Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday September 18, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-12-2001, 10:20 AM   #1
Subie Gal
GC84Ever
Super Moderator
 
Member#: 301
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
1970 FF-1 & '70 Van
02 WRX/01 RS

Exclamation cobb intake questions

while we're on the subject...
i helped install one on a pals RS last week...

can anyone tell me how this benefits the car?

i mean based on the design all i am seeing is a fancy 'stock' set up... where is the power gain coming from?

cold air goes in a tube... into filter... into throttle body.. um... just like stock right???

and the tube doesn't even fit in the side wall properly. the connector is too small and the intake rattles and bounces in there...

what's the deal with that??

at least the Ganz-flow fits TIGHTLY into the side wall....

coming from someone who ran an open air (weapon R ) intake - can you please explain or make me believe that this is more than a fancy intake/air silencer??

because from my eyes it does the same thing the stock plastic set up does... silences the air.. into the filter... blah... blah...

what about the low end? with the Weapon R open air intake, i lost a bit of low end.. will this/does this do the same??

convince me!!
it's a pretty set up and i need an intake!!

j.
www.subiegal.com
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Subie Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:31 AM   #2
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

Well Subie Gal the intake benefits the car by grabing cold air into the engine. I removed the lower passenger bumper vent so air can be grabbed through it. Its inline filter is less restrictive than the stock intake. Smoother plumbing lines than the stock intake.

How can you call it a "fancy stock setup" It is quite different. Power gains, read up above. Its not very complicated. Colded Air is less dense.

Cold air comes in from vender well, goes through inline filter, then runs through the rest of the piping into the throttle body. Yes similar to a stock intake but think about the FILTER, the NEW DESIGN, the COLD AIR, i mean what else do you want an intake to do?

The tube doesnt fit into the side wall? Umm yea it does. Are you guys sure you put the piece on right? I have no rattling and the piece fits perfectly.

The Cobb Air is a definite step up from the GANZFLOW intake.

The COBB Air intake is different from the Weapon R because it gathers COLD air from the fender. It does have a filter gathering air in directly from the engine!

THIS IS MUCH DIFFERENT THEN THE STOCK INTAKE! How are you not seeing that?

THe low end is a little below the ganzflow intake, because of the remomved stock intake box. BUT THE MIDRANGE AND HIGH END are MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH BETTER. It is HONESLTY night and day. I am extremely pleased.

Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:31 AM   #3
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:39 AM   #4
J Colman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1259
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Ashburn, VA
Vehicle:
1999 Impreza RS
Rally Blue Pearl

Talking

I installed a Pipercross panel filter in my 99 and took the silencer out, the rest of the intake setup is stock apart from a Subaru gasket in the second filter box. I also run with a S-AFC, Unorthodox pulley, and Remus muffler. I dynoed my car last summer on an all wheel Dynojet and it made 129.7HP at the wheels and 145lbs of torque. I think a lot of these fancy intake kits are a waste of money, just my 2 cents. The panel filter was $50 and the rest of the work I did myself.

Justin

[This message has been edited by J Colman (edited February 12, 2001).]
J Colman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:44 AM   #5
Subie Gal
GC84Ever
Super Moderator
 
Member#: 301
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
1970 FF-1 & '70 Van
02 WRX/01 RS

Question

thanks for you reply... really!!!

hehehe i know cold air is a good thing.. i am no newbie... but still...

????
isnt it just sucking the air in... just like the stock set up altho a bit less restrictive?

runnin it through a slightly different filter??

i ran my weapon r for 2 years...
*low end sucked...
*lotsa noise from the engine...
*top end there was a little difference...
but not this MAJOR HP gains you all go on about...

i just dont wanna fork out $250 for something 'pretty' - thanks for the link i read your review matt good info there!!

j.
Subie Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:46 AM   #6
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

Yes it is like a stock intake, it sucks air in..BUT THAT IS WHAT AN INTAKE DOES!

hehe, im not sure what else you could really do...
But the much less restrictive is a big deal...as well as the cooler air. Larry i believe said like a 10 degree drop in temp is good for 6 hp..I know that is just a base statement but it does have some worth.

And please please do not compare this to a Weapon R One is a cold air intake, one is not.

matt

EDIT: Oh and btw, im not talking about MAJOR hp gains..but the car is much much better in the higher ends...I really would not want to lose this intake


[This message has been edited by Swivel1000 (edited February 12, 2001).]
Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:50 AM   #7
donjuan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2248
Join Date: Aug 2000
Post

Most fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen, not fish.

[This message has been edited by donjuan (edited February 12, 2001).]
donjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:51 AM   #8
Subie Gal
GC84Ever
Super Moderator
 
Member#: 301
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
1970 FF-1 & '70 Van
02 WRX/01 RS

Question

cool matt!! thanks...

i am just trying to justify to myself... the cost of this intake... as it seems to be a nice set up... definately a looker...

just wondering how it truly performs...

i am sure if you remove all that intake crap and slap a K&N on the throttle body, you'd have better gains than any intake out there...

what's ya thought on that??

j.
Subie Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:54 AM   #9
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

I understand, im trying to be objective.

BUT IN NO WAY WOULD THAT BE THE BEST INTAKE. If you simply slapped a k & n in the throttle body,
#1 what kind of air temps do you think you would be pullin in? Last time i checked engines give off a fair amount of heat, heat that your throttle body will be sucking up.

#2, no piping = no air velocity. another much needed part of air intakes on n/a vehicles.

#3, piping/airboxes store air, so without them you would lose density. a loss of density = loss of low end power as well as power throughout the whole band.

Anyone agree/disagree?
matt
Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:56 AM   #10
Subie Gal
GC84Ever
Super Moderator
 
Member#: 301
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: WA
Vehicle:
1970 FF-1 & '70 Van
02 WRX/01 RS

Wink

huh... how about removing the heat shield off the poser hood scoop and placing a 'box' about the K&N to create a sort of... vent...

to help bring in cold air...

i am not trying to get a rise out of u... i am just trying to set my car up and i want the best i can get...

j.
Subie Gal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:56 AM   #11
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

If you guys dont think this is the best setup out there then dont buy it!
I just know that i have tried a bunch of setups and have liked this the very BEST.

It is good looking, but that is hardly the reason i purchased it.

matt

ps: give cobb tuning some credit. They are pretty much the best in the business here in the US.
Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 10:59 AM   #12
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

Subie Gal, well I think it would bring in SOME cold air, but you would still be gathering heat off of the engine. And you would still have issue #2 and #3 to deal with

i know you arent getting a rise out of me, i dont mean to sound like im mad or anything. Im just trying to explain as best as i can. Thats all, then again, someone will probably jump in with some info i was clueless about so its all in good fun
matt
Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 11:00 AM   #13
donjuan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2248
Join Date: Aug 2000
Post

Quote:
#3, piping/airboxes store air, so without them you would lose density.
???????????????????????
donjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 11:01 AM   #14
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

Its simple. Larger diameter piping, as well as the stock airbox, STORE AIR. They act as an air reservior. We have discussed this MANY MANY times in the past.

matt
Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 11:03 AM   #15
donjuan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2248
Join Date: Aug 2000
Post

Airbox = "Dense" Air??

Show me some numbers on that one...
donjuan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 11:12 AM   #16
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

Right here http://www.i-club.com/ubb-files/Foru...ML/000077.html

Look at Matt's post, about the fourth one down. He is using a k&n attached to the TB.

Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 11:18 AM   #17
subapooh
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 892
Join Date: Feb 2000
Post

Simple answer: Call Trey and ask him directly, 972 77 11 555
subapooh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 11:28 AM   #18
johnfelstead
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 856
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Hampshire, England, UK
Vehicle:
2005 JDM STi
Black

Have a Nice Day?

Interesting thread guys.

I am always amused by the question about intake design and aftermarket cone filters etc.

If you take a look at a standard air feed box you will see some resonance chambers, they look like sausages LOL Big tubes closed off at the ends.

What these are for is to help improve the air flow harmonics in the inlet. Most people dont realise this but the air does not just flow in one direction, it actually is flowing in and out pulsing with the rate of the pistons. When you start using wild cams this becomes very pronounced and if on a dyno you can see the airflow creating a slight fuel vapour haze just above the intake if you are on throttle boddies for example.

Now, what these resonance chambers are for is to improve the throttle response at the low end and increase the torque.

When you fit an aftermarket inlet system you are removing a few $1,000,000 worth of design and research in order to gain a couple of BHP at the top end.

The stock inlet is slightly restrictive when you are using the top rev range, but it gives great torque at the bottom end, which is where your engine lives 90% of the time.

On the cone type air filter issue, i hate these things because they sit in the hot air of the engine bay and loose you power accross the rev range, i will never understand how these things got such a following because they suck (hot air ).

You guys take a look at a groupA Rally car, they use the stock airbox design and utilise a quality panel filter like a K&N, this makes sure you are sucking cold air into the engine. The K&N filter is great for giving max airflow, but what it really excells at is keeping that airflow rate as time goes by and a conventional filter would start to clog. This is due to the unusual design of the filtering, its very clever and not easy to explain.

On my own N/A Impreza i use the stock system with a quality filter as i like to have a good bottom end torque.

On the GroupA rally car i run, i use a stock airbox before the turbo with a K&N filter, the only mod required to the airbox is to increase the inlet diameter and pipe cold air to it from the front of the car. (this has a water deflector infront of it so if we go through a water splash it doesnt injest water and hydrolock the engine.)

On my track day turbocharged car i use a cone filter that sits external to the engine bay in a chamber that is fed by a naca duct from the front of the car, i would be happy to use a stock type airbox for this too, but there just isnt the room under the hood for that.

I hope some of this info gets you thinking a little. We all have our opinions on whats best, but if you are looking for a very drivable car the stock system with a decent panel filter is excellent.
johnfelstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 11:54 AM   #19
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

Well i agree that if you are not racing and trying to utilize all the cars hp, then do not remove the stock box. 90% of everday driving would not utilitze a new intake.

But then again, what is your interest in changin the stock intake if you are not racing/improving times?

As far as the cone filter collecting hot air, only if it is not set down where cold air is coming in at. IE Weapon R intake...it is too close to the engine. The cobb filter lies right next too the fender wall.
Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 01:44 PM   #20
Andre Vandenberg
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 501
Join Date: Nov 1999
Chapter/Region: International
Location: Krum TEXAS
Vehicle:
1998 2.? RS Turbo ;)
RBP

Post

Jeez, I hope the chickens and all the other birds had a good grip on their perches when you fired THAT beast up....
Andre Vandenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 01:50 PM   #21
KITTbri
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2748
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Atlanta, Ga
Vehicle:
1992 WHT SE-Rw/stuff
2.5RS & '01 Mazda MP3

Post

about the poser hood scoop. yes, it doesn't cool an intercooler but it still functions to a degree on the airbox on top of the TB. thereby cooling the housing itself and the air inside, not to any significant degree, but it does not hurt or detract from performance. i run with mine out and notice overall engine temp to be (butt dyno) down about 3-5% on any given day.

again no substantial gain in performance but most important no loss either.
KITTbri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 01:51 PM   #22
cj917
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 627
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: boston
Vehicle:
MY96 outback wagon

Post

Swivel1000,

same questoin: "Airbox = 'Dense' Air??"

i dont see any mention of "dense air" in that post

i'll say it again: unless i see some dyno charts and numbers in front of me, and was told of the testing method, i'm not gonna believe one intake is better than the other simply by "looking" at its design

granted i'll probably end up getting a CobbTuning intake myself just because i belive Trey will do a good job, but, no offense, your opinion sounded pretty subjective there

[edit] regarding horsepower increase with temperature change, it's more like for every 10 deg F drop, you gain ~1%

don't believe me? go here then

[This message has been edited by cj917 (edited February 12, 2001).]
cj917 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 02:14 PM   #23
Ashmason
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1224
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca, USA
Vehicle:
2000 OBS
Silverthorne

Post

Wow, some pretty heated stuff here!

Suby Gal, 8 Complex has an interesting intake design using the hood scoop. Check that out.

As for stock plumbing vs piping? Well, I have to say it could be true to certain extent. I am running an Amsoil filter with just the silencer box removed from the Stock intake. It pulls just fine. Harmonics and effect on airflow? Not sure, all I can say is it feels slower with the intake silencer box on.

So what do I think? Nobody yet has mentioned the ramming effect of the fender intake. By opening up the vent in the front bumper, you should be feeding the fender enough air to get a light pressure build up which pushes more air into the intake.

So Ganzflow or Cobb? The Ganzflow is probably doing a good job at getting the cold slightly pressurized air into the throttle intake. By all the rave reviews, it must be! The difference is all in the location of the filter. With the stock filter box, the engine has to suck air through a filter thats close to it, so at the top end, it's probably not getting enough, even with the ramming effect. The Cobb intake has a bigger reserve cause the filter is further away. On top of this, to me it seems that ramming air into a chamber (stock filter box) can not be as effective as ramming air directly into the throttle body for top end gains.

None of this is based on any technical knowledge whatsoever. Just logic (hey I am a computer programmer)

If I was scrimping and saving, I would get a drop in panel, then the Ganzflow when I could afford the upgrade. Money to burn? Then the Cobb has to be the winner. Slighly concerned about the poor fit you mentioned though. Maybe it wasn't fitted correctly?

I only have a drop in filter cause there wasn't a decent system in early 2000, but plan to upgrade soon to the Cobb. Besides, both Ganz and Cobb are so good looking
Ashmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 02:17 PM   #24
Ashmason
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1224
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Redondo Beach, Ca, USA
Vehicle:
2000 OBS
Silverthorne

Post

Forgot to mention. If you want quiet power, get a Merc or a Jag.

Hearing that intake roar is always worth a few HP, real or imaginary who cares as long as it puts a smile on your face.
Ashmason is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2001, 03:39 PM   #25
Swivel1000
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1168
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Vehicle:
2004 Jeep Grand
Cherokee Limited 4x4

Post

Ughn call trey.

You cant exactly dyno a cold air intake. It doesnt allow for the utilization of cold air! Just like you cant really dyno a ram air intake either.

matt
Swivel1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS/FT : COBB Intake, less than 300 miles Project Blackhawk Engine/Power/Exhaust 0 06-01-2010 06:03 PM
Cobb intake - question about conical filter JLow03 Legacy Forum 12 01-23-2006 07:11 PM
Cobb air intake question? BigSlick Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 6 12-12-2005 09:25 AM
Question about the Cobb Intake paul25RS Normally Aspirated Powertrain 14 11-13-2003 12:07 PM
Cobb Tuning Intake question imprezzed Normally Aspirated Powertrain 5 01-26-2003 04:38 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.