat. I switched to ATE Blue brake fluid and that helped!! I ran Perf. Friction
Carbon Metallic pads 93 compound they lasted 4 full events plus street before changing.

The best thing I did was have my rotors treated by Diversified Cryogenics in Minn.
1-888-323-8456
My rotors show no signs of wear at all!!!

I will be running my new WRX in auto cross and track events. Believe me all the motor in
the world you only get to use once if you can not STOP!!
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Old 01-27-2001, 10:00 AM   #17
ANZAC_1915
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The tough choice is 4 pot 298mm brakes or the 330mm Alcons.....?

I assume 15" Racelines won't fit over the Alcons.

Glenn
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Old 01-27-2001, 10:19 AM   #18
rsr911
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I would love to have the 330 mm Alcons or settle (ha ha) for the smaller ;-) Brembos,
however since I will be running winter and summer wheels and tires I believe only the factory 298 mm kit will fit the factory 16"
wheel which I ordered with my WRX.
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Old 01-27-2001, 10:36 AM   #19
Hashiriya
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But will the Prodrive/Alcon set fit the WRX??
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Old 01-27-2001, 11:10 AM   #20
ANZAC_1915
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Yes, Prodrive was saying Alcon kit is available now through UK dealers. It looks like brakes are identical to the old model, thankfully.

Glenn
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Old 01-27-2001, 11:18 AM   #21
Hashiriya
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Question

Glenn, or anyone out there, do you know of any vendors in the US that'll be importing a bunch of Prodrive goodies??
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Old 01-27-2001, 11:35 AM   #22
kelley nelson
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Anybody know if the Brembo calipers that come on the STi cars are the same as those you get in the aftermarket kits? They look different to me.

Heard great things about the alcons too...

I notice a lot of people saying that the brake feeling is better in the new car. I am wondering what to attribute this to since the calipers and rotors are the same.. Master cylinder, plumbing, pedal setup I suppose...


BTW: Brembo has some great RealMedia movies on their site:
<a href="http://www.brembo.com/video.htm">http://www.brembo.com/video.htm</a>
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Old 01-28-2001, 12:21 AM   #23
ANZAC_1915
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Mike Shields (spdusa.com) is the only Prodrive dealer I know of, but I heard that they may appoint others.

Glenn

[This message has been edited by Glenn Wallace (edited January 27, 2001).]
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Old 02-19-2001, 10:01 AM   #24
Damian
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Do we have 60-0 stopping distance yet?
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Old 02-19-2001, 10:22 AM   #25
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Yes, has anyone had any experience with the Brembo's that come standard on the STi?
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