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Old 06-18-2004, 11:21 PM   #1
subyguy2sfriend
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Default Just bought a 91' Loyale, Question about timing belts...

I just got a 1991 subaru loyale with 132k on the ticker for free for my bro. All it needed was a radiator and the timing belts. Today we replaced them, following the instructions of setting the marks on the tranny and aligning the dots on the cam sprockets. It started up fine but when you try to give it any gas it wont have ANY power. Is this anything like my 5.0L mustang where it will run, just like crap is the timing is 180* out? Thanks for the help guys!
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Old 06-18-2004, 11:28 PM   #2
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Oh one more thing, the oil pressure was WAY low at idle, like 10psi and there was some white smoke out of the tailpipe. Not alot but some.
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Old 06-19-2004, 02:06 AM   #3
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did you do the timing belts according to a chiltons manual? because they are wrong...

To set the belts:

Set the rear belt first (drivers side I think) with the flywheel on the middle of the 3 little timing marks (not the degree ones) then set the cam pully so the little hole in it is straight up.

Apply like 18 ft lbs or so to the belt and then tighten the tensioner bolts

Then turn the engine over 360 degrees and return the flywheel marks to the middle of the 3 marks again. the drivers side hole on the cam should now be pointing down... GOOD!

Set the passenger cam straight up and do the same belt torque procedure.

Make sure to turn the engine over afew times with the wrench to make sure the belts stay in time and didnt jump a tooth or anything
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Old 06-19-2004, 03:32 AM   #4
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yeah.. what mike said about the timing belts....

Additionally, you replaced the radiator.. had the car been overheated?.. overheating an EA82 can be a bad thing.. the white smoke from the tailpipe makes me suspicious of a headgasket/cracked head problem, which could also explain your lack of power.. after the timing belts are on correctly, I would suggest a compression check.
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Old 06-19-2004, 07:36 AM   #5
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ok so tonight after work .....

the holes in the pulleys do not line up with the slots in the plastic peices but instead the holes point top center?

The radiator is being replaced because it was badly rusted out. Other than that I'm not sure what i'm gonna find until i get the timing belts right. How hard is it to pull the heads to replace the head gaskets? can it be done on the car?
Thanks guys.
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Old 06-19-2004, 11:57 PM   #6
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I had him redo the belt. I think we almost got it. the oil pressure seems normal at idle. It has enough power to go up a hill now. But there is a mild ticking in the lower RPM and it will not go above 4k rpm at all. Think one of the cam gears might be 1 tooth off?
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Old 06-20-2004, 12:53 AM   #7
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"it will not go above 4k rpm" sounds like an ECU in limp-mode to me, kinda like a MAF sensor bit the dust or something.

When all is done with timing belts, when you line up the 3 marks on the flywheel, the passenger cam sprocket should have the little hole pointing straight up, and the driver cam sprocket, the hole should be straight down. I just finished my EA82 timing belt replacement on my XT 2 days ago, and the car is running beautifully.
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Old 06-20-2004, 01:32 AM   #8
teh Phil
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Hey guys, It's my car he's talking about, thanks for the awesome advice thusfar.

Quote:
Originally posted by subyluvr2212
"it will not go above 4k rpm" sounds like an ECU in limp-mode to me, kinda like a MAF sensor bit the dust or something.

Thank's we'll check that out.

Quote:
When all is done with timing belts, when you line up the 3 marks on the flywheel, the passenger cam sprocket should have the little hole pointing straight up, and the driver cam sprocket, the hole should be straight down. I just finished my EA82 timing belt replacement on my XT 2 days ago, and the car is running beautifully.
Yup, that's exactly how it looked. Turned it over a few more times, and it still seemed to be lined up, so maybe it is the MAF. That would contribute to the lack of power too, right? (Forgive me, I'm still learning...)
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Old 06-20-2004, 03:31 AM   #9
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... white smoke... lack of power


Do a compression check!!

Heads can be done with the motor in the car, but it is a bit easier with it out(obviously)
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Old 06-20-2004, 12:25 PM   #10
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This is probably a lame question, but did you check the timing after doing the belts?
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Old 06-20-2004, 01:35 PM   #11
teh Phil
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Quote:
Originally posted by Calebz
... white smoke... lack of power


Do a compression check!!

Heads can be done with the motor in the car, but it is a bit easier with it out(obviously)
Well, once I re-did the timing belts, there was no more white smoke. there was a slight lack of power, but at least it could get up our driveway now. Also, like my brother said, It won't go above 4k rpms.
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Old 06-20-2004, 09:13 PM   #12
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the fuel filter still says Subaru. Im hoping that it was replaced sometime during its 134k life. Do you guys think that it could be so clogged that it would be restricting the power, not letting it above 4k and causing it to ping?
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Old 06-20-2004, 10:19 PM   #13
teh Phil
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Okay, so to recap, so far we have:
  • Changed the timing belts
  • Changed the oil
  • Changed the oil filter
  • Replaced the radiator
  • Replaced the spark plugs
  • Checked the compression (see diagram below)
  • Replaced the fan belts


To do list:
  • Fuel Filter
  • Air Filter
  • Spark Plug Wires
  • Cap and Rotor
  • PCV Valve
  • Check the timing

Any other suggestions? Brand Recommendations?
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Old 06-21-2004, 01:03 AM   #14
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Hmmmm I am NOT a fan of those compression readings.

My 87 turbowagon was all 130's

My 88 GL with 266K was all 135's with only a 1-2 deviation.

I am thinking maybe the head with the lower compression on it could be having some issues...
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:03 PM   #15
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what about the cam being off one or more teeth? would that effect the compression at all?
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Old 06-22-2004, 12:36 AM   #16
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I personally guarantee that your fuel filter has been changed before. If you still had the original filter at 134k, your fuel pump would have been toast by now.

Timing being off would affect compression, but if it's off, you would have a valve that's not completely closed when it should and that cylinder shouldn't hold compression at all.

You might have the slight beginnings of a blown headgasket/cracked head, not enough to lose large amounts of compression or blow bubbles through the coolant. But it might get worse, so be ready.
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:38 PM   #17
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Update:
I changed the PCV valve, the spark plug wires, the air filter, and the fuel filter. No improvements there.

When I connected the timing light to the spark plug wires, cylinders 1,3, and 4 were pretty sporadic. cylinder 2 gave me a pretty steady pace. I'm thinking that the cap and rotor may be worn out, so I'm replacing that tomorrow. In the mean time, I'd like to check the timing, but I don't think my Haynes manual is giving me the right instructions. Anybody care to give me the run-down?
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:59 PM   #18
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If the cam is off by a tooth, would that affect timing?

How much would a WRX motor swap cost, and is it easy enough to do?
EDIT: Nevermind, 2500 for a motor....
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Old 06-23-2004, 12:04 AM   #19
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Depends on which cam. If it's the driver's side timing belt (the cam that drives the distributor) then yes the timing will be WAY off.
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Old 06-25-2004, 03:32 AM   #20
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http://www.warpthree.com/milesfox/su...timingbelt.htm

make sure you align the belts at the 3 marks, then do the ign at the ign maks. ther are almost 3 crank rotations for the procedure
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Old 06-25-2004, 08:56 PM   #21
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I think we got it. It idles great, we redid the timing too. I ended up realigning the cam pulleys to the marks on the plastic housing again and rotated the crank a few times to make sure they were still on. and they were.

I think the valvecovers are leaking really bad though, the bottom end of the engine is covered in oil.

Thanks everyone!
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Old 06-26-2004, 01:44 AM   #22
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Hmmm bottom of the engine covered in oil could be alot of things... valve covers, oil pan gasket, hell even whats wrong with the 86 I'm gonna buy, the oil passage o-rings in the head gaskets are shot. Hopefully its one of the first 2 as they are WAY easier to deal with.
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Old 06-27-2004, 12:50 AM   #23
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Is that 91 a SPFI engine? What kind of static time do you run on that? And what should I be running on my carbed 87 EA82? I just set it by feel. It seems to run pretty good at 14 deg btdc static. Is this a reasonable number? My emissions tag is painted over..
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Old 06-27-2004, 03:07 AM   #24
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SPFI is 20btdc

Carb is like 8-10 ... Don't remember exactly.. Bet mike knows though..


<---- No carbd cars.. My FSMs only cover FI as well...
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Old 06-27-2004, 03:12 AM   #25
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actually... all I know is SPFI is 20 also...

no clue what my carb is... I know its a little more advanced than normal though
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