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Old 06-23-2004, 01:57 PM   #1
wrxinmn
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Default making a lip

i know the obvious response is 'buy one'. but once you pick out a decent one that fits correctly and count in shipping, youre up to like $400.

so how about this... make one similar to the prodrive or sti lip.. no f&f curves or weird contours, just something to make it jut out a little bit and add a little extra depth.

my thoughts were this-
1. take off the front bumper
2. apply 2 layers of tinfoil and 1 of duct tape to keep it relatively thin.
3. wrap the desired area plus a little more with fiberglass cloth, in doing this you'd be able to wrap it nice and tight to ensure a perfectly contoured fit instead of trying to lay down mat. which is sure to start peeling up during the drying process over the curves.
4. let this dry, lightly sand it, and do it a total of 3-4 times.

now is where you start to get creative..

5. using some 1" thick (or the desired added "lowness" you want to ad) attach these to the bottom of the bumper in the natural U shape.
6. hold up a piece of big cardboard under the bumper, flush to the wood spacers, and trace the curve of the bumper.
7. cut this out, trace the pattern onto some thin plyboard (the real thing 3/8" or whatever it is) and cut this out... maybe add about an inch towards where the front of the bumper would be to make it jut out a little.
8. glue this to the wood spacers.. so essentially you have the fiberglass around the bumper, the wood spacers on the bottom, and then the plyboard.
9. anywhere on this setup where you want a subtle curve or rise in the shape (like a little bit of an outward taper at the bottom) attach something along the curve to raise it.. whether it be thick rope, rubber trim.. etc.
10. wrap the whole thing with another piece of fiberglass cloth to ensure a tight fight.. resin, sand, reapply.. etc.
11. probably could start laying a couple layers of mat for added strength.
12. once youve laid enough layers, pop the thing off and start doing your finishing work... cut off the excess, sanding, cutting out any holes where those holes in the lowest part of the stock bumper are..etc.

the reason i thought it'd be good to lay fiberglass on the bumper before constructing the bumper addition was to ensure a snug.. very form fitting fit that almost would 'snap on' in a sense, leaving no room to bounce or anything.

i dont think it would tkae more than a weekend to lay it all down and get the lip made. finishing work would obviously take longer. cost wise.. i would guesstimate MAYBE $100 in total materials and i think thats being generous.

any thoughts on this?
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:09 PM   #2
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Sounds kinda iffy to me.
Great idea at first, but has a lot of holes for rice to pour in.
But if you got the skill, the time, the equipment, and determination, I'm sure you could pull it off.
Post pics when you are done, maybe a DIY guide. GLuck.
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Old 06-23-2004, 02:21 PM   #3
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Default Re: making a lip

Quote:
so how about this... make one similar to the prodrive or sti lip.. no f&f curves or weird contours, just something to make it jut out a little bit and add a little extra depth.
If the goal is to make a small (~ 1 inch tall) lip, might I suggest a less expensive (~ US$20), easier and more durable approach:
( http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=395394 )

Quote:
2. apply 2 layers of tinfoil and 1 of duct tape to keep it relatively thin.
Although I can't offer a better alternative (as I have no experience doing custom fiberglass work), imho applying 2 layers of tin foil & 1 of duct tape wouldn't be that easy.
Quote:
3. wrap the desired area plus a little more with fiberglass cloth, in doing this you'd be able to wrap it nice and tight to ensure a perfectly contoured fit instead of trying to lay down mat. which is sure to start peeling up during the drying process over the curves.
While fiberglass is one of the common materials used (aside from cf and polyurethane for example), I personally wouldn't want to invest my DIY time on a brittle material only to find 1 week later that the hours of hard labor is cracked due to a confrontation with some road debris.
Quote:
i dont think it would tkae more than a weekend to lay it all down and get the lip made. finishing work would obviously take longer. cost wise.. i would guesstimate MAYBE $100 in total materials and i think thats being generous.
One thing I might add is that while the process is sound, it may be tricky to achieve a good result in the end, since subtle differences in curvatures could significantly affect how good the final product looks. Imho, if I were to go through such a complexity, I'd rather get some styrofoam blocks and do a progressive & iterative cuts to make the master mold. Rough cuts first, then refine the curves. Sections that need changing can be replaced by new blocks. Do so until you're happy with the overall curvatures. Then use the shaped styrofoam to mold the fiberglass. If an when the lip breaks, you hopefully can make a replacement using this styrofoam master.

Sounds like fun. Do post your results.
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:45 PM   #4
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Default

applying the tin foil and duct tape wouldnt be hard. ive had to lay it in much more back breaking, weird angled surfaces before. the duct tape can get sticky on the curves but you just use smaller pieces.

my thoughts on the fiberglassing were to lay enough layers that the strength would be increased over a junky knock off replica lip. if youre lowering the front end of the car, in any way, youre always going to be at risk for a bottom out or something breaking but at least this way, 1. i made it so i know how to fix it. 2. im not out $400... or $800 if i went with the cwest v2 bumper. (btw, does anyone know how those gtp bumpers fit? i see theyve got a total replacement for $250).

i like the idea you did but im having most of the black accents on my car painted to match the car.

im interested in hearing more about the styrofoam block method, that would definitely lend itself better towards a redo if need be. are you talking about making a mold that you lay fiberglass from the inside or outside? ie.. is the shape of the bumper and lip concave INTO the styrofoam, or is it convex OUT of it? is there any technical information online that lends itself into doing this?
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Old 06-23-2004, 03:52 PM   #5
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Three words:

Home Depot Lip






Last edited by dubba you are ex; 06-23-2004 at 03:58 PM.
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Old 06-23-2004, 04:49 PM   #6
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wrxinmn:
Quote:
are you talking about making a mold that you lay fiberglass from the inside or outside?
I don't have any links on fiberglass fabrication using styrofoam. My reasons for suggesting styrofoam are:
(1) Styrofoam is relatively rigid yet light enough to make it easy to handle and temporarily glue / attach it to some other surface
(2) It is not that expensive
(3) It is easy to shape
(4) I know they sell styrofoam pads in Home Depot and also styrofoam blocks in Tap Plastics (Tap Plastics also sells fiberglass materials & tools & they have a website)

What I meant about using styrofoam is to make the inside mold, i.e. the surface of the fiberglass sheet that comes into contact with the styrofoam will be the inner surface of the final lip. Imho this is easier for 2 reasons:
(1) You don't have to make the master mold by imagining the negative image of the part you are making.
(2) Any surface imperfections of the styrofoam will not get transmitted to the final outside surface of the part you are making.

dubba you are ex:
That "Home Depot Lip" on the civic looks quite similar to the WRC look lip kit that L'aunsport sells.
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Old 06-23-2004, 04:53 PM   #7
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its still from home depot, look at all the screws he used
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Old 06-23-2004, 04:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by dubba you are ex
its still from home depot, look at all the screws he used
I'm not saying that it's not from Home Depot. I recognize that material used.

I'm just saying that it looks like the WRC look kit from L'aunsport. That one isn't Home Depot price though. I thought it was interesting given that the current Subaru WRC cars uses either screws or rivets in a similar way.
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Old 06-23-2004, 05:01 PM   #9
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enlightened
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Old 06-23-2004, 05:03 PM   #10
wrxinmn
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Default

Quote:
What I meant about using styrofoam is to make the inside mold, i.e. the surface of the fiberglass sheet that comes into contact with the styrofoam will be the inner surface of the final lip. Imho this is easier for 2 reasons:
(1) You don't have to make the master mold by imagining the negative image of the part you are making.
(2) Any surface imperfections of the styrofoam will not get transmitted to the final outside surface of the part you are making.
so essentially if you were going to look at the styrofoam cutout, it would look like youre looking at the front of the bumper?

that would take some pretty good carving skills, is there a better way to do this other than just eyeing it up?
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Old 06-23-2004, 05:32 PM   #11
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Default 3D contouring of layers of styrofoam

Quote:
so essentially if you were going to look at the styrofoam cutout, it would look like youre looking at the front of the bumper?
Precisely.
Quote:
that would take some pretty good carving skills, is there a better way to do this other than just eyeing it up?
Imho, I thought this is much easier than the multiple plywood / board method, at least when it comes to making a 3D contoured part.

As a visual aid to what I meant, here is a mid-process picture of a DIY wing riser I posted nearly a year ago here ( http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=388312 ). I used acrylic instead of styrofoam but that is besides the issue.

On the left is a contoured part, compared with the layers of acrylic before contouring.

This is what I mean:

(1) Using styrofoam sheets & blocks of known length, width, and thickness, one can lay out a symmetric arrangement of these foam pieces, temporarily glued / affixed to the front bumper cover's bottom side.

(2) Do this layer by layer (i.e. arrange pieces of the same height for example), taking care to maintain mirror image between blocks placed on the right hand side and left hand side.

(3) Stack the layers in a similar concept as the wing riser photo above.

(4) Eye & draw a contour shape for each layer, perhaps just on one side.

(5) Remove all the foam pieces (taking care to number them so you know which one belongs to where).

(6) Copy the contour lines on the mirror image blocks.

(7) Put them back together, assembled as an integral piece (like the riser on the right).

(8) Start following the contour edges and make sure the "steps" dissapear, leaving smooth 3D contours in place.
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Old 07-10-2005, 05:57 PM   #12
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Default Home Depot rally-style front lip

Well, I just finished this today. Took me an hour and a half from start to finish. Came out ALOT better than I expected. All materials I found at Home Depot. For some reason I couldnt find the stuff at Lowe's.

Materials:

9 feet of black (or any color) vinyl baseboard trim. Cost me $5.59. This is the same stuff you will find to protect and finish the baseboards in office buildings and other commercial buildings. Its about 4" wide and is curved outwards at the bottom. I ended up with about a foot extra, but I always like to get extra just in case.

Four 1" (25mm) Corner Braces (L-brackets) w/ screws $1.89

Four 2.5" (63mm) Corner Braces (L-brackets) $2.39

One 8-pack of #10-24 x 1/2" flat head slotted machine bolts w/ nuts (come in little green bags) (I bought two just in case) $0.85 ea

Extra sheetmetal screws. ~$1.00

Labor = FREE

Grand total ~$15.00

The process is pretty straightforward. I have two left hands and it came out nicely. Better than expected. All the L-brackets mount under the front bumper/lip. The larger ones face forward and I used the smaller ones around the sides, closer to the wheels. One big one in the center, two more big ones towards the sides, and two little ones all the way at the ends near the wheels. I used the screws that came with the smaller L-brakets to secure the brackets to the botton of the bumper. Then I just started on one side with the baseboard vinyl and attached using the machine nuts and bolts. On each end I used a tiny sheetmetal screw to keep the tension of the material across the front of the car.

There are no gaps. It does cover the two lower brake vents. The way I installed it the front of the car is 3" closer to the grounds. I have no suspension drop but I'm too low to go over parking stops anymore. I dunno bout you but I think i can live with this over a $400 pre-made lip. The brackets come down low in the front so I am not expecting alot of deformation when driving at high speeds, although I am sure there will be some. I plan to add a few more L-brakets behind the vinyl for more support, but I ran out of energy (and brackets) today. Reminds me of the WRC rally lip spoilers. I likey!

Pics:

http://www.imagestation.com/album/pi...?id=2123956915


Last edited by Samirr76; 07-10-2005 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 07-10-2005, 10:05 PM   #13
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Default In case you cant see the pics on imagestation....

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Old 07-10-2005, 10:33 PM   #14
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Interesting. A guy on my old G2 Integra site (g2ic.com) did a very similar thing on his ride and always got compliments on it. With a little tweaking yours could be pretty nice. And cheap.
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Old 07-11-2005, 12:28 AM   #15
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Thanks! I may get some screw caps to cover the bolts, or paint them black. Shiny screws is a little tacky, but I've always been function over form.
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Old 07-11-2005, 01:03 AM   #16
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awesome, someone else has my optilux 1100 setup!



cept my stock front bumper went to hell... but this does look nice, i might do this to my JUN lip to have a bit of warning before i curb it.
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Old 07-11-2005, 08:50 AM   #17
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I plan on relocating the optilux fogs. The tiny projectors in that tiny opening is starting to bug me. I was thinking moving them inwards to the bumper mouth. Maybe get some OEM style or mesh fog covers to cover the holes. Right now the passenger side fog area acts as an air inlet for my DIY CAI.
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:51 PM   #18
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yeah it did look goofy. the black painted fog recess really helps it out. i put some foam in the back in order to close it off. it only looks bad up close

i'm going to make that bumper into an urban assault body armor peice. it's going to be sweet.
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Old 07-11-2005, 06:12 PM   #19
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^^^body armor, sweet! I can use some of that here in NJ!
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Old 07-11-2005, 06:38 PM   #20
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i was kinda joking but what i mean is some plastic gutter guard like satrya did so it doesn't get destroyed from scraping and maybe some other warfare type stuff... black rubber strips like this only without the ridges... or maybe with the ridges...

it's already cracked to hell and i got it because i knew college is hard on a car and i needed a replacement(stock bumper was hurt bad by road debris, had to scrap it or pay lots in labor to get it fixed... found this one for 130 already painted) so i think i'll make it a huge ugly piece of protection.
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Old 07-11-2005, 08:35 PM   #21
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You could get some metal tubes welded together and make a custom bumper outta that
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Old 07-11-2005, 08:47 PM   #22
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yeah maybe i'll just take a page from the offroad book and put an aluminum skidplate on instead of a bumper...
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:32 PM   #23
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honestly, I think it looks like crap. Looks like you went to Home depot, bought some edging and screwed it to your car.... Oh wait, that IS what you did... No wonder it looks like that.
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Old 07-11-2005, 09:49 PM   #24
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There's a little thing called function over form, ranger. if you don't get it, you don't get it.

you're obviously missing out on the whole 'function' aspect. for cars that take beatings, it doesn't make sense to buy a $300 lip when this can do the job. i think it looks pretty much like the SWRT lip does, and i don't really care that you can see the bolts because as he already stated, he's going to get plugs to cover them.

this thread was flame free... i don't know why you decided you had to bring the hate.

IF YOU PUT A LIP ON THE CAR, IT'S GONNA GET TORN UP(unless you drive a carpet queen)... so why not spend $20 on something that is functional and looks cleaner than most high priced lips?

i think my jun bumper is ugly as sin, i didn't buy it for the looks, i bought it because it was used and CHEAP. and i'm going to do this when i have some free time and i'm back at college.
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Old 07-12-2005, 08:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranger5oh
honestly, I think it looks like crap. Looks like you went to Home depot, bought some edging and screwed it to your car.... Oh wait, that IS what you did... No wonder it looks like that.
Well heym you're entitled to you opinion. I really was waiting for someone to start flaming, I was getting kinda worried for a while! Thats ok ranger, its not lawn edging. Function over form was exactly my goal. It reduces underbody airflow and if I break it it wont break the bank! I would rather spend my money on things I CANT make myself, like a bigger turbo, exhaust, or suspension.

I appreciate your feedback

You should see my car in person. Its quite rough around the edges. Dents, dings, scratches, repaints. Like the other guy said, this is no show car
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