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Old 10-20-2000, 06:13 PM   #1
mms4ba
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Angry Anyone who's ever had clutch shudder, please read!

I've done searches on all this and need some clarification:

For reference, I have a MY98 and get clutch shudder when the car is cold.

I've heard of people getting their clutches replaced under warranty. Seems like sometimes that ends it, and sometimes it comes back. replaced by subaru to fix the problem. And it goes away for good. PLEASE SHARE YOUR EXPERIENCES!

just picked my car up from the dealer and they say the clutch is worn out (they made this diagnosis only by experiencing the shudder). I do not get any clutch slip (like a worn clutch).

So they want $600 or so for a new clutch, and I'm thinking that this isn't the problem and that my freakin clutch isn't even worn! ARRRG!

Matt

[This message has been edited by mms4ba (edited October 25, 2000).]
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Old 10-20-2000, 06:31 PM   #2
ColinL
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The pressure plate is not strong enough. Ask them to explain why the 2000 2.5RS has a significantly stronger clutch plate yet the engine still produces the same power.

One reason that might come to mind is that the older one isn't sufficient, which keeps the clutch from mating smoothly and leads to hotspots on the flywheel. Soon the clutch starts skipping on the raised hotspots and the only solution is a new clutch face, resurfacing the flywheel, and hopefully (if you are smart) and new pressure plate.

Anyway, if they persist don't buy the stock clutch. Even the latest revision is inferior to the ACT street clutch and more expensive too. You might have them install that, unless you find a well-qualifed independent that will do the job for less.
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Old 10-20-2000, 07:05 PM   #3
Joel Gat, 1.8L
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Hello,

Okay, now I really need the seach all forums option, 'cause my little idea (that I fought for) of a multitude of forums means I have no clue where to find my old posts. I once posted the full and complete details including all the part numbers and all the relevent information needed. I don't remember what the results of my intense research were and I don't keep my own posts (I like hearing myself talk, but not that much ).

If someone has that, please post it up. You know, I should make a Joel-FAQ Anyway, at the end of all my research, I went down to Subaru of Santa Cruz (the same dealership that sponsored the Thunderhill Subaru Track Day) and verified all the part numbers with someone. Romero or Romano or something like that was his last name, and Joe or John or Jon was his first name. I know, useless But that's all I can remember. I think that was about 8 months ago, maybe a year.

The point being, call Subaru of Santa Cruz and ask for the parts department and specifically for Joe or John Romero or Romano and tell him someone from the i-club (or say my name, whatever) once posted a huge post about the new part numbers for the clutch, flywheel, and pressure plate and that you need some info on what needs to be replaced since you have a '98 with the clutch shudder.

Subaru of Santa Cruz is about as awesome as a dealership could possibly be...

Joel
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Old 10-20-2000, 07:12 PM   #4
mcgyver
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I also have a MY98. I too experience a lot of clutch chatter when it's cold. Lot's when I engage slowly, so I just release quickly. I told the dealer about it, they kept it over night to experience it for themselves. They acknowledge the chatter, but say the clutch is a "wear item." So in other words, not covered under warranty. Seems like BS to me, but what can I do? I'll probably hit 36,000 tomorrow, Oh Well!
Just my experience........Thanks, Adam
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Old 10-20-2000, 07:13 PM   #5
wac
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Joel,

I don't remember if I got it from your post, but I've kept a copy of the parts list (minus the flywheel):
AA411 clutch cover
AA690 clutch disk
AA051 release bearing
1002 bearing
AA020 gasket
Does this look familiar?

The stock clutch on my MY97 2.2L started slipping earlier this summer. Now I have the ACT Street clutch. The disc is the same as the stock one, but the pressure plate is much stronger.

The old clutch disc still looks fine (less than 1/2 worn), but the pressure plate has some funny-looking wavy lines on its surface. I'm guessing that's what a glazed pressure plate looks like.

Hope this helps,

-WaC
Wayne
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Old 10-20-2000, 07:29 PM   #6
Penphoe
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Have a Nice Day?

I have a MY00 and I too have experienced a shuddering clutch. I inquired about this at my dealership, and they said that the shudder is due to condensation on the clutch face causing slippage/shuddering. I dunno if this is BS or not.

Like most people, clutch shuddering was most noticable in cold weather. For the past few weeks in Vancouver, we've had quite warm weather for fall. Just recently, it has started to become cold AND damp/humid, and my car is starting to shudder again.

Perhaps there is a relationship between temperature/humidity and clutch shuddering? Just throwing out a hypothesis and seeing if anyone else notices this too!

LaterZ!
Darren!!
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Old 10-20-2000, 08:01 PM   #7
paultg
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Post

I had my clutch replaced under warranty on my '99 RS w/ 18,000 miles on it.
These are the part numbers that were used to replace the old clutch and the part description off the invioce:
30100AA690 PT090399 Disk C
30502AA051 Radial Ball Bearing
30210AA411 PT090399 Clutch
12342AA000 Flywheel AY Fle
44022AA020 Gasket (They used 2)

The service manager told me they replaced the original flywheel with a 2-piece design. I am not sure if the originals were a one piece design or not. Whatever they used, it worked. I have had no problems since.

The description of work is as follows:
R&R Transmission, Replaced Pressure Plate & Flywheel (Blued), Replaced Clutch Disk as Resulting damage

Hope this helps.

Paul G.
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Old 10-20-2000, 08:55 PM   #8
mms4ba
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Unhappy

I was planning on picking up someone's stock clutch they took off for something better...

Hmmm...but If people with MY99 and MY00 are having clutch shudder as well, then that may not do much to help my problem...

Where's the guy who had the clutch replaced, shudder came back, then Subaru replaced his tranny case, which solved the prob? Or did I dream this?

Matt
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Old 10-20-2000, 09:39 PM   #9
paultg
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Post

Hey Adam,
The Subaru Power Train Warranty is 5 yrs/60,000 miles, so you have a ways to go.
It is a wear item, but a factory defect. Fight it. If you have to, get invoice from people like me with proof of the repair. Also call SOA.

Paul G.
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Old 10-21-2000, 06:31 AM   #10
rschwarzwalder
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Matt, I have copies of invoices indicating warranty repair of the clutch chatter, let me know if you need them!
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Old 10-21-2000, 09:10 AM   #11
Rickd
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I get very little clutch shudder, but when I do it is always the day after it has been raining. In my case it definitly has something to do with the humidity.
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Old 10-21-2000, 11:45 AM   #12
Ken S
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Had the clutch assmebly replaced on my 98 Forester at 23K miles for clutch chatter. I'm at 46K miles now and no problems to report.

Here are the parts they used:

12310AA211 Flywheel CP
30100AA690 Disk CP
30210AA411 Clutch cover
30502AA051 Radial Ball Bearing
44022AA020 Gasket

I had mine done at Stevens Creek in San Jose. The dealer recognized it immediately and I repaired it in a matter of days.
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Old 10-21-2000, 12:01 PM   #13
Fish
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Hmm..

I've got a 2000.. I've gotten some shudder from time to time..

usually in the morning on a colder day.. goes away in a minute or two though..

hasn't worried me much.. should I be concerend?
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Old 10-22-2000, 09:50 AM   #14
Stavros g
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Thumbs down

I have a 2000 with 11,400 miles and my clutch shudders very violently for the first 5-8 shifts in the morning. Done so since 5k miles..

I am tracking it now with dates, only happened once in the last 2 months, but the temperature was low (2-5 degrees C) and humidity HIGH (87%).

A Subaru mechanic I spoke to once said they had temperature/humidity related problems with the intermittent legacy starting problem. Japan sent some engineers over to study the conditions (CANADA has some interesting weather patterns) and they couldn't understand how humididty could be that high and temperature that low, the rate in which they increased/decreased.

Maybe the same thing is happening here.

Stavros
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Old 10-22-2000, 11:42 AM   #15
ColinL
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Exclamation

Stavros, you should get yours into the dealer IMMEDIATELY, as in right NOW. Shudder is definitely covered under the 1 year / 12,000 mile adjustment warranty, of which you are ALMOST out of.

Once you're out of the adjustment warranty you might be able to get it covered and you might not. Some gracious members have posted here that they would provide their documentation as proof that shudder had been covered under the powertrain warranty. I personally would accept their offer but I'd rather pay the money myself for a better (ACT street) clutch.
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Old 10-22-2000, 08:23 PM   #16
mms4ba
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Thanks to all who have replied.

I've decided to fight SOA and the dealer to get my clutch covered under powertrain warranty. I have a MY98 with 50K now, but I've complained 2 or 3 times (have docs) since 38K.

PLEASE e-mail me if you have had yours replaced under warranty, and still have the papers. I would be forever grateful for some paper ammo to argue my case that the clutch is a factory defect.

Thanks,
Matt
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Old 10-23-2000, 09:39 AM   #17
Travis R
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Lightbulb

Just FYI the "updated" parts are still crap.
I had the flywheel, pressure plate, and disk all replaced under warranty at 14,000 miles. I am now at about 38,000 miles and this pressure plate has also failed (partially collapsed, same problem as at 14K).
I think that Subaru designed the clutch to be just slightly stronger than what the car can put out under normal driving situations. So if you are hard on the car, they give out. I could probably get the parts replaced under warranty again, but why bother. I'm going with ACT.
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Old 10-23-2000, 10:27 AM   #18
bluesubie
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Joel,
I found one of your posts on the STi mailing list archives. http://www.egr.unlv.edu/~simon/2.5RS.../digest105.txt
Forester and Impz 2.5 cover [and] disc [part numbers]
>from 05/97 to 02/98 P/N [cover] 30210AA370 + [disc] 30100AA660
>this disc is no longer available, and clutch must be replaced as
>a set with current specified parts.
>from 03/98 to 06/99 P/N [cover] 30210AA410 + [disc] 30100AA690
>this cover is no longer available, superseded by 30210AA411
>(we do not have 30210AA410 to compare- it may be as you've described)
>from 07/99 to present P/N [cover] 30210AA411 + [disc] 30100AA690

Dennis
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Old 10-23-2000, 10:50 AM   #19
Bonzo
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here's a bit more...I have a my01RS Sedan. Les than 2000 miles on the clock, head out to work this morning and get the shudder! It only happened once. I have felt this many times on my past car also (91 Gvr4). I have broken in my Scoobie easily, never ran it to hard till this past weekend while spectating at the Lake Suprerior Pro rally (lots O fun) I had the chance to drive one of the stages when they were done. I did a few hard starts on gravel and sand, nothing terribly hard on the clutch cuz the tires spun. I am not sure if my past weekends use/fun has prompted this shudder. BTW the weather today is 50deg. and rainy!

I just hope that this car is not this fragile that a person can't have a little fun w/o worrying the car is going to break. I will keep close tabs on my shuddering Scoob.

Bonzo
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:21 AM   #20
Skidd
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This is what I've heard about that clutch chatter in the Subie. I can't for the life of me remember where I heard this, but it sounded pretty good to me.

The chatter in our clutch when it's cold is _normal_. The reason for this is that our clutch is designed to work when it's hot so it can take a bit more slipping that an average clutch. Sorta like racing brakes, they requires some heat to work properly.

It's a fine line between an easy to use smooth clutch, and a good performance clutch. If you want great grip, you usualy sacrifice a smooth peddal. If you want smooth engagement, you usually sacrifice good grab.

Anyway. thats my .02 worth.

----------
00RS
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:25 AM   #21
8Complex

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From what I've heard, there was a silent recall of the clutches of the 98's or 99's (don't remember, but they had the same clutch so...). I have a MY00 and I believe mine chatters as well - not that it won't be replaced by 30k or anything though.
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:37 AM   #22
ColinL
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Skidd: no, this is not normal nor is it good.

Read the my first post in this topic (second post) and in the second paragraph I describe exactly what is causing the shudder.
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Old 10-23-2000, 11:51 AM   #23
Rez
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I also have the problem but what I do to fix it is when I get in the car, while it is warming up (a couple of minutes on very cold mornings) I put the e-brake on and take it out of gear. I then work the clutch a coule of dozen times.

I may get 1 or 2 gearshifts with shudder but after that, it's fine. The mod to fix the issue I haven't tried but that is what gave me the idea. I figure that at cold temperatures, the grease that lubes the clutch mechanism is sluggish. When I work the clutch, it warms up. Nuff said.

-Rez
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Old 10-23-2000, 12:25 PM   #24
Skidd
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ColinL:
So it's just that simple? Our presure plate isn't up to the task? Does that mean that every one of us is going to suffer from this problem? I only get the chatter within about the first 1k of driving. And only a couple of times at that.
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Old 10-23-2000, 12:52 PM   #25
stimpy
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Well I have a MY00 and have experienced the problem maybe 4 times since 8k miles (now at 9.7k. It happens on cold mornings, but I cannot remember if it was abnormally humid on those mornings. I just spoke with my dealer on Friday and asked them if they have heard of the 'clutch shudder'. The service advisor simply stated that they have heard of it, and I just need to bring the car in and leave it overnight so they can test it in the morning. I asked what they do with this and he stated said that they will look at it and possibly replace the clutch, flywheel, pressure plate or whatever it takes pending upon the situation. They seem very willing to work with this problem. Only thing that worried me a little is he said to hurry and get it taken care of or they might just dismiss it as a wear item.
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