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Old 06-21-2004, 10:18 AM   #1
Hitokiri
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Talking Turbo In!

Well I did a 24hour marathon turbo install on my car this weekend. It was a long haul but we made it!!! lol. We puled the motor at my house to do the oil pan and clutch/flywheel install.

Basic kit

ludespeed pipes
tial 35mm (4.5psi)
T3 60
WRX 420 inj.
7 series NGKs
ludespeed bar and plate beatstick... i mean intercooler
HKS SS BOV
ludespeed catch can
jun flywheel
act max extreme pressure plate
organic disk
Greddy Emanage
+ some gauges

I am borrowing a friends LM1 to road tune with.

I learned sooo much which was amazing. I can't imagine working on the car or driving it for that matter not knowing how everything was done.

I didn't drive the car to work today because I want to do some more road tuning but we made it to the Exeter meet!

Car is running surprisingly well for only having the injectors scaled and removing some fuel up top. I currently have 1/2 tank 87 + 1/2 tank 93 + 3/4 gal tolulene mix in the tank. Next tank will e 93 + that small 1/4 of tol that I have left. I think I may be running on 3 cyl though because the idle is pretty rough. I checked and all the injectors are firing. If I pull the boots at the plugs the car doesn't die.... when I plug them back in, it idles smooth for a second, and then goes back to rough. That was the same effect for all of the injectors. The LM1 my firend let me boorow says I am hitting 20:1 afr at idle!!!!!!! and I get right into the tens in any kind of throttle about 30% or above. The car never sees EGTs higher than 1450 w/ the bung 4" off of #4. The Tial 35 holds boost PERFECTLY at 4.5lbs. Its pretty incredible.

anyways. more testing and dataloggs tonight.

any ideas?

Todd
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Old 06-21-2004, 10:56 AM   #2
8Complex

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Quote:
Originally posted by Hitokiri
If I pull the boots at the plugs the car doesn't die.... when I plug them back in, it idles smooth for a second, and then goes back to rough.
Actually, now that doesn't sound like a misfire... if you already had one cylinder misfiring, you'd pull a different plug and the engine would pretty much die. It can run on 3 cylinders, but not 2.

When you plug it back in and it idles smooth, it probably is idling up a little bit, or richening it up.

I still really find it strange that you can cruise at around 16-16.5:1 and still only throw about 1400 EGT's...
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Old 06-21-2004, 12:05 PM   #3
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Holy crap Hitokiri! You did it. How is the boost? I bet its real nice. 24 hours? How many people helped you and you did it in your garage? What was the most time consuming part? That is frreakin awesome. I just feel like I screwed myself last december when I got a stock replacement clutch. Damn. Oh well, crap happens. PLEASE keep us all posted on how it all goes!!!
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Old 06-21-2004, 12:29 PM   #4
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crk4 - actually I did it with the help of 3 guys 4 at the most. Having the help of seome people that have had subaru motors out beofre was a must for confidence for me though. RSmatt was key as we my friend James. They both know there stuff. RSEngima and DeusEsMachina stuck in there for the entire time with me even not sleeping saterday night to make it to exeter and show all those naysayers that we could do it... .... ... ... a certian caged/ flaired person was doubting us... although we was alot of help in offering his advice by phone during the install. So was 8.

we might be doing another 1 or 2 around the weekend of the 4th if you want to help / prepare for your swap. I'd offer you a couch to crash on.

8 - yeah its wierd. The other thing is: I reset the ECU and left the .78ish MAF corection in place. It died, then started up and idled stoic at 14.5-7. After a few seconds it died so I started it again and it hit stoic perfectly. This time I feathered the throttle and it ran quite well actually. it still wanted to die however. I didn't have time to remove the overall correction because I had to run to work, but thats what I had to do yesterday in order to get it to idle well. The interesting this is, if I keep feathering the throttle, it eventually leans itself way out to the 16 - 20 I was seening before the reset. I am going to fire up my OBD2 and look at the fuel trims and inj durations under this situation when I get home.

any ideas?

Todd
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Old 06-21-2004, 12:52 PM   #5
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I'm not exactly the authority on this, but I talked to someone and he said 20:1 at idle is lean and is probably why your car wont idle well.

Can you richen it up at 0% throttle at idle RPMs?
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Old 06-21-2004, 12:53 PM   #6
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Todd - Thanks for the offer. I very well might take that up to watch and help in an install before I tackle doing my own. Anyone around New Jersey have experience pulling motors? I only know of Need4Boost (i think) in Morristown...I bought the IC and bov from him.

What kind of custom HOSING (material) did you have to use to install the intercooler charge pipe and the intake? What route did you go with your intake?

Chris
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Old 06-21-2004, 12:58 PM   #7
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all the piping and hosing was done previously as it was ludespeed everything. The only thing we had to do was cut the intake pipe to get the MAF is there as my car obviously isn't MAP based...

I bought this as a used kit from 8. Thats a big factor in the smoothness of the install.

Todd
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Old 06-21-2004, 01:02 PM   #8
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Phil - Yeah after thinking about it I definitely think it is dangerously lean at idle and thats why I didn't drive it to work today because I was unsure of it. I want to take some datalogs and figure out if the emanage is really doing what it claims to be doing. Maybe I have a wire wrong or something. Although I ran it NA with the emanage for almost 3 weeks with 0 problems. The thing that kills be is the only way I can get it to stay stoic at idle is if I zero out everything on the emanage.

that makes me think there is something wrong with its operation.

Todd
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Old 06-21-2004, 01:12 PM   #9
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Don't 0 out everything. Can you change correction at certain points?

Like at idle?

Make the ECU control it at idle. Can you control RPM/throttle maps? I know you can control RPM/air maps. At 700 RPM make it think it has more air than it does, so it'll want more fuel in there. It shouldn't necessarily be stoich at idle, I think it should be wavering, but it shouldn't be really lean constantly.
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Old 06-21-2004, 01:21 PM   #10
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i dont know your setup but it sounds tuning related, your scaling maybe incorrect or your idle settings, maybe you have the injector size set incorrect or something but if it instantly goes to 10:1 with throttle that is strange.


good luck though

Ben
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Old 06-21-2004, 01:54 PM   #11
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phil. I can control that of course you have seen the tables. But putting bandaids everywhere is where people run into problems with the computer learing around the settings. The car idles PERFECT 0'd out. Even drives nicely not even under boost zerod out (but PIG rich ~9.0 under open loop lol) so I started backing out on the fuel little by little with the correction factor as the ecu was learning.

Right now what I believe the problem to be is that the ecu has indeed learned alot. Thats why it runs well under boost bacuse we drove it cruising and litely boostling to epping. Now those fuel trims that it learned are bieng applied at idle where IDC's are down to almost nothing. The idle learing it had done to run stoic in the beginning is not meaningless and it runs super lean as a result of learing to correct for so much fuel (420cc inj) under open loop with fuel trims. My OBD scanner will show me real time "short term" and "long term" fuel trims. I am going to check those out tonight.

Todd

ps. I have an appointment at XX next thursday..............
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Old 06-21-2004, 02:01 PM   #12
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Hey Todd - What are your fuel pressures reading? I don't remember if I asked before, but if it's reading some odd numbers, that could be an issue. I have seen some cars with upgraded pumps run strange pressures on the stock regulator...
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Old 06-21-2004, 02:54 PM   #13
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39 - 44 at WOT
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Old 06-21-2004, 03:31 PM   #14
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How about at idle? Around the low 30's?
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Old 06-21-2004, 03:37 PM   #15
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It idles at 39. I was watching the car idle for like 15 minutes after we got it running.
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Old 06-21-2004, 03:45 PM   #16
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Hmmm... that could be a problem... I bet the WRX pump is upping the fueling there (the stock FPR can't handle much more fuel flow). You could try an FPR from a 98RS, WRX, SVX, or XT6 to solve it, if you can find one. I got an SVX one out of a junkyard for $30 a few years back. It'd have been less had I gotten it locally instead of having to order it.
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Old 06-21-2004, 04:39 PM   #17
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Sounds like a good fix for 30 bucks. I'd hold off changing your fuel filter too, then. We were going to do it, but it wasn't exactly priority. If its clogged some, it's helping the fuel pressure.
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Old 06-21-2004, 04:41 PM   #18
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sounds good I will see if I can find one.

Todd
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:14 AM   #19
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I am worried about my clutch install.

there is a funny, chlick-chlick sound that is becoming more noticable when I let off the throttle. I can make it happen by being in a high gear and tapping the throttle to get the drivetrain to snap back and forth lightly. It doesn't take much to get it to happen. I believe it only happens with the clutch out. Is It possible to install the throwout bearing wrong such that this might happen? I greased the shaft and put the clips on the new bearing.....I also have a sqeaking that is starting. Both are obviously in the belhousing. Well maybe not the squeak but it seems like it is.

I think the squeak is the pilot bearing cause I used the one that was in the flywheel and it was used. Should I have replaced it? can you press them out and replace them?

The other wierd thing is the clutch engages RIGHT off the floor like one centemeter from the floor it is engaged and never releases pressure from my foot even when it is all the way out. It doesn't seem like it ever get all the way out. It will only shift with the clutch pegged against the floor otherwist it would grind because the clutch is out a little.

any idea? Do I have to pull the engine again to replace that pilot bearing?

Last edited by Hitokiri; 06-22-2004 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 06-22-2004, 10:33 AM   #20
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Sounds like the throw out bearing, more specifically, one of the pins holding it onto the shift fork. Were either of the pins bent out more than the other? As long as it's shifting fine, you should be okay. Is there a crunch feeling at the bottom of your clutch pedal?

Brent
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:16 AM   #21
Hitokiri
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no there is no crunch feeling - but it does have a ACT max extreme pressure plate. I don't know if a super strong PP would effect me feeling the "crunch"

was I suposed to get new clips when I did the TOB? They seemed to be on there pretty good.

can you explain to me exactly why I hear that noise if its the TOB?

is it because the TOB is tapping against the shift fork? the Pressure plate? The it seems like there is a movement in the drivetrain dispite the clutch being out and the car in gear. it slides back and forth I can feel it hitting on each side.

Tod

Last edited by Hitokiri; 06-22-2004 at 11:44 AM.
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:25 AM   #22
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Some people say to but if there wasn't anything wrong with the clips it doesn't matter.

It'll suck, but I'll be for taking the engine out again. It should seperate nice and easy this time.

Oh and by the way, after we finish your car, and do TJ's engine swaps, we're taking the engine out of my Legacy Turbo and doing clutch, flywheel, valve covers, crank oil seal, rear main seal, timing belt, water pump, oil pump, cam seals and new plugs/wires.

It'll be cake by then.
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:26 AM   #23
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Oh, and if we take the engine out again, you're loctiting the pressure plate and flywheel bolts.
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:44 AM   #24
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no ****!

lol

bringn on the legacy!
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Old 06-22-2004, 11:55 AM   #25
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I think it might be the pins rattling around. If you said they were still good and the clutch pedal still feels normal, then I would say that it's just the pins vibrating when there is no force or pressure on them against the pressure plate.

Brent
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