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Old 06-21-2004, 12:56 AM   #1
subachad
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Default Emanage Rotary Settings

Hi All,

There are all sorts of rotary settings people are using for thier RS's, but what about an older ECU???

For those who might not know the car is (currently) a 93 with a 93 1.8L Intake manifold and ECU strapped into a 95 2.2L n/a long block and of course... boost. I am still waiting on the support cable and only have the E-Manage hooked up without the TPS hooked up (for now).

What should my rotary settings be???

Chad
93 2.2T
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Old 06-21-2004, 01:57 AM   #2
subachad
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I just changed the settings to 3-6-1 but it still starts flashing red as soon as I give it a little rev.

Thing is, I know the fuel is getting richer as I can tell by the Air/fuel gauge.

When I turn the car off, then back on it blinks 2 times red. What does this mean???

Chad
93 2.2T
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Old 06-21-2004, 02:26 AM   #3
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A few things.... First start with this:

http://mohdparts.com/emanage/manual..._manual/040.JPG
http://mohdparts.com/emanage/manual..._manual/041.JPG

I would suggest whatever settings you use on the rotary switches, you check your airflow input and output voltages on your E-manage unit with a voltage meter to make sure they are equivalent... well that's assuming your airflow map is zeroed out.

It's tough to trial and error when you're already running FI, but for what it's worth, here was my experience. I had the E-Manage installed and used the rotary settings recommended for the 01 MAP sensor (3-4-2). I was getting CELs left and right. I would turn my car off and get an error code-11 (loss of airflow signal) which is probably what you're getting. After recording a log file and running a few trips up and down the road, I noticed my airflow output voltage was bottoming out on deceleration, almost to .10v.

I guess there was never a Subaru MAP sensor rotary setting programmed into the E-Manage unit (just the MAF) so we had to experiment a little with the rotary settings. Eventually we set it to 3-4-0 and that solved the problem. Input and output voltages were equivalent, no more CELs, but we would still get an error code every now and then. I just learned to ignore it.

Oh and make sure everything is soldered and taped properly if you haven't already.

-Brett

Last edited by ExecNav; 11-19-2004 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 06-21-2004, 02:33 AM   #4
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Also, when you receive the support tool, make sure you have the most up to date firmware V1.39 found HERE.

-Brett

Last edited by ExecNav; 06-21-2004 at 02:53 AM.
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:51 AM   #5
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Experiment

I am using 362 I think. I need to experiment with mine though and check its operation because it's acting really funny.
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Old 06-21-2004, 10:40 PM   #6
subachad
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I'll try 3-6-4... I think now I have 3-6-2 or 3-6-1, they both give me the same results. I was able to drive the car today for about 5 minutes without the red light...

A few suspicions I have is

1> the wire going from the E-Manage to the ECU, a few years ago when I tried the Field SFC, I had to use a standard connector and lengthen the wire. There's a picture of it in the link below, I'm a little embarassed to let others see it though... I'll try stripping it back some, soldering on a matching gauge wire and solder it to the E-Manage instead of using the provided bullet connector.

2> The firmware, maybe an update will help as it did for someone in the yahoo emanage group.

3> Maybe I should connect the TPS (gray wire)?

That's it, I'll try the 3-6-4 setting for now and in a few days when I get a chance, touch up the wireing.

http://www.uniquemotorsports.com/sub...ds/emanage.htm

Chad
93 2.2T
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Old 06-21-2004, 11:35 PM   #7
subachad
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Tried 3-6-4 and the car promptly dies. Set it back to 3-6-2. The more I think about it and the more I look at that picture, I really think it has something to do with the wire going from the E-manage to the ECU.

Chad
93 2.2T

EDIT: while testing the intercooler duct, I found 3-6-3 to be the smoothest setting.

Last edited by subachad; 06-22-2004 at 04:13 AM.
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Old 07-25-2004, 02:23 AM   #8
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3-6-2 Is the final setting... it works best.

Now I'm wondering for the ignition output jumper setting. Should that be 12v or 5???

The red flashing light that I was getting when teh car dipped below 1000 RPM was fixed by updating the e-manage once I got the cable. I also set the start point to 1000 RPM for the Airflow adjustment rather than the 2000 RPM which it defaults to.

Now I just need to get the injector and ignition harness installed. I'll post up results here for future searches.

Chad
93 2.2T
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Old 07-25-2004, 06:41 PM   #9
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Chad, I didnt read the replies... I think I have similiar setup, and I am either using 3-6-1 or 3-6-2. my emanage is burried in my center consol so i can't check. But rest assured it is one of those. I think it depends on if its the earlier or later model MAF sensor, but i could be mistaken.

BTW, if you ever do some tuning w/ that using wideband 02 or dyno, let me look at your basemap. I would like to compare yours to mine.

-Jake
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Old 07-26-2004, 01:30 AM   #10
subachad
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Hi Jake,

You can check your settings with the support tool. I'm using 3,6,2. I have a write up on my website with pictures of the current injector and timing maps. There are still some flat spots around 2k at 7psi and slight detonation in the upper RPM's. I'm going to have my girlfriend drive the car while I tune it... much safer than the way I setup the current maps.

Oh and as for my setup, I'm running a 95 2.2 n/a block which should be about 9.5:1 or so, vs's your turbo block, so we are a little different on the setup. Hopefully it won't be "too" much longer before I get the better block, but in the meantime I'm pretty happy with the current setup.

There is another post I started in the Engine Management Forum to help out any other's that are about to install this. Also, there is a link to the write up on my site there. I put a lot of time into the write up and it's pretty informative. As for the other post, please add anything to it that you think might help future Emanagers.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=601454

Chad
93 2.2T
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Old 07-26-2004, 10:50 AM   #11
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Alright great Chad... Even though I think im one of the first people on this board to be running Emanage, I am still relatively not familiar w/ it. If kinda wing-ed my way through it, and got some settings that just seem to work. Im still experiencing alot of popping from excessive raw fuel on decel.

My problem I think is my old 22t injectors. Ive had this problem even when I was using SAFC, and not until i threw the 360's in there. So tuning failed injectors is a bit more difficult, ha ha.

I will check out your thread and post my thoughts.

-Jake
(Unsung Boxer)
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:58 AM   #12
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I don't want to sound stupid but... In your write up you said you did away with the rrfpr. Why? I will be putting in the e-manage and I have a rrfpr. So I don't need to put this in?

Jason
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Old 07-27-2004, 02:12 PM   #13
subachad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LegacyJones
I don't want to sound stupid but... In your write up you said you did away with the rrfpr. Why? I will be putting in the e-manage and I have a rrfpr. So I don't need to put this in?

Jason
Hi Jason,

For the original tuning where I only adjusted the airflow, I needed the RRFPR installed. Once I hooked up the fuel and injector harness I disconnected the RRFPR prior to tuning. That said, I did not need the RRFPR, but maybe you will. I would try tuning it without the RRPFR first though.

What is your setup? Engine? boost? year?

Chad
93 2.2T
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Old 07-27-2004, 06:53 PM   #14
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It will be:

wrx block (my02)
2.5 heads and intake (my00)
minam up and down
t3/t4
walbro 255
rc 550's
emanage
forgot to add injector and tining harness

Jason

Last edited by LegacyJones; 07-28-2004 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 07-29-2004, 04:06 AM   #15
subachad
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That sounds like a great setup, but I'm not sure if the Emanage will be able to scale down enough injectors larger than 420cc.

I'll copy and past an explanation from the Yahoo message group. This to me makes sense and you might want to look into it... or get some 420cc injectors.

--- In emanage@yahoogroups.com, Wael El-Dasher <wael.eldasher@a...>
wrote:
> Actually it is only 50% larger, the 150% is only a marketing
gimmick.
>
> All I am trying to do is help. The guy is asking why is his car
running
> bad with 450cc injectors even though he used the injector change
> table... and I told him because he has the wrong size injectors.
GReddy
> math is as follows... you take the stock injector, multiply it by
1.5
> (150/100) and you have the maximum size.
>
> He can run whatever injectors he likes but the compensation will
not
> work for beyond 1.5 times the size of stock. He will have to retune
and
> modify his map, put whatever resistors that will do the job...etc.
>
> I am not trying to argue, he asked for a solution and I hold him to
> return the 450cc and get 360cc. That's it, problem solved and why
are
> we debating all this anyway? He should pick up the phone and call a
PSD
> dealer (or more than one if necessary) and get the answer is a few
> minutes!
>
> I frankly don't understand why is there a big fuss and why I have
to
> prove anything. GReddy math is different from the rest of the world
and
> if they advertise that you can only run 50% larger injectors it
won't
> look as sexy as 150%, just like when all the Japanese shock
companies
> say stupid things like 16 way adjustable shocks...that is clearly a
> marketing gimmick because there is no such thing as 16 way! They
are 1
> way adjustable with 16 steps, not 16 way. But 1 way adjustable
doesn't
> sound sexy. The emanage is very good computer but it's limited and
it
> can not simply control accurately injectors that much larger, which
is
> why it cost $300 not $1200 or more. It can not add more than 50%
fuel
> in the map tables....why?
>
> The separation of marketing and engineering is blurry, but this is
a
> very good tool up to a limit. It can not replace a stand alone and
> don't expect it to control injectors approximately 3 times the size
of
> stock.
>
> I will use an example from the Support Tool manual. On page 26 it
> explains simply.
>
> "If the factory ECU injector duty cycle is 50%, and 30% was
inputted in
> this Additional Injection Map (which is a misnomer since the
Additional
> Injection Map increases factory fuel injectors)
>
> 50+ (50 x 0.3) = 65%" That means that 50% increase in duty cycle is
> really only a 15% increase in fuel.
>
> Using that example let's look at the fuel used.
>
> a 240cc injector running at 100% is putting out 240cc of fuel
correct?
>
> Now if you add 50% more to the injector duty cycle...the max that
you
> can possible input in the table (even though the manual says you
can
> input 100% but it can't). Then you have the following
>
> 240cc + (240 x 0.5) = 360cc correct?
>
> BUT, your injector is ALREADY AT 100%, adding 50% in the table is
not
> going to add any more fuel. So, you need a 120cc more
>
> 240+ 120 is 360
>
> Which is also why GReddy say you can only run 150% larger injector,
but
> it's really only 50% larger.
>
> Can you run a larger injector that 360cc? Sure, but you will have
to do
> more tuning and can not depend on the correction from the injector
> change table and you are asking the computer to work at a
resolution
> much higher than it can handle, at that point you need a standalone.
>
> cheers
>
> W


And this

No problem...but I know I am right because that's what GReddy
uses, and
> > that is why when you add fuel in your injector map it can only
increase
> > 50%. Try entering a number higher that 50 in your fuel cell...you
will
> > get an error message saying that it can only add 50%, no more. The
> > reason is the same, it can only use an injector that is 150% the
size
> > of the stock, which is really like you said only 50% larger than
stock.
> >
> > I suggest you call any good GReddy PSD dealer, the only dealers
that
> > can sell and support e-manage support tool, and ask them, they
will
> > confirm what I said is correct. There are several such shops
listed in
> > GReddy's website.
> >
> > Go to http://www.greddy.com --> dealers --> call any with the PSD
next
> > to their name
> >
> >
> > cheers
> >
> > W


You could lower the fuel pressure or just cross your fingers and hope it works. How much power do you plan on getting? Have you used the injector sizing calculators at RC Engineering to see what exactly you need?

Chad
93 2.2T
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Old 07-29-2004, 07:59 AM   #16
LegacyJones
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Good write up. I also have a set of wrx injectors. 440's though. Would they be better to use than the 550's. I bought the rc's off a member. How much power as much as it will give me. LOL. So i will need the rrfpr? To lower the preassure?

Jason
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Old 07-29-2004, 05:29 PM   #17
subachad
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You can only raise the fuel pressure with the RRFPR. To lower the fuel pressure, you would have to get rid of your stock FPR and replace it with an adjustable.

I would say try tuning it with the 440's and and should work out pretty well. The E-Manage will tell you if you are maxing out the injectors so you will know if it comes to that. Also, it will get you running and running pretty well. If you end up cranking up the boost and needing more fuel, then keep the 550's for an upgrade path.

Ultimately it's your own decision. I personally like to tune in small sections so if something goes wrong I don't have as much troubleshooting to do.

Chad
93 2.2T
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Old 07-29-2004, 07:59 PM   #18
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Ultimately it's your own decision. I personally like to tune in small sections so if something goes wrong I don't have as much troubleshooting to do.

Chad
93 2.2T[/quote]

I hear that!!!!

Thanks jason
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Old 08-28-2004, 08:58 PM   #19
ExecNav
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Rather than creating a new thread, figured I'd just add to this one.

For a few weeks, I had been using the rotary settings 3-4-0 which gave me an erratic MAP output voltage at idle. It would skip around from .73v to roughly 0.45v... in little valleys and plateaus. On deceleration, the lowest the output voltage would hit was .27v.

Just for S&Gs, I decided to go back to 3-4-2. This setting gives me a very smooth output voltage at idle, roughly .73v but on deceleration (and as the RPMS fall in neutral), the output voltage bottoms out to .09v! This can't be normal.

So I'm guessing I have to decide which I want more, a smooth idle, or .09V MAP output signal on deceleration. I'm leaning towards the latter but not sure if my ECU will agree. I have data logs for all of this if anyone who can possibly help me out wants to take a look. Thanks!

-Brett
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Old 08-29-2004, 01:47 AM   #20
subachad
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Brett,

This might not be a "fix" but more of a workaround. Set the "BC" setting at .78 accross the board. This way, even if your MAP setting goes all the way down to .2, the ECU will never see less than .78. I did this to run an open BOV on my MAF based car.

The actual MAF reading at idle goes from .44 to .8 because air is coming in through the BOV as well. By setting the BC at .78 the car idles smooth and with the BOV sucking in air it actually idles better than when I have the BOV completely disconnected.

Chad
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Old 08-29-2004, 03:05 AM   #21
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I'm not sure I follow. Are you sure you mean the Boost Limiter Cut and not the Anti Engine Stall? The BC (at least on MAP-based vehicles) is used to keep the MAP sensor from sending the ECU too high of a voltage under boost. I currently have mine set to 4.6v. I'm not really sure what would happen if I set it to .78 but I don't imagine it would be good. That would mean at WOT for instance, the ECU would only be seeing .78v from the MAP sensor rather than say 4 volts.

I can see your theory working with the anti engine stall since, as far as I know, that's used to keep the voltage above a certain point. I would need to switch back to my original rotary setting since the Anti Engine Stall map is only effective below 1500 RPMS and the rough idle was the only problem. I could try and set the anti engine stall voltage to .73v or thereabouts and see if that works.

Or maybe perhaps I am completely lost and you really did mean Boost Limiter Cut. Maybe it's just a MAF thing.

-Brett
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Old 08-29-2004, 02:53 PM   #22
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You are right, I meant the ES setting. My bad.
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