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Old 07-07-2004, 12:00 AM   #1
Timdog1650
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Default Built 2.0L on stock block?

Hi guys, I know I'm a little new here but I moderate on clubwrx. I figured I'd ask this question on Nasioc because a lot of people have recommended me to the expertise of the senior members here (AZScoobie in particular).

I recently ran into some engine trouble on my wrx, possibly blown engine (98xxx miles on stock block, vf23 stage 4), and I am now potentially facing a complete rebuild. If so, I'd like to keep the stock block for cost savings, upgrade to forged internals and possibly a more aggressive valvetrain for an 8k rev limiter. My question is this:

If I wanted to run 20+ psi with a Forced Performance Green or 20g using the 2.0 liter platform, would I be best to pay the extra money and sleeve the block, or could the stock cylinder walls take the heat/pressure? I'd like to be certain that this new engine lasts me a good long time, and from what I've heard, sleeving is a pretty good move, but like I said...$$ is an issue and any extra cash I can save will go towards some headwork or an aggressive valvetrain. Thank you in advance for any advice you can lend, I appreciate everyone's commentary.

~Tim
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Old 07-07-2004, 12:05 AM   #2
V6TurboTA
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Im just qurious about your setup. Was it a turbosx stage 4? was it dyno tuned? If so where? Whats wrong with your stock motor?

I appreciate any input.

~v6
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Old 07-07-2004, 12:31 AM   #3
Timdog1650
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Quote:
Originally posted by V6TurboTA
Im just qurious about your setup. Was it a turbosx stage 4? was it dyno tuned? If so where? Whats wrong with your stock motor?

I appreciate any input.

~v6
The car used to belong to Andy (weasel 555). I was running a vf23 on ~18 lbs of boost, STI top mount intercooler. Prodrive ecu was tuned by xxtuning (I think, not positive at all). As far as what's wrong with my stock motor, I'm not positive yet because it only happened early monday morning, but to sum it up...I heard a weird grinding sound that wasn't coming from the transmission, followed by the sound a wrench makes when it falls down a flight of stairs, and a stalling of the car (doesn't turn over, but it cranks and sounds really really ugly).

When I find out what's exactly wrong I'll have more info, but otherwise right now I'm trying to make up a tentative parts list for a built engine and would like to keep costs down when it comes to the actual block.

~Tim
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:11 AM   #4
V6TurboTA
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Ugh... that doesnt sound good

Thanks for the info.
I hope you get it back together soon.

~v6
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:24 AM   #5
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It will cost you about the same amount of money (if not more) to rebuild the stock WRX motor with better internals as it will to just buy a new EJ22T or EJ25T shortblock at the dealer.

I'd recomend either one of these blocks over a USDM WRX because of the reinforced cylinder walls. The EJ25 is a semi-closed deck and the EJ22T is a fully closed deck. The WRX is an open deck and is weaker than both.

Open:


Semi-closed:


Closed:


The Legacy EJ22T also has oil squirters for cooling and lubricating the bottom of the pistons and cylinder walls. You will also lower your compression ratio with the stock EJ22T and WRX heads to 7.4:1 making for a bit less power off boost. However it can handle quite a bit more boost than the WRX block.

Either will be a great combo with the VF23 and should be able to handle a bigger turbo like a 20G. I'd play it safe and go with forged pistons with the EJ22T if you plan on running a Green. Check out http://axispowerracing.net www.cobbtuning.com www.rallispec.com www.bbs.legacycentral.org www.crawfordperformance.com

That should keep you busy for a while.

Pete
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:49 AM   #6
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Tim. My suggestion for you is to dump the stock motor and to not rebuild it. If I read your post correctly you are telling us you have nearly 100,000 miles on the stock block. Its served its life now throw it out or sell it off. I would personally never consider rebuilding an EJ205 open deck motor when there are V7 and V8 JDM STI short blocks available for a Grand to $1200 in most cases. It depends on mileage and so forth. These blocks are semi closed deck and come with Forged STI rods, and either forged or hyper cast pistons. Some have dual oil gallies on the crank and nife edging.

If you want a stronger motor and are on a budget dont think twice just toss one in.. I have sources for them and you can PM me for a list of people that might have some.

Another option is to use the EJ257 from the US STI. This is what I did when my motor went to motor heaven. I love the trq and I am sure you will too.. These short blocks are semi closed deck and have forged rods and hyper cast pistons. So far they seem pretty strong and they will certainly handle your setup with ease. $1400-$1600 for one of these with Gaskets...

The last option is to buy a V7 or V8 JDM STi long block and toss that in. Your heads are probably fine but the big port JDM heads are real nice... Its a money thing and a possible time frame issue... Find something that fits your budget and go with it.

I would never consider sleeving on a real street car. I have never listened to a sleeved motor that did not piston slap like a bitch or smoke or die early. I know people have said the Magnus motors are smooth and noisless but good luck getting one.. They have some people pissed off right now and its been 5months without motors being shipped..

A JDm STi 2.0 will take all of your 20G or green with ease... It will run like stock, it wont have piston slap and it likely will not burn any oil.. Its a factory motor that happends to be strong...


Cya

Clark
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Old 07-07-2004, 09:18 AM   #7
Timdog1650
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Clark and everyone,

Thanks for the input, seems like going with STi stuf is the most common recommendation, and I'm sure it won't be too hard to find a good price on stuff. I have a really reliable source for engine building fairly close by (Precision Tuning in Brick, NJ) and I'm sure that they'd be able to set me up with something along those lines when I finally make my decision, whether it be to keep the vf23 (and the 22B heritage) or go with something from Forced Performance.

Thanks for the help,


~Tim
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Old 07-07-2004, 09:30 AM   #8
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If you have any ej22 questions... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...highlight=ej22

I would realy get forged pistons if you go ej22 with that low CR ~7.4 to 1 on wrx heads. Dont forget to do the heads while your spending the money...

www.cobbtuning.com
www.axispowerracing.net
www.i-speedusa.com / www.crawfordperformance.com
www.rallispec.com
www.magnusmotorsports.com
www.payntechnologies.com
www.rigoliracing.com.au

Heres the well know builders, if your thinking about going that way talk to them all and see what they can do to meet your goals.

For a green a stock subaru STi block would be best, its not realy that big of a turbo and 400-450hp is fine for a stock subaru block. Over that look to a built one.
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Old 07-07-2004, 09:54 AM   #9
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pm jinxproof99, he sleeved a stock WRX block, went with JE pistons and pauter rods (I think), and dynoed 465 whp with an internally wastegated green.

If I remember correctly, both Phil and Nathan said it was the best sounding "built" motor they had ever heard. Not an ounce of piston slap... and JE pistons are KNOWN for that!

def
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Old 07-07-2004, 09:59 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by dug-e-fresh
pm jinxproof99, he sleeved a stock WRX block, went with JE pistons and pauter rods (I think), and dynoed 465 whp with a internally wastegated green.

If I remember correctly, both Phil and Nathan said it was the best sounding "built" motor they had ever heard. Not an ounce of piston slap... and JE pistons are KNOWN for that!

def
Who was his builder? If you have a great builder miracles can happen... but even then I wouldnt go with JEs.
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Old 07-07-2004, 12:25 PM   #11
Timdog1650
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When I do make up my mind, I'm either going to go with the EJ207 from the JDM STi or the EJ257 from the USDM STi...leaning towards the USDM setup with some headwork and possibly an axis valvetrain.

Thanks for the help guys, but I wanna try to stay away from the EJ22 since it's not from a current production car.

~Tim
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Old 07-07-2004, 12:56 PM   #12
dug-e-fresh
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timdog1650
but I wanna try to stay away from the EJ22 since it's not from a current production car.

~Tim
Why? Autocross rules or something?

def
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:58 PM   #13
bryan carbon
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I've hit 27psi on the dyno with a FP 20G and a stock block.
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:59 PM   #14
Timdog1650
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Quote:
Originally posted by dug-e-fresh
Why? Autocross rules or something?

def

No, I just think I'll get better prices if I go USDM shortblock or JDM shortblock...


Speaking of which, just got the diagnosis about my car. Blown up main bearing, so I absolutely need a new shortblock at the minimum....very interested in the 2.5L setup AZScoobie mentioned, or some sort of JDM 2.0 STi, but regardless I've decided to go with an all forged setup and try to make it as bulletproof as possible for when the bigger turbo comes along (within the next 6 months).

Thanks for the help again guys,

~Tim
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Old 07-07-2004, 02:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timdog1650
No, I just think I'll get better prices if I go USDM shortblock or JDM shortblock...


Any subaru dealer can get you the ej22t... its just like any other stock subaru block. Price should be the same too... at most a 100 or so more for the ej22.
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Old 07-07-2004, 03:09 PM   #16
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Not trying to go OT or anything, but what are you planning for the transmission? Or was that already upgraded with your stage 4 setup?
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Old 07-10-2004, 02:19 AM   #17
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His tranny is a Version 4 STi tranny -- 4.444 final drive mated to an Exedy Organic Clutch/Flywheel
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Old 07-10-2004, 08:39 AM   #18
Timdog1650
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Considering the liklihood that I'll need new heads, does anyone have any recommendationsfor where to find some cheap JDM v7 heads? In addition to this, which would be a better choice for cams...I'm interested in the Jun 264 and 272, but don't want to compromise too much low end.

~Tim
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Old 07-10-2004, 08:59 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timdog1650
No, I just think I'll get better prices if I go USDM shortblock or JDM shortblock...


Speaking of which, just got the diagnosis about my car. Blown up main bearing, so I absolutely need a new shortblock at the minimum....very interested in the 2.5L setup AZScoobie mentioned, or some sort of JDM 2.0 STi, but regardless I've decided to go with an all forged setup and try to make it as bulletproof as possible for when the bigger turbo comes along (within the next 6 months).

Thanks for the help again guys,

~Tim
you should check your turbo. too much crap in oil is not good for the turbo. a bad turbo can then damage you new motor! ch ch check it out!
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