Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday April 17, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-25-2004, 11:48 PM   #1
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default Those who upgraded from Cobb stage 2 to stage 2.5

For those who have upgraded from Cobb stage 2 to 2.5 (no upgraded fuel pump or IC), did you notice much difference in lowend or midrange power? Due to rather conservative tuning, I expect power output to be around 235-245whp. Anyone has actual dyno done on stage 2.5 WRX?

Do you think it was worth spending $1200 for that extra power?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 01:29 AM   #2
blackie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 42979
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: houston tx
Vehicle:
03 wrx
blizzzack stage IV

Default

its very worth it i went from 225whp and 225wtq to 272.5whp and 259wtq on the same dyno. my dyno is somewhere on wrxforum.com like 47 extra whp between stage 2 and 2.5! its worth it
blackie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 01:34 AM   #3
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default

hey blackie, are you running on upgraded IC and FP? how's tranny holding up?
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 01:38 AM   #4
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default

Cobb stage 2.5 is everything except upgraded FP and IC.
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 02:30 AM   #5
DickWRX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 60590
Join Date: Apr 2004
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Schaumburg
Default

WHere do you get this map I was at cobbs map download site and they don't have it.

I am runing atage 2 now. Never heard of stage 2.5!

Let me get this right, you can run it on stock turbo with just a turbo back like stage 2.0 ?

I have an 04 with up pipe and TB.

Let me know
Thanks
Rich
DickWRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 03:02 AM   #6
Raslian
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 18801
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Bellevue, WA
Vehicle:
1994 Toyota Supra
Red

Default

No, Cobb stage 2.5 is everything stage 2, plus STi injectors and a VF34/VF30. I think an up-pipe too.
Raslian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 03:03 AM   #7
InfamousDX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 25413
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: North NJ
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by DickWRX
WHere do you get this map I was at cobbs map download site and they don't have it.

I am runing atage 2 now. Never heard of stage 2.5!

Let me get this right, you can run it on stock turbo with just a turbo back like stage 2.0 ?

I have an 04 with up pipe and TB.

Let me know
Thanks
Rich

Stage 2.5 is just what everyone calls it because Cobb hasn't named the VF34 / VF 30 upgrades yet. You cannot run the 2.5 map on the stock turbo.
InfamousDX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 05:10 AM   #8
rossscarbro
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 34627
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Riverside county, Socal!!
Vehicle:
2006 Evo IX GSR
Graphite Grey

Default

I went from Stage 2 to 2.5. I always loved stage 2 and when I first made the switch to 2.5, I was a little dissapointed. However, after a couple of weeks of hard driving, the car seems to have learned and is performing better. Actually, tomorrow morning I will be removing my 3rd cat and go totally catless. This should free things up a bit and I expect to see a little improvement in power and spooling time.

3rd and 4th gears are awesome. I can be doing ~80 in 4th, floor it and I'm at 100 in no time. 1st gear seems to com eand go way too fast.

As expected when you go to a larger turbo, there's more lag. Where stage 2 seemed to kick in around 3200 RPM, now it takes to around 4000 RPM for it to really kick in. And when it does, you really feel it!

The thing is, it's taking some getting used to for me to keep it in that new "sweet spot". I'm pretty sure I saw Blackie's dyno graph (very impressive I may add) and it was very obvious that ~4000 RPM is where the torque really kicks in. So as compared to stage 2, there's more lag but way more top-end pull.

Was it worth $1,200? Yes and no. Yes, because I did it in preparation for Cobb's stage 3 (I'll kill someone if stage 3 does not use a VF30/34!) No, because it's not a huge jump from stage 2....at least not like it was when I went from stock to stage 2!

Oh, I did do an upgraded pump just to be safe. I figured that stage 3 would need it anyway...plus I'd rather run rich than lean.

One other thing about Cobb..... I'm a huge supporter of them. Stage 2 was a dream when I reflashed to it an dI reccomended it to anyone who would listen. But Cobb is treating stage 2.5 like a red headed stepchild... I mean they offered it to folks who kept demanding it, but they always make it clear that it's not an "official" stage. They have never posted the dyno plots for it though they have them, and God knows when stage 3 will come out. From what I gather, Cobb will most likely debut their new TMIC at the same time and the map will probably be based off of it. Everything that I have read states that stage 3 will be a more agressive map and will support the VF30/34. If it does not, I will immediately sell my AccessPORT and go the ECUtek route.
rossscarbro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 11:14 AM   #9
WRC2L
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 62737
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ocean County, NJ
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
WR Blue

Default

I agree.....however I find your feelings on the jump from stage 2 to 2.5 a little disheartening, and it makes me wondering exactly what kind of numbers your putting down....a trip to the dyno maybe a good idea to give you a basis of where your at before stage 3......A lot of people who are impatient for power and have money are going the Ecutek or Utech, or if your rolling in dough, the Vishnu route. Cobb is a bit more conservatively priced, but I feel that they offer a substantially better quality product, they are very behind the market right now.....I have no even gotten to stage 2 yet, mainly because i'm waiting for the closest dealers to me to recieve accessports....if i have to wait two months, it'll still be quicker than waiting for cobb to send one in the mail....i could go off about their customer service and how i feel they are in over their head and need to hire someone who understands e-commerce better. But I won't, lol. Point is, I believe in holding out, because.....I know what its like to have to self tune engine/fuel managment on a turbo car and if you don't have a goood starting point, it takes forever and you may never get it right......i've taken a look at the logs for the base maps for Utech, and they don't look quite right to me.....A/F's are a little scketchy, and change dramatically across rpms, (cobbs graphs they sent me did not show this), and just a few other things about their power curves that didint thrill me. Access Port definately thrills and cant wait to use it.

Like you said I'm pretty confident that Cobb stage 3 by the time it comes out (we're looking at fall at the earliest i believe) will be worth an ungrade. I e-mailed them not long ago and they said to expect stage 3 to include, a revised 2.5 map (so yes, VF34/30) a TMIC, some sort of intake (which i'd be willing to bet will be the nicest one ive ever seen...)....im not sure about an uppipe but i think 99.9% of people going to this stage will already have one or be putting one in at the time (like me). I believe it will just be tuned for use with a catless up-pipe, as there are no performance difference from any brand, or gutted stocker.

blackie said he saw around 272.xx whp on 2.5 map, i think with an uppipe? That would be about 340 HP at the flywheel. That's a 50 HP difference from 2-2.5?! I hope to god he's not FOS because those are some comforting and impressive numbers......what max boost are you hitting, do you have an EGT? if so how do temps look? Ever have any low oil pressure? stock tranny/clutch? It sounds like you are really at this point, you must be
WRC2L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 12:08 PM   #10
blackie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 42979
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: houston tx
Vehicle:
03 wrx
blizzzack stage IV

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by WRXVII
hey blackie, are you running on upgraded IC and FP? how's tranny holding up?
when i dynoed 272whp i still had the stock intercooler. i also had the fuel pump and header too. now i added the hyperflow tmic and it feels really nice . i have a defi egt gauge but everysense i switch to my new header i havent replaced the broken probe, but with stage two i would hit 1550-1600.F while driving hard. i would think they might be abit lower now with the new set up. i threw a wide band on it after the tmic intercooler install and it would hold 10.9-11.0 all the way to redline, so it should be a pretty safe set up. the tranny is fine so far ive had acouple incident were if i shift into 2nd to hard the rear diff makes a clunk sound from all the power, ive had to change up my driving style abit to help keep my tranny happy, i also never really launch the car i just take off fast by sliping it allittle, then when im moving i punch it.
blackie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 12:45 PM   #11
WRC2L
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 62737
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ocean County, NJ
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by blackie
when i dynoed 272whp i still had the stock intercooler. i also had the fuel pump and header too. now i added the hyperflow tmic and it feels really nice . i have a defi egt gauge but everysense i switch to my new header i havent replaced the broken probe, but with stage two i would hit 1550-1600.F while driving hard. i would think they might be abit lower now with the new set up. i threw a wide band on it after the tmic intercooler install and it would hold 10.9-11.0 all the way to redline, so it should be a pretty safe set up. the tranny is fine so far ive had acouple incident were if i shift into 2nd to hard the rear diff makes a clunk sound from all the power, ive had to change up my driving style abit to help keep my tranny happy, i also never really launch the car i just take off fast by sliping it allittle, then when im moving i punch it.




10.9:1 at full throttle/high rpm =

Very safe, IMO....sorry if you disagree but I'm kinda over looking your header because i don't believe them to be a bang for the buck on these cars....hah dont fret the rear diff, if you don't launch alot (which much to your credit you said u dont) you should be fine....wanna talk rear diffs, i have an LT4 Vette motor conversion in my 88 JeepWrangler, and about 3 weeks ago i was driving through a rock quarry, bouncing around, lost grip just at the wrong moment, popped the clutch, threw 350 ftlbs of torque to the rear and snap! the rear diff literally sepearted itself form my vehicle.....its ok, though, drive axles, diffs coming in from an F250 soon
WRC2L is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 10:23 PM   #12
stang-spanker
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 44276
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Maryland
Vehicle:
2004 WRX Wagon
Java Black--COBB Stage II

Default

Quote:
...wanna talk rear diffs, i have an LT4 Vette motor conversion in my 88 JeepWrangler, and about 3 weeks ago i was driving through a rock quarry, bouncing around, lost grip just at the wrong moment, popped the clutch, threw 350 ftlbs of torque to the rear and snap! the rear diff literally sepearted itself form my vehicle.....its ok, though, drive axles, diffs coming in from an F250 soon [/b]
Please tell me you weren't still running the stock Dana35 rear end? I had a Wrangler for over 10 years and with the 4.0 I was always terrified of blowing up the rear with only 31" tires!
stang-spanker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 11:58 PM   #13
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default

Has anyone broken into 12s with stage 2.5? w/o upgraded IC and FP?
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 12:48 AM   #14
trbowrx
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 50770
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: VA
Vehicle:
08 STi
04 536whp STi Sold!

Default

yes some people have been running 12.7 to 12.9s with the stage 2.5 i ran a 12.8 at 106!!
trbowrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 11:15 AM   #15
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default

trbowrx, you ran 12.8 w/o upgraded FP and IC?
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 12:44 PM   #16
Jaxx
NASIOC Supporter
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Boise,Idaho,USA
Vehicle:
The 93 Imp W/EJ20K
flat black

Default

yikes why would you not get a bigger fuel pump
A: it won't affect the map
B: you increased the fuel flow by more than 25%
C: it costs less than a 100 bucks ..
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 01:06 PM   #17
Tex-WReX
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 7107
Join Date: Jun 2001
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Pearland
Vehicle:
2014 Mustang GT
White

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by blackie
when i dynoed 272whp i still had the stock intercooler. i also had the fuel pump and header too. now i added the hyperflow tmic and it feels really nice . i have a defi egt gauge but everysense i switch to my new header i havent replaced the broken probe, but with stage two i would hit 1550-1600.F while driving hard. i would think they might be abit lower now with the new set up. i threw a wide band on it after the tmic intercooler install and it would hold 10.9-11.0 all the way to redline, so it should be a pretty safe set up. the tranny is fine so far ive had acouple incident were if i shift into 2nd to hard the rear diff makes a clunk sound from all the power, ive had to change up my driving style abit to help keep my tranny happy, i also never really launch the car i just take off fast by sliping it allittle, then when im moving i punch it.
Good to see you are still enjoying the car. The hyperflow is a beauty

See you on the road
Tex-WReX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 06:15 PM   #18
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default

I just ordered pinks, FP and picked up a VF30

AP is scheduled to arrive in the next two weeks!
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 07:00 PM   #19
mexicanpizza
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16779
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Oceanside, CA
Vehicle:
2008 God's Gift to
Turbo Wagons (MS3)

Default

blackies graph, stage 2, then 2.5:
mexicanpizza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 07:17 PM   #20
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default

wow.... 272whp with Cobb stage 2.5 setup. What was the psi this dyno was run at? I am assuming ~16.1psi?
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 05:23 PM   #21
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default

what's target psi boost level for stage 2.5?
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 08:45 PM   #22
mexicanpizza
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16779
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Oceanside, CA
Vehicle:
2008 God's Gift to
Turbo Wagons (MS3)

Default

16.5
mexicanpizza is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 08:57 PM   #23
GetSideways
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 44665
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: NY-RI
Vehicle:
03 wrx sedan
platinum

Default

nobody is running numbers near blackie without headers and a FP ....does anyone have any real stage 2.5 dyno figures?
GetSideways is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 09:31 PM   #24
WRXVII
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 15854
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Upstate NY
Vehicle:
2002 WRX
VF34'd...

Default

VF30, FP, pinks, AP are all going into my car next week.....
WRXVII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-01-2004, 10:02 PM   #25
mexicanpizza
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 16779
Join Date: Mar 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Oceanside, CA
Vehicle:
2008 God's Gift to
Turbo Wagons (MS3)

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by GetSideways
nobody is running numbers near blackie without headers and a FP ....does anyone have any real stage 2.5 dyno figures?
If you know what people are running, why do you need dyno numbers?
mexicanpizza is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cobb access port from stage 1 to stage 2 johnnyyrocket420 Newbies & FAQs 9 03-05-2010 08:24 AM
XTM map upgrade from cobb stage 2 base map?? hella_sti AccessPort 0 03-26-2008 10:36 AM
Looking to go from Stage 0 to Stage 2.5...Need Expert Advice jsavage Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 6 08-19-2005 03:00 PM
Has anyone gone from Cobb stage 2 to stage 1? txl146 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 2 03-01-2005 10:49 PM
Difference in prize upgrading from stage 0 to stage 2 WRXPTY Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 2 12-05-2002 10:10 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.