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Old 02-07-2001, 11:49 AM   #1
jotarou1
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Question Any CARB legal aftermarket parts for 2.5 RS?

Hello,
I am just wondering if any company was planning to certify their turbo kits for the 2.5 RS especially now that the WRX is coming out? Also are any of the exhausts or intakes that are available CARB certified? I live in CA, and I don't want to have to install all the stock stuff each time I want to pass smog. Granted I don't have to smog my car yet, but what about when I do?

Thanks,

Juan
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Old 02-07-2001, 11:57 AM   #2
8Complex

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Nope, don't think so. There isn't enough quantity to make up for the costs of getting things certified for companies to go out and get certification.
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Old 02-07-2001, 01:11 PM   #3
suby ej25
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as far as exhausts go...i know that the tanabe racing medallion and the apex'i n1 are both carb legal...given that you use the silencers
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Old 02-07-2001, 02:34 PM   #4
Matt Monson
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If you are going to go to the trouble of taking your EJ20 Turbo'd RS before the BAR, then why not go the whole hog...
What am I suggesting? Get a JDM EJ20 and not one from an US WRX. On our premium unleaded these 280ps engines will make about 250hp. That is a fair bit more than the US 227hp.

The referee will not be able to tell the difference between the engines. It could even be from a 98 or 99 WRX and they wouldn't know. As long as you get the triple cat(which can be removed later) and other smog goodies, you can get a BAR certified RS-WRX, as long as you wait until the WRX is here. How do I know this will work?
Because in the Honda world, we have been passing JDM B16's off as US B16's out of 92 Del Sol's for years.
Just food for thought if you want a BAR certified, street "legal" WRX in our current body style. You still have to go through the hassles of a ref., as Dave described, but then you have more( and I bet a JDM EJ20 can be had for less than what the swaps out of wrecks will run since there are so many more in Japan).
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Old 02-07-2001, 03:26 PM   #5
cvalle-sd
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The JDM engines are not and will not be legal, at the state or federal level. They were not designed to pass any US emissions, and not coincidentally don't. They run on higher octane gas than we can get and were never made legal. The swap has to be from a newer-year engine that is designated for the US market. I know that a few have successfully made the swap, but I don't know how they got it past inspection. Then again, how many experienced smog refs are going to be able to make heads or tails of EJ engines? Not like they've seen too many - especially WRX lumps.
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Old 02-07-2001, 03:37 PM   #6
Catfish
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Matt is correct in that JDM engine could be used, as long as it had the correct emissions equipment installed. But, that is assuming that the JDM version of the EJ20 turbo will meet US emissions requirements with the addition of the 3 cats now required. It's not taking into consideration that the new EJ20 engine has received CARB approval most likely has internal differences to improve burn and reduce emissions, aside from ancilliary equipment such as 3 CATS, etc....The fuel computer compatibility is another issue, since the fuel maps in the JDM version may not be adequate for US shores.

If it were as easy as getting a JDM EJ20 and just slapping on a set of the newer 3 way cats, then why didn't Subaru do that in the first place? Just something to think about.

That said, the sure fire way to get through this is to just get a US EJ20 and slap it in, assuming it will. Even though there will be a limited number of these from junkyards and such, you may be able to buy a complete engine from Subaru directly. Even if it was $7K for such an item, it's still cheaper than selling your RS and buying a WRX. That might be just enough to wipe the smile off the new cars face.

Dave
'00 Subaru 2.5RS Sedan
'00 VW Passat GLS 4Motion
'72 Datsun 240Z




[This message has been edited by Catfish (edited February 07, 2001).]
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Old 02-07-2001, 03:43 PM   #7
Andrew
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I have been asking Rally Knight alot of questions through email about their turbo kits, and he said they should pass for CARB certification. That is why I'm going to hold out on a turbo and wait for them. I'd rather be pulled over and not be hesitant to pop the hood for a cop. The cop can ask wheres the CARB number and I show it to him. Plus you won't have to worry about passing smog. You can have a legal performance car. Of course, you do pay quite a bit, and they take your car for a minimum of a week to do stuff to it.
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Old 02-07-2001, 03:54 PM   #8
glenstiles
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One thing is that once the CARB certification is in place, and the car has been refereed, you can do all sorts of mods and as long as it passes the sniffer test and the engine compartment appears somewhat factory on the outside, you are golden. The modded 1976 VW rabbit I had was refereed with a 1.8 16v motor out of a 1987 scirocco. Well, whenever I took it to a smog place, they would scratch their heads at that dohc motor sticking in the engine bay, and would be like, uhhh, I don't think this is stock. Point out the CARB sticker that says smog it as a 87 1.8 16v, and that was enough of a distraction and novelty that all they did was make sure it ran clean and that was it. Never mind that it had a race downpipe, euro intake cams, fuel enrichment module, and a 2 liter block. I think the smog place assumes that the car was refereed with that stuff in place. Of course it wasn't, but they don't check on that kinda stuff.

Glen
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Old 02-07-2001, 04:29 PM   #9
Matt Monson
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Cool

I figured I would stir up things a little bit with this. I have done a bit of research on this, primarily on some of the UK Scooby sites where they have been making these swaps for a number of years. That is where i got my reduced HP figure for our gas( on Japanese gas these 280ps engines make 276hp). Japan does have fairly strict emissions standards and I am fairly confident you could pass one of these WRX engines. And as glenstiles mentioned, once you have that magic sticker on your doorjamb, you are pretty much golden.
As for $7000 for a WRX swap? Wow! I guess there might be some money to be made here since I know where to get complete EJ20 swaps(engine,ecu,turbo,trannie,exhaust, and crossmember) for $2000-2500. And something else to keep in mind, we know that a MY00 WRX engine will fit in our chassis, while, as Dave mentioned, we don't know about these new USDM WRX's(but I highly doubt there will be a problem here either). Call me the eternal optimist.
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Old 02-07-2001, 06:57 PM   #10
Digital_Boy
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Jotaru,

My car went down to Temecula to Leading Edge Performance today from Rally Knight's shop. They are going to be installing and tuning the turbo system to the same spec as Rally Knight's CARB pending 300HP kit.

I am having the Motec M4 ECU installed, for future upgradability.

Currently, Rally Knight/Leading Edge have submitted engines to a laboratory in Arizona that is licensed to perform tests for automotive emissions. I presume that GM, Ford, Daimler-Chrysler and so forth utilize such companies to certify their engines as well. They put the engines through the wringer, freezing them overnight, letting them thaw, then testing for cold start emissions, etcetera. I've been in contact with Rally Knight for a while now, and Jon Ryther's feedback from the testing firm is very positive.

Right now, it looks like I might get the car back by mid February, and then I can give more feedback on how the turbo system works.

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Old 02-07-2001, 07:09 PM   #11
Lix
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Does Rally Knight have a web site?
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Old 02-07-2001, 10:56 PM   #12
Digital_Boy
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Lix,

They've hired a webdesigner to put together a page, but it's still a work in progress. Ie, not yet.
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Old 02-08-2001, 12:18 AM   #13
Matt Monson
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A while ago a rumour wen through here that somebody was working on a CARB legal turbo kit. I forget who, but a search using CARB as your key word should dig it up.
As for other parts like intake and exhaust, while they are not CARB legal, smog techs rarely care as long as it passes the sniffer. I have never heard of a smog tech failing someone on a non-turbo visual.But I do think Weapon R has or is certifying their intake.
It is only the cop who might pull you over that will want CARB cert #'s. And they are usually such dicks that they will write the ticket and make you bring the papers to the judge. Your fine gets dismissed, but you still pay court fees and lose a day of work/life. The trick, just don't get pulled over acting like a fool. They won't usually mess with you for an 80-90mph speeding ticket. But a ticket for dragging or cruising residential neighborhoods setting off car alarms will get you hassled.
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Old 02-08-2001, 12:45 AM   #14
deepbeep
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that would be AMR at http://www.carmodifications.com/

I've been asking them about CARB on and off, but since they don't have their kits ready yet, and seem to be quite delayed on them, I wouldn't hold my breath for certification. I still think that upgrading the engine to a WRX one once the new ones start getting wrecked is a valid option. AFAIK, you can legally swap engines between cars of the same model, as long as the replacement engine is newer. Impreza WRX engine in Impreza RS body should therefore be legal, right?

dave.
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Old 02-08-2001, 12:56 AM   #15
Julian
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Deepbeep, correct, with the addition that the car will now have to be certified against the smog regs of the year of the newer engine you transplanted.

Julian
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Old 02-08-2001, 12:57 AM   #16
Catfish
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I heard a rumor that RallyKnight is attempting some sort of forced induction system that may be legal, but I don't know for sure. It can be a costly and annoying process to get CARB certification, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

Besides, with the WRX hitting our shores finally, I seriously doubt there will be any further attempts at creating smog legal turbo-kits for the 2.5RS. It's much easier to sell a turbokit for a car that's already turbocharged, rather than try and get certification to install a turbo on a non-turbocharged car.

That said, deepbeep is correct. In CA, you can swap a newer engine into an older car and be 100% smog legal. The catch is that you also need to transfer all the emissions related equipment as well, which includes all 3 cats, etc...Also, once you do this, you have to go to a smog referee to get a new sticker for your car, stating that it now has a '02 or whatever turbocharged EJ20 in it instead of thes stock unit. It's not as simple as just installing it and getting it smogged at a local station. To be legal, the referee must sign it off in the first place. Then, you are held to the emission standards of that year engine.

Since the new WRX has a EJ series engine, it's probably a pretty safe bet that it will bolt into our cars. Whether our transmission is compatible remains to be seen. Swapping the entire WRX drivetrain would be a little difficult however, due to the increased track width and since they strecthed the overall design. That stuff will most likely not bolt up. But, it all remains to be seen.

Personally, if the US WRX EJ20 fits, that's exactly what I'm doing. I'd love to turbocharge the EJ25 due to the larger displacement, but if it's not legal, it's not for me. I've been hassled way too many times when I was younger for crap like that, and I've had more than my fill.

Dave
'00 Subaru 2.5RS Sedan
'00 VW Passat GLS 4Motion
'72 Datsun 240z

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Old 02-08-2001, 01:00 AM   #17
Lix
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Thanks for the 411 Digital Boy.
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Old 02-08-2001, 09:04 AM   #18
Catfish
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Just to clarify...

I agree with Matt, Japan does have fairly strict emissions. But, we still don't know for sure whether they will or will not pass. It's a little too much of a gamble for me to spend a few thousand dollars, and then not be able to drive the car.

As far as the $7000 figure, I just threw that out there because that's the price difference between a RS($18K) and WRX($25K). All I was trying to say there was that even if the swap cost upwards of $7K (which I totally doubt), you basically get a WRX which we should have been able to buy last year. Impressive as the performance numbers may be, I just can't see myself driving one of those things. I'll hold final judgement until I see it in person, but for now, all my efforts are focused on finding a suitable alternative by fitting my RS with forced induction. Whether through a CARB legal kit for the EJ25 or an USDM WRX swap remains to be seen however.

And, like Glenstiles mentioned, once you get that sticker, you're pretty much golden.

Dave
'00 Subaru 2.5RS Sedan
'00 VW Passat GLS 4Motion
'72 Datsun 240Z
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Old 02-08-2001, 06:47 PM   #19
BRN2RLY
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Or you can smog your cars the easy way. Go to a mechanic. Ask him where you can "smog" your car. Go to the place, give the guy 100 bucks, and get your car smoged. My friend with an 89 5.0 mustang did this(no cats,x pipe, and an old engine.They smoged a station wagon instead of his car. It is easy to find a place like this to get your car smoged at. Just an easy answer to a difficult question if you wanna go the even more ilegal route.
DAVE
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Old 02-08-2001, 06:57 PM   #20
Andrew
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Dave, that is what I was gonna do is get my car "smoged." The only problem with that is if you get pulled over, your screwed. Theyll take one look at the turbo and say "CARB number please." My friend with an MR2 gets pulled over alot for not even doing anything. When he was at some races a cop came by and wanted to check under his hood. He wasn't doing anything. When he saw the Blitz filter (i think it was blitz) he asked for a CARB certificate and he didnt have one. So he had to go to court (they made him) and some other BS.
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