Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday April 24, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-30-2000, 11:26 AM   #1
donjuan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2248
Join Date: Aug 2000
Post New Borla header vs. CE light??

Any more people had the CE light problem with the new Borla header?? Anybody that had the problem before come up with a good fix?? (other than putting tape over the CE light) Anyone ever hear anything from SPO or Trey Cobb?? I like what I hear about the headers, but I don't wanna taunt the CE light...
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
donjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2000, 02:08 PM   #2
tomrichardson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2672
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lakewood, CO USA
Vehicle:
1973 Porsche 914
Porsche Red

Talking

I hope this is figured out soon. I plan on getting the new headers. Don't want to be a CE light boat...

Cheers,
Tom Richardson, Jr.
tomrichardson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2000, 02:32 PM   #3
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Post

I don't recall who posted -- midwest maybe -- that his dealer told him it couldn't be fixed so he put a switch in to turn off ce light as the default code is apparently somewhat benign. However, it isn't green as the problem causes the ecu to call for fuel and my mileage is down 25-30% w ethanol gas. Therefore non compliant..in no small way.

Scott Orem (www.spomotorsports.com) is working on it....perhaps trying smaller borla system to see if it triggers a "ce".

[This message has been edited by Greborb (edited November 30, 2000).]
Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2000, 06:50 PM   #4
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Exclamation

It is a temperature (of exhaust gases) issue (too cold I believe) so Scott's idea of insulating headers and pipes could be the answer or more back pressure and higher exhaust temp (with smaller diam. cat-back system) could be a solution. He's on it and I believe he'll step up to the plate and orchestrate a solution.

Go Scott.

[This message has been edited by Greborb (edited November 30, 2000).]
Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2000, 12:05 AM   #5
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Post

Welcome to this elite and growing group. Trey was inclined to believe it was the front O2 sensor, Carr Subaru concurred, and then said no....lets see how it works with the sti setup they had just installed....we think it might be a bum cat...based on the default code, which they had seen in older models with 80k mi..but no 000 or 01's. If it comes back on it could be the cat, O2's, or the borlas. Scott, at SPO Motorsports, is aware and analyzing...as well as working with SOA, Borla, and Carr Subaru. Scott believes there is the possibility the borlas and ecu might like a 2" pipe better such as the borla pipe and muffler.

Anyway I believe we've got the first team on it. If you want to test Trey's notion go and replace the front O2 sensor and report back to the R&D Committee. If the "team" is divided at all when mine comes on, I'll try the front O2 based on my great respect for Trey's opinion.

This is an unsolved gremlin....come hither "specialists"

[This message has been edited by Greborb (edited November 30, 2000).]
Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2000, 07:55 AM   #6
john seput
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 497
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: somewhere, NJ US
Post

Mines be turning on and off.

Js
john seput is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2000, 08:21 AM   #7
m750
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2278
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pepperell MA
Vehicle:
8Sti | 07 allez
White | Comp

Post

Are any of you guys that are expierencing CE lights running any sort of engine / air fuel management? Thanks
Aaron
m750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2000, 11:55 AM   #8
tomrichardson
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2672
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lakewood, CO USA
Vehicle:
1973 Porsche 914
Porsche Red

Post

Ya, I know a guy running the headers with a S-AFC and he has a CE light...

He said nothing shows up suspicious on the AFC.
tomrichardson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2000, 02:19 PM   #9
m750
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2278
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pepperell MA
Vehicle:
8Sti | 07 allez
White | Comp

Post

Thanks, I was wondering if that would matter. Anyways, Another? Anyone running a egt? Just have to ask - somebody needs to be my guinnie (sp) pig.
Aaron
m750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2000, 03:14 PM   #10
john seput
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 497
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: somewhere, NJ US
Post

I have on order both an A/F and a EGT on order at Rallispec. And Yes I have an AFC.

Right now, the CE light comes and goes..
Maybe be temperature I dont know. I'm getting around 280 to 3/4's of a tank.

Hmmmmm
john seput is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2000, 06:24 PM   #11
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Post

hmnn...lower mpg...too rich....front O2?
Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2000, 12:05 AM   #12
wraithmk3
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1527
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Perth amboy, N.J., U.S.A.
Talking

I have been running my headers for 4 months know without any CE light coming on.(knock on wood) I really could not begin to tell you guys what your problem is. I started with it on and stock exhaust, know I have the headers and a full S.S. dual tip Stromung exhaust. I have a my00 and I do run my car hard at times so it isn't because I'm babying it. The only other thing I did was reset the ecu after addind each part. I always love the way it opens-up with that roar.
wraithmk3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2000, 12:33 AM   #13
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Lightbulb

I don't have a safc but John does. If Wraithmk3 isn't having problems I lean toward Trey's (and they've put borlas on a bunch of cars without any such problems)belief that it's the front O2 sensor.
Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2000, 03:26 PM   #14
john seput
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 497
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: somewhere, NJ US
Post

Unless my 02 sensor has been bad since I got the car, thats been my average mileage.

I spoke to Nativo, who has the older style and he says he has the CE light alos but it goes on and off depending upon his fule level.

Anything from SPO or Trey
john seput is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2000, 04:46 PM   #15
m750
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2278
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Pepperell MA
Vehicle:
8Sti | 07 allez
White | Comp

Post

Aspen posted this regaurding a seperate issue... But it may help keep the temps up.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think people should get some thermotec heat wrap and wrap the up pipes just because everything is so close in that general area.
You can't go wrong with $25 and it does a very effective job and insulating heat. I had some on my headers and actually could touch the headers with my hands after a hard run. I plan on doing this to my turbo up-pipe when I get it done.


------------------------------------------
m750 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2000, 06:13 PM   #16
ImprezaRS dot com
over boosted again
Moderator
 
Member#: 1458
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs CO USA
Vehicle:
2013 B9 Tribeca LTD
2005 Impreza 2.5 RS

Post

I spoke with Braden at www.SubySports.com and he sells Borla systems and confirms that they should be wrapped to keep the temps up or the CE will be more frequent.

Larry www.ImprezaRS.com
ImprezaRS dot com is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2000, 06:22 PM   #17
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Post

Everythings related. Scott Orem, SPO MtrSpts,said he thought wrapping the header and pipe could be a remedy to raise exhaust temp. It's a distinct possibility as my experience today raises questions about the O2 as the culprit. Made a quick run to Seattle for Bike Show in 4-Wheeled motorbike. En route it was piloted by M3 friend who said the car felt more responsive and tracked better than his '99 M3 (his tires/steerg sys. diligently follow the ruts). I've driven his M3 and didn't disagree.

Temp was betw 50 and 60F. For almost 400 miles, we averaged 28.1 driving smooooth from 65-95 avg'g maybe betw. 75-80. Speedometer is spot on with time checks with rubber that's 3+% shorter in circumference!
No "ce" light and no rich running. Like normal. So outside temp was warm and it ran normally.

Scott also theorizes that borla system (header/cat-back are engineered to be together) and a 2" system. He thinks 2.25" is too big with less backpressure, lower temp etc. My setup that thru the ce's was stock midpipe/res (at 2") into a 2.25" stromung. My sti now on is 2.25 all the way.
It may throw the ce when it's in 30's or below. So what we do we insulate the pipes with. Scott's thinkin' about how to do that.
Where are we? Agree? Disagree?

My .$.02 I am a happy camper particularly after portending our group well in freeway interactions with M3 guy considering one to autocross/maybe rally with after he dumps the M! He liked the way it went, and agreed as my mc bud, that it did feel a little bit like an italian v-twin bike...a lil'V-8.

Have a good weekend.

[This message has been edited by Greborb (edited December 02, 2000).]
Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2000, 10:05 AM   #18
john seput
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 497
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: somewhere, NJ US
Post

well i just ordered from summit the thermotec wraps. Hopefully it wont be too cold for me to put this on..

Lets see whats happens, I figure it couldn't hurt.....

Js
john seput is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2000, 09:31 PM   #19
suberboy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1531
Join Date: May 2000
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Vehicle:
2008 GRB
Red

Post

have any of you checked what code the C.E. light is throwing? I am getting an EVAP code each time and it has come on 4-5 times. It comes on after I drive for a few hours straight but not if I'm just driving around town. I also have not been getting great milage. I have Borla headers (2nd gen.) and they have been heat wrapped since I got them. I'm also using the Borla muffler, a highflow intake, and an AFC. Don't know if any of this info is helpful but I hope so.
suberboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2000, 12:43 AM   #20
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Thumbs up

Hey John...good idea. By the way, Trey's experience is limited to TX temps I would guess,which may explain why it's no big deal at those temps/latitudes.

Scott's earlier thought of wrapping was probably right!

PS. Donjuan, KC is just as chilly as NJ or OR isn't it?



[This message has been edited by Greborb (edited December 03, 2000).]
Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2000, 07:28 AM   #21
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Post

Mine threw a "P0420". Carr Subaru's expanation: Catayst System Efficiency below Threshold. Dealer had not seen this code on MY 00&01's.

Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2000, 10:07 AM   #22
Scottie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2080
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: CT
Vehicle:
06 Impreza Wagon
Red

Post

Has anyone looked at the EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) subsystem as being the culprit? I think there is potential for mods such as headers, exhaust, and/or intakes to have adverse effects on this subsystem depending on it's implementation (meaning Subaru's, if the 2.5L even uses EGR). This in turn could lead to other problems resulting in a CE light.



[This message has been edited by Scottie (edited December 06, 2000).]
Scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2000, 01:15 PM   #23
Scottie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2080
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: CT
Vehicle:
06 Impreza Wagon
Red

Post

1)Does anyone know if the 2.5L has EGR? 2)If it does, anyone know if there is a DPS (differential pressure sensor) to sense the pressure differential between the intake and exhaust manifolds? Also, with MY98-99 RSs using MAFs and MY00-01s using MAPs, their implementations of EGR probably differ some. 3)Anyone know how they differ?

4)If there is a DPS, does anyone know where it's located?

5)Anybody know what the limits are of the EGR valve? 6)In stock form, at high loads, is the valve ever close to those limits? 7)In other words, does it ever come close to being fully open 100% of the time(duty cycle) in order to recirculate the required amount of exhaust gas? The reason I'm asking these last few questions is that exhaust and/or intake mods could push it the EGR system beyond those limits. There are two possible reasons for this. One, by reducing pressure in the exhaust manifold and/or increasing pressure in the intake manifold, you will reduce the pressure differential. The pressure differential is what drives the recirculation of exhaust gas back into the intake manifold. If you reduce this pressure differential, then the EGR valve would have to open further and/or longer to recirculate the same amount of gas. Second, the goal of such mods are to increase power. With increased power comes the need to recirculate more exhaust gas. Both of these things combined could push the EGR system to its limits and beyond, resulting in too little exhaust gas to be recirculated. This would mean higher combustion temperatures which would result in increased NOx emissions. These higher NOx emissions could effect catalytic efficiency and thus trigger a CE light.

Of course this is all speculation on my part.


[This message has been edited by Scottie (edited December 06, 2000).]
Scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2000, 12:20 AM   #24
Greborb
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2974
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland, OR SPEC
Post

I agree with Scottie's concept, which puts us into the church.

At this point after talking with Bob T (Carr Subaru) this am, we and Scott think that it would be good idea to wrap the borlas, in this area, as John is doing. I'm going to wait and see as mine is doing fine now. Guinea pig!

Those Carr guys are great. They'll do mods...it eliminates one variable. They did most of mods on Sean's 2.5 Turbo RS. Forward thinking.

[This message has been edited by Greborb (edited December 04, 2000).]
Greborb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2000, 05:24 AM   #25
Scottie
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2080
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: CT
Vehicle:
06 Impreza Wagon
Red

Post

8)In addition to the impact that some mods may have on Exhaust gas recirculation, has anyone looked at Secondary air? 9)Does the 2.5L even use secondary air as part of its' emissions control?

Depending on the mode of operation, I believe secondary air is pumped into either the exhaust manifold, catalytic converter, or intake. To me, the keyword would be pumped. Reducing backpressure in the exhaust system would make the pump's job easier when sending secondary air to the exhaust manifold or converter. If the Secondary air control system can not compensate for such changes in backpressure, then too much air might get sent to either of those two places. Too much secondary air could cause overheating of the Catalytic converter.

Again, this is just speculation based on the little knowledge I have of emissions control systems in general, not Subaru specific. My main point is that mods, that seem as simple and straight forward as say a performance exhaust, have the potential to mess up systems that aren't often talked about on this board.



[This message has been edited by Scottie (edited December 06, 2000).]
Scottie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Impression: Borla header vs. Ported and coated exhaust manifold txl146 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 21 08-22-2006 03:45 PM
Borla header VS. others BuggeyEYED Factory 2.5L Turbo Powertrain 5 03-06-2006 07:55 PM
borla headers vs. stock garretwp Normally Aspirated Powertrain 2 08-24-2003 06:56 PM
New Borla header/SuperTrapp review Rich L Normally Aspirated Powertrain 11 03-01-2001 12:38 AM
ATTN: Anyone with Borla Headers and CE light!!! m750 Normally Aspirated Powertrain 2 02-16-2001 12:20 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:43 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.