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Old 07-05-2004, 07:35 PM   #1
ChAi
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Default help my car is runing very HOT

Is it normal to have

Coolent at 100+C
EGT at 880C
oil temp 120 c

with only .3 bar boost on the highway at around 4-6k rpm.

what should i do? do i need a new Radiator and oil cooler.

PS. i'm in seattle at 65-75F today
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Last edited by ChAi; 07-05-2004 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 07-05-2004, 07:42 PM   #2
Unsung Boxer
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ok man, ur gonna have to convert to Farenheit if u want any help
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Old 07-05-2004, 07:44 PM   #3
Unsung Boxer
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Default Re: help my car is runing very HOT

Quote:
Originally posted by ChAi
Is it normal to have
Coolent at 98+C = 208F
EGT at 880C = 1616
oil temp 120 c = 248
ok, i did it for you.

208 is normal operation temperature for the Cooling system. The fan should kick on at 210 or so.

EGT's are very high, but if you are doing hard pulls on the freeway obviously they are gonna jump. 1600 degress is too hot for your EGT's.

Oil Temp, im not sure how to judge that. I would image its normal, maybe a bit higher, but I would get someone else opinion on that.

-Jake
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Old 07-05-2004, 07:48 PM   #4
ChAi
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thank guy

it just look very scarely to me coz my car never run that hot before i guess caz i'm in seattle
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Old 07-05-2004, 07:59 PM   #5
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its a hot day and your on hot pavement. Make sure your Temp guage isnt reading more than about half. Make sure your radiator is topped off, and the resivior is half full. If your low on Radiator fluid, it will exceed temperature quickly.

-Jake
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:13 PM   #6
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you running at at steady over 1600 on the highway? when are you seeing that temp, if its constant i would be worried.

you either have, not enough fuel, to much fuel, or not enough advance.

Jay
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:38 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by McDade
you running at at steady over 1600 on the highway? when are you seeing that temp, if its constant i would be worried.

you either have, not enough fuel, to much fuel, or not enough advance.

Jay
not enough advance? advancing timing causes predetonation which will raise EGT's. As well as not enough fuel.

The only reason too much fuel would raise EGT's is if the ECU sees an extreme rich condition and advances timing to burn it.

-Jake
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:49 PM   #8
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It depends on when he is seeing those egts.

His profile says he is using a tec so he has control over timing, his stock ecu isnt doing anything if he using a tec.

Jay
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:51 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by McDade
It depends on when he is seeing those egts.

Jay
elaborate please. 1450F is a stoichemetric burn. This will generally happen during cruise. If you are cruising and stomp the gas EGT's will eventually go up some. The cure for this is to Richen it up, and/or retard timing. 4th and 5th gear pulls are notorious for high EGT's.

At any rate, EGT's will always be a result of A/F ratio and Timing.

-Jake
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:54 PM   #10
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If he is crusing at 1600 degrees, someting is wrong. To much fuel, or timing.

you cant look at as if the a stock ecu was making the corrections. The Tec will not make corrections based on fuel trims like a stock ecu.

It will only make corrections based on the map it is running, when weather changes extemely the map will have to be altered to accomodate these changes, the tech cant learn, and the tec cant change the values on its own. It has to be retuned, thats the downside of standalones.

You dont ever really want to see higher than 1550 EGT wise no matter what

Jay
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:57 PM   #11
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again, my argument is that if his EGT's are high, its not likely because of "Too much fuel"

This tends to lower EGT's. Lean burns cause high EGT's.

-Jake
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:58 PM   #12
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Also if your cruising and you get on the gas the egts IMO or from what I have learned, should be going down as more fuel is added to the mixture.

I cruise at 1500, if acclerate in 5th hard the egts drop to around 1400 as fuel is being added.

AFAIK thats what you want. EGTs will climb on hard acceleration, but should never go over 1550 for an extended period of time.

I might be talking out my ass or not be 100 percent correct but I think thats the gist of it, from what I have learned since getting my turbo rs.

Jay
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Old 07-05-2004, 08:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unsung Boxer
again, my argument is that if his EGT's are high, its not likely because of "Too much fuel"

This tends to lower EGT's. Lean burns cause high EGT's.

-Jake
to much fuel can cause high egts as well depending on when there is too much fuel. There is only a certain amount of cooling that fuel can do, after a certain point it doesnt cool the mix anymore.

also .3 bar is very low boost and those egts are very high, I would really like to know when he is seeing those egts though..

Jay

Last edited by munkis; 07-05-2004 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 07-05-2004, 09:16 PM   #14
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having a hard time buying that. Resulting temperature will go down as you add fuel, until you add so much fuel that it foulds the plug and prevents spark, in which case, there will be no burn, and EGT for that cylinder is 0. Residual temperature will be much higher obviously.

Although there are cases where too much fuel will bring up EGT's... The most obvious explanation is a Lean mixture.

-Jake
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Old 07-05-2004, 09:20 PM   #15
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imo that is way too hot for coolant and egt's for highway cruising at 0.3bar . at cruise the thermostat should keep the coolant temp at a steady 170F since that is where it opens up. during lots of stop and go it should so no higher than 205 which is about where the fan kicks in. maybe check/change your thermostat.. could be on its way out.

too much timing retard can cause high egt's as well..
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Old 07-05-2004, 09:21 PM   #16
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ahah Thats what im saying. It all depends on the conditions when he is seeing high egts.

Im not arguing that lean isnt the most prominent cause of high EGTs, because it is

I run high EGTs at WOT, and running very rich...my problem is problem is most likely to much fuel and not enough timing..

Ther are alot of variables.

Jay
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Old 07-05-2004, 09:23 PM   #17
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Also where is your egt probe, If its in the upipe, I would seriously stop driving your car till you can re tune it, cause your gonna melt your motor down...

Jay
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by McDade

It will only make corrections based on the map it is running, when weather changes extemely the map will have to be altered to accomodate these changes, the tech cant learn, and the tec cant change the values on its own. It has to be retuned, thats the downside of standalones.
Accually the TEC3 changes fuel and timing based on coolant and manifold air tempatures both...

And depending on the setup I believe you can even run it in closed loop even in boost with a wideband so it can change values even more on it's own to reach the desired A/F ratio.

It might not be tuned correctly to compensate but it does have the ability to alter the maps to make it run smooth with anything less than ultra extreme swings in weather from when it was initially tuned.

But yeah seems like something is real wrong, seems very hot... What's your maps look like?
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Old 07-05-2004, 10:28 PM   #19
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^^^ didnt know that
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:14 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kotir
Accually the TEC3 changes fuel and timing based on coolant and manifold air tempatures both...

And depending on the setup I believe you can even run it in closed loop even in boost with a wideband so it can change values even more on it's own to reach the desired A/F ratio.

Its got EGO correction. You can control how much you want the tec to control the air/fuel, it will try to get as close to your desired fuel ratio as possible.

<- Has started re-reading the TEC 3 manual. Lots to memorize.
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Old 07-06-2004, 03:46 AM   #21
ChAi
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Default Re: help my car is runing very HOT

Quote:
Originally posted by ChAi
Is it normal to have

Coolent at 100+C
EGT at 880C
oil temp 120 c

with only .3 bar boost on the highway at around 4-6k rpm.

what should i do? do i need a new Radiator and oil cooler.

PS. i'm in seattle at 65-75F today
It during 60-75%TBS and 4-6k rpm. 3rd gear

i think timeing and runing too rich might be my problem.
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Old 07-06-2004, 04:04 AM   #22
ChAi
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Cobb Stage3 engine, TEC3

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oho!! i for got to tell you that my car was useing a new stock head gasket (0.58mm) with cobb stage 3 engine and i blow it after 1200 miles right after I start to run 1.3bar boost. and i was useing the same map with 98RS head gasket (1.52mm). so i should increase timing advance? right? and i have problem with knock on decel around 4000 rpm @ 20-30 kpa i have to keep retarding it now i retard it about 20 degree and it still knock
what wrong with my seting?
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Old 07-06-2004, 05:09 AM   #23
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those oil temps are pretty high for cruising, I would maybe BARELY hit 118 at the end of a track day.
Where is the probe?
Cruising should be about 720-780*c or so (probe spot, gauge used, and Speed dependent)
coolant? I hardly ever see over 98. I saw 100-104 on a 100* day out in vegas...
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Old 07-06-2004, 01:32 PM   #24
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I've noticed my EGT's dropping after going from cruise to WOT. I cruise around 1500 as well. I've seen it drop to as low as 1450 when I get on it and peaking out to 1550 by redline.

I don't know what the timing curve should look like with a setup like the one you have.
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Old 07-06-2004, 07:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by RS_NW
I've noticed my EGT's dropping after going from cruise to WOT. I cruise around 1500 as well. I've seen it drop to as low as 1450 when I get on it and peaking out to 1550 by redline.

I don't know what the timing curve should look like with a setup like the one you have.
Thats pretty much what you want, like I said ive been learning alot and reading alot since I got my turbo RS. This stuff is interesting.

-------

Shouldnt you be advancing on decel? not retarding... I was workin on a car the other day and I was watching the spark advance, and on hard decel, it would advance timing...not retard.

ChAi dial in some more advance at the RPMs you are seeing those temps and see if the EGTs go down...but watch out for knock..Does the tec pick up on knock? or are you using a knocklink etc...

Jay
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