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Old 06-15-2004, 11:31 AM   #1
TedMeyer
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Default Lazer Tagged

Just a word to the wise... After a bunch of NE road trips to NH and VT from CT over the past several months, I've noticed a dramatic uptick in laser speed traps. On I93 in NH on Friday I saw two Trooper cars and about 8 troopers in what looked like a training exercise for new coppers. My Valentine was lighting up for laser use, and they seemed to be pointing at anything that moved.

And coming home from NHIS on Sunday I saw three separate laser traps on I95 between New Haven and Stamford. Unfortunately I got dinged when I went to pass a car that was swerving -- just as my front end edged past the other car, my V1 lit up, followed soon by me seeing the trooper aiming right at me. He totally lit up his tires pulling out to get me -- I could see the smoke billowing -- as if I was gonna make a run for it towing a trailer!

Sadly, laser is just too quick to slow down. The only way you'll get a warning is if someone ahead of you gets nuked and your detector picks up the reflected beams. I was actually really happy w/ the Valentine -- even after I ripped it off the window and stuffed it under the seat, it was still picking up the laser!

Anybody know a good speeding attny in CT?

T
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Old 06-15-2004, 11:36 AM   #2
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And that is the reason I just bought a laser jammer. Only thing that will even give you a chance.
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Old 06-15-2004, 11:46 AM   #3
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oh ****. this is the first instance i know of where NH is using laser.. for the longest time i was safe with my old skool radar detector since NH wasn't using lasers, but now i guess i'm SOL...
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Old 06-15-2004, 11:54 AM   #4
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Isn't it true, through, that the trooper needs more than one confirmed shot on you to post a speed against you? I thought I remembered reading somewhere that they needed at least 3 shots within a certain mph range in order to get you for a speed.

I know when I got hit in Jersey with Laser, the trooper showed me the 3 hits he got to prove I was going the speed I was and he had to post all three on the ticket...maybe it's a Jersey thing? Maybe he did it to try and show that I wasn't paying attention?

I do know that the 2nd & 3rd shots were significantly lower than the first, (my detector picked up the first and I jammed the brakes), so he had to reduce the speed he clocked me at on the ticket...

Anyone know anything about this more specifically?
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Old 06-15-2004, 12:04 PM   #5
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Laser is scary, I have all Ka and K around me, even the Troopers here in RI seem to use Ka most of the time. I have only seen my detector lightup laser once since I've had it, thank god.
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Old 06-15-2004, 12:08 PM   #6
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Coming through CT sat afternoon heading home from the NJ auto-x, I counted no less than 24 troopers on 95 on both sides of the highway, either doing radar or pulling people over.

Friday afternoon heading out, I saw at least a dozen on my side of the highway alone.

It's just not worth it to speed in that state. They're everywhere.

--kC
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Old 06-15-2004, 12:24 PM   #7
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Portable radio scanner =

I heard where all the cops were when going home from the garage day in Andover. It also lights up when you are near a cop.
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:02 PM   #8
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Why I set cruise to 72.
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:11 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by redobs
And that is the reason I just bought a laser jammer. Only thing that will even give you a chance.
I hope you didn't pay a lot for this. One of the car magazines (might have been Roundel) did a test and found no effect whatsoever.

jack
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:16 PM   #10
The Modaholic
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Really, Jason, you reading this? I'm surprised...I thought the "shifters" worked by confusing the lidar guns.

Can you tell me where to find that article Jack?
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:16 PM   #11
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<super troopers>

Farva: It doesn't matter cause I'm going to win ten million dollars.

Thorny: What are you going to do with ten million dollars, and you can't say buy the Cleveland Cavaliers.

Farva: I'd buy a ten million dollar car.

Thorny: That's fine I'd still pull you over.

Farva: Bull ****. You couldn't pull me over, and even if you did I'd activate my car's wings and I'd fly away.

Farva pulls off ticket from cup and pop spills all over him from the hole behind the ticket

Farva: Stupid burger punk!

</super troopers>
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:19 PM   #12
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From www.motorists.com- Have at it.



"SPECIAL NOTES IF YOU GET TAGGED WITH A LASER UNIT:
Have the officer acknowledge:

-the beam is invisible
-the "cross hairs" show just a dot on the finder, and not the actual beam
-the beam is hitting the indicated dot only if there has been a precise calibration, EXTERNAL to the unit, since any slight offset can change the reading or hit another vehicle.
-the device must be held absolutely steady. (COULD HE OR SHE HIT WITH A REAL GUN A LICENSE PLATE AT 1000 FEET?)
-a highway is a windy place, with buffeting wind by other cars and trucks
-the officer doesn't have a physics or optics degree
-everything the officer knows about the device is based on what he learned in a course with materials provided by the manufacturer
Basically, any testimony by the officer as to the validity of the device should be thrown out or prevented, as he is not qualified to give an expert opinion. What he/she thinks about the precision of LIDAR is valid only because the manufacturer told him/her so and is irrelevant in the court. LTI (the original LIDAR manufacturer) is a company that has teetered on the brink of bankruptcy for some time -- although they finally posted a first quarter profit. They just settled a shareholder lawsuit that accused the company of misleading shareholders and the public. They were in trouble with the SEC for violating securities laws (artificially inflating their stock price), their accounting firm quit, and their stock was halted. Mention that next time some cop touts any of LTI's claims about its laser gun. The company's reports are public and available to anyone who wants them -- you don't have to be a shareholder.

Furthermore, the legal requirements for laser ticket convictions are identical to radar: the officer MUST first visually estimate the speed of a vehicle without a radar or a laser, before confirming his or her estimate with that speed measuring device. Therefore, the officer's ability to accurately estimate a speed by looking at the close-up of a portion of the vehicle (typically the license plate or a headlight) thousands of feet away through a scope must be questioned in court.

Finally, under Massachusetts law in unposted areas the officer must observe you speed over a certain distance (see: Mass General Laws 90/17). This makes the equipment's often touted ability to obtain instantaneous readouts detrimental rather than advantageous to the officer
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:23 PM   #13
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According to LTI, the most popular US brand of Laser or "LIDAR" guns, the equipment must be tuned "in house" which means it cannot conform to MA law which states that speed measuring devices be routinely tested. In house testing is a conflict of interest and that method of self-checking would never pass in court.

The gun is to be aimed at a flat, reflective surface on the front of the car, the speed must be measured for 660ft, 1/8 of a mile according to MA law 90-17.

The gun is not to be used on inclines, in the rain or in the dark.

In many states LIDAR has not been given judicial notice. (look that one up)

I hope that helps. I got off another one last week.
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bimmubishi
Finally, under Massachusetts law in unposted areas the officer must observe you speed over a certain distance (see: Mass General Laws 90/17). This makes the equipment's often touted ability to obtain instantaneous readouts detrimental rather than advantageous to the officer
Quote:
Originally posted by Bimmubishi
The gun is to be aimed at a flat, reflective surface on the front of the car, the speed must be measured for 660ft, 1/8 of a mile according to MA law 90-17.
Quote:
MOTOR VEHICLES
Chapter 90: Section 17 Speed limits

Section 17. No person operating a motor vehicle on any way shall run it at a rate of speed greater than is reasonable and proper, having regard to traffic and the use of the way and the safety of the public. Unless a way is otherwise posted in accordance with the provisions of section eighteen, it shall be prima facie evidence of a rate of speed greater than is reasonable and proper as aforesaid (1) if a motor vehicle is operated on a divided highway outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding fifty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile, or (2) on any other way outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding forty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile, or (3) inside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding thirty miles per hour for a distance of one-eighth of a mile, or (4) within a school zone which may be established by a city or town as provided in section two of chapter eighty-five at a rate of speed exceeding twenty miles per hour. Operation of a motor vehicle at a speed in excess of fifteen miles per hour within one-tenth of a mile of a vehicle used in hawking or peddling merchandise and which displays flashing amber lights shall likewise be prima facie evidence of a rate of speed greater than is reasonable and proper. If a speed limit has been duly established upon any way, in accordance with the provisions of said section, operation of a motor vehicle at a rate of speed in excess of such limit shall be prima facie evidence that such speed is greater than is reasonable and proper; but, notwithstanding such establishment of a speed limit, every person operating a motor vehicle shall decrease the speed of the same when a special hazard exists with respect to pedestrians or other traffic, or by reason of weather or highway conditions. Any person in violation of this section, while operating a motor vehicle through the parameters of a marked construction zone or construction area, at a speed which exceeds the posted limit, or at a speed that is greater than is reasonable and proper, shall be subject to a fine of 2 times the amount currently in effect for the violation issued. Except on a limited access highway, no person shall operate a school bus at a rate of speed exceeding forty miles per hour, while actually engaged in carrying school children.
I see nothing in MGL 90-17 that mentions how long (distance and/or duration) an officer must measure the rate of speed to validate their use of Radar/Lidar.

--kC
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:34 PM   #15
redobs
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jack ffr1846
I hope you didn't pay a lot for this. One of the car magazines (might have been Roundel) did a test and found no effect whatsoever.

jack
It literally just came out so they couldn't have tested it.
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Old 06-15-2004, 01:42 PM   #16
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Chapter 90: Section 17 Speed limits

Section 17. No person operating a motor vehicle on any way shall run it at a rate of speed greater than is reasonable and proper, having regard to traffic and the use of the way and the safety of the public. Unless a way is otherwise posted in accordance with the provisions of section eighteen, it shall be prima facie evidence of a rate of speed greater than is reasonable and proper as aforesaid (1) if a motor vehicle is operated on a divided highway outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding fifty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile, or (2) on any other way outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding forty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile, or (3) inside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding thirty miles per hour for a distance of one-eighth of a mile, or (4) within a school zone which may be established by a city or town as provided in section two of chapter eighty-five at a rate of speed exceeding twenty miles per hour.
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Old 06-15-2004, 02:17 PM   #17
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OK.. .I see where it's considered speeding over a distance. Totally missed it the 100 times I've read this one section. (It's one of the MGLs that I have bookmarked)

(1) if a motor vehicle is operated on a divided highway outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding fifty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile, or

(2) on any other way outside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding forty miles per hour for a distance of a quarter of a mile, or

(3) inside a thickly settled or business district at a rate of speed exceeding thirty miles per hour for a distance of one-eighth of a mile, or

(4) within a school zone which may be established by a city or town as provided in section two of chapter eighty-five at a rate of speed exceeding twenty miles per hour.

Nice! So hiding around corners with police is illegal becuase they cannot observe you for the 1/4 mile (1) and (2) or 1/8 mile (3).

However... I don't thinks the original poster in CT. Got any links for them?

That's some good ammo for MA and I wish I knew about that in '99 when I got hit coming around a corner preparing to merge into a high speed lane of a 65 mph zone. (Where it was posted 45... got hit with doing 60)... there wasn't a 1/4 mile to measure.

--kC

Last edited by KC; 06-15-2004 at 02:23 PM.
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Old 06-15-2004, 02:49 PM   #18
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You can try reading the law back in court but it is all up to the magistrate. He/She can say yea right so you're weren't speeding? The officer doesn't know what they're doing? Thousands of radar and laser speed guns aren't used right?
I find for the state, pay the ticket, you may appeal it if you wish. You'll need a lawyer and more time off from work. In the mean time you won't be able to renew you license or registration through the DMV because you will have an outstanding unpaid ticket listed against you. I tried all of this even got a lawyer for the appeal, believe me its not worth it. Still had to pay it. It was only a $50 ticket but it would have screwed with my insurance. It ended up costing over $1500 with fees. The real kick in the butt? I was a cop at the time and got nailed doing 65 in a 55 by a state trooper he wouldn't give me "professional courtesy".
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Old 06-15-2004, 02:58 PM   #19
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So what if there was no flat reflective surface on the front of the car? Does the surface have to be perpendicular to the operator of the laser gun?

Pete: Have you tested it? Seen it work??
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:02 PM   #20
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I literally just paid for it today. I got in a GB with the M5 club. They've been waiting for this thing since Jan-Feb. I got the call on Sat. night that it was ready to be mailed. So, I should have it soon enough.

What it does is it jams the radar for 5 seconds and then automatically shuts itself off so the the cop can get a reading of your slower speed.
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Old 06-15-2004, 03:09 PM   #21
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this thread pisses me off...

I paid a $400+ lidar ticket...

I was tagged some 980ft away, and it was lightly snowing...

Why I didnt fight it will haunt me to my death I think.

~v6
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Old 06-15-2004, 05:26 PM   #22
Enigma76
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redobs, whats the name of the device?
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Old 06-15-2004, 05:34 PM   #23
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If you are really concerned, get one of the license plate covers that absorb infrared... aka Laser and they won't be able to lock on the plate.

For those with fog lamps, replace with driving lamps and put on an infrared filter so that only infrared comes through, it will be waaay more effective than a Laser Jammer.

Car and Driver played with this stuff a few years back, very interesting stuff.

- Ken
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:00 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by cdvma
Portable radio scanner =

I heard where all the cops were when going home from the garage day in Andover. It also lights up when you are near a cop.
I had 3 sherriffs blow by me tonight on the drive home. Nary a peep from the scanner. If they ain't talkin', it ain't lighting up.

(It does make for good entertainment though - tonight some kinds were shoplifting stuff from one Office Depot and returning it to another, last night some kids with firecrackers were leading the town cops on a merry chase around the waterfront for about 2 hours before the officers gave up...)
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Old 06-15-2004, 07:23 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Enigma76
redobs, whats the name of the device?

http://www.lidatek.com/

The one I'm getting is the LE-30, which isn't even on the webpage yet. We are getting the first batch.
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