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Old 02-05-2001, 03:51 PM   #1
stimpy
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Post More Cobb Cams Installed

Well I finally received my Cobb Tuning "Street" cams in time for the weekend, so naturally, I installed them. Total install time was about 16 hours with two people (me and a friend). We did NOT use airtools and neither one of us had installed cams before. The install time was inflated by a couple hours because I was installing a legacy turbo waterpump in preperation for my legacy turbo install.

The install instructions are very straight forward except that some of the bolts cannot be tightened down in the order listed (ie: camsprocket bolts weren't torqued until AFTER the timing belt was completely installed).

The overall install is fairly easy except for a few issues I encountered. First of all, those camshaft caps are a B**CH to get off. The factory liquid gasket had to be cut almost all the way around with razor blades before it would release. It probably took us 2.5 hours just removing the camshaft caps.

Next up on the list would be the lack of a Torx 40 Plus bit and camshaft oil seals. Trey was having issues with the machine shop getting these cams cut, so I ended up waiting for the cams a couple weeks longer than he had indicated. Trey was very apologetic and once they did get into his hands, he fired them off to me with overnight delivery . I was very thankful for this, but in the rush, he neglected to add the Torx 40 Plus bit and new camshaft oil seals. I confirmed that my oil seals would be ok to use since my car only has 15k miles on it, but I didn't notice the Torx bit was missing until I had the engine torn down to the camshaft caps. Since I already had the engine torn down, I decided to try the Torx 40 bit. What I found is that the Torx 40 bit will work on a low mileage car. I do not think my car had a long enough time to sieze the bolts into the head, so I wasn't at risk of striping out the bolts because of an incorrectly sized tool. I would still recommend using the Torx 40 Plus however. I wouldn't recommend trying the Torx 40 bit unless you feel comfortable tearing off the heads to pull a stripped bolt.

Last fun thing I experienced on the install was the valves. Setting the valve lash on the flat four is a two person, time consuming job. The intake valves can be set from above the car, but the exhaust valves are set from below the car. Because of the tight quarters, it doesn't seem very possible to set the valve lash solo.

Overall, the install is not that difficult. The instructions are good and all it takes is a little common sense and you will get through the install ok. The instructions on setting valve lash aren't detailed at all, so that is something you should know how to do. Would I attempt to do this install again? Sure thing. I will probably help a friend do this to his EJ25 in the next couple months. Install time without air tools is probably going to run about 6-8 hours. I honestly don't think that air tools are going to save more than 1-2 hours on the overall install time. I do not think they are required to do this install.

Enough of the install... how do they feel? Well they are incredible. They totally change the feel of how the power is delivered. I noticed no loss in power anywhere, only good things. The low end now feels weak because of how reinforced the high end is. I have an iSR intake and a custom 2.25" custom catback with an Apex'i N1 na exhaust and these cams compliment those mods very well. Before the install, it seemed that my car just ran out of oomph at about 5k rpm (granted it still pulled all the way up, just not as hard). With these cams, it still pulls like it did before up to 4.5k rpm, only a little more reinforced, and then it just takes off. It feels like the motor is just finally getting going once the redline kicks in. I think with these breathing mods, a higher redline is justifiable, as its still making good power up there.

I don't have any solid numbers on performance gain, and I probably never will, but my car will now push you back into the seat when accelerating. They are well worth my money. Kudos to Trey for his R&D and thanks to Spazz41 for his assistance on the install.

I have to say, the 15min break in period was probably the longest 15min wait I have ever had.

-Jon
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Old 02-05-2001, 04:16 PM   #2
Fred Fredburger
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Stimpy> Awesome to hear about them. I've tossed around the idea of getting them because it seems like eventually, if I don't want to turbo, I'll hit a brick wall of mods, but Cobb seems to have increased the options with cams, heads, etc.

Couple questions: You mention that there were no instructions on setting the valve lash. 1) What does setting the valve lash do? 2) If you should know how to do this ahead of time, is it something I can read about or find someone that tears apart engines to help?

Thanks!

Geoff
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Old 02-05-2001, 05:09 PM   #3
stimpy
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Setting valve lash is the process of setting the tolerances between the valve and the valve tappets (ends of rocker arms). It is basically adjusting how far the valves are pushed into the combustion chamber. The greater the slop between the tappet and the valve, the smaller distance the valve is pushed into the combustion chamber and less power is produced. Since the cam changes the points where the roller rocker is activated, it is necessary to re-set the valve lash.

I learned how to set the valve lash through a friend that knows engines. He showed me on a volkswagen bus motor, which is almost identical to the EJ25. Honda motors also have the same valve lash adjustment setup. I think my Haynes Legacy manual probably says how to set the vavle lash, but it always helps to have someone show you, since it takes a couple times to get it right.

-Jon
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Old 02-05-2001, 05:17 PM   #4
ColinL
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Congrats on the install!
Quote:
Since I already had the engine torn down, I decided to try the Torx 40 bit. What I found is that the Torx 40 bit will work on a low mileage car. I do not think my car had a long enough time to sieze the bolts into the head, so I wasn't at risk of striping out the bolts because of an incorrectly sized tool. I would still recommend using the Torx 40 Plus however. I wouldn't recommend trying the Torx 40 bit unless you feel comfortable tearing off the heads to pull a stripped bolt.
Been there, done that. Initially I thought the TP40 bolts were threadlocked, but what I later realized is that on some of them the liquid gasket from the camshaft cap had gotten into the threads and formed a cute little threadlock. Additionally the bolts on the exhaust side, especially the middle and back ones, are very difficult to remove because of the heat. I'm glad you had luck using a standard Torx 40 bit, since I 3 bolts partially stripped when I tried it.

On the valve lash a lift will really help on the exhaust side, and on the bright side if someone does end up yanking the heads (like me) then it's easy to set the lash if you have 'em sitting on your workbench. They'll still wear in and require resetting again though, so there's no way around it. Besides, things get really interesting once you decide to pull the heads.

I agree on the power above 4000 rpm... it's lots of fun.
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Old 02-05-2001, 05:20 PM   #5
pimpomtic
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DUDE I can't thatnk you enough. Just for the fact that I want to do the same thing but I was wandering about the install and the time. I never did cams before And I wanted to do them. But know that I know what to expect It should be a little easier..
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Old 02-05-2001, 06:56 PM   #6
Overtime
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I'm not real experienced with breaking down my engine, so I'll just say that I'm glad you got them un-nicked and installed them in one (many) piece(s).

I don't suppose anyone has done any testing yet? IE before/after 1/4 or 0-60? I would be interested to see the numerical difference as compared with stock, the Stage 1 cams, and the Stage 2 cams.
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Old 02-06-2001, 12:35 PM   #7
LostAngel
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I've been debating getting these cams as well and was wondering about the install time. Thank you so much for posting this.

On another note now that I'm warned of the time and am not as scared of the install anymore, does anyone know if once you have upgraded your cams if you can still go turbo, or will that hurt the engine in anyway? I'm eventually going to go turbo, but I wanted to stay N/A as long as possible. Any suggestions on this? Or should I go directly to turbo?
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Old 02-07-2001, 01:16 AM   #8
stimpy
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This set of "mild street cams" was in preperation for my turbo install. I will be installing a legacy turbo setup in the next 2 months and I am setting my car up to get the most power out of a small amount of boost. Trey said that these cams will be good up to about 10psi of boost. I plan on only running 5-7psi, so I should be good to go. The cam design is simply enhancing the stock profile; not going hard NA or hard turbo cam. It is just a mild, universal cam profile. But oh god does it make a nice difference
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Old 02-08-2001, 01:50 AM   #9
dcoty
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oops oops oops, i put a post up two minutes ago about this, i looked for any cam post but i missed this! Sorry everyone, dont mean to be redundant. Anyway thanks for posting this, it will help me a lot. I have made my descision on getting the cams now too.
Dan Coty
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