Getting the max power for STS?

8Complex · 10-24-2000, 08:09 AM

Seeing as I may be staying in the class for next year, I'm interested in what everyone has done that is STS legal and gives them a much needed power boost.

So far all I have done is an intake & suspension, but I'm looking for a complete list so I can start a somewhat rough list and estimate a price on the power.

So far for mods in STS I've got:

Intake
Exhaust
CARB legal headers (Borla?)
Underdrive Pulley
Higher octane fuel
Shorten tire height (in effect, reduce gear ratios)
Light wheels

Other then all those, all I can think of is altering the suspension (which I've done, but I haven't maxed out yet... planning a second STS question for the wheel/suspension forum). Any ideas? Is this actually a full list for our cars?

Also has anyone heard of someone reprogramming the ECU for extra power or raised rev limiter? This would be nice but I haven't heard anyone do it without piggybacks.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

omahasubaru · 10-24-2000, 08:17 AM

Shhh... I haven't told anyone this, because I had to try out my car again and make sure, but my Rev limiter is like no-one elses. Everyone I know hits at 6250, but my car doesn't.. It idels at around 600 rpm, and my rev limitier kicks in at about 7100 rpm. Why it is like that I don't know, but those Cobb cams are tempting me just to see how hard it will pull past that 6250 mark. NE1 else out there have a higher rev limiter?? Or know why mine is like this. no-one I've talked to can explain it and well.. I didn't tell the dealer 'cause I was afraid they would take it away from me.

One more thing.. headers are leagal for STS?? Sweet!

Thanks-

ColinL · 10-24-2000, 08:24 AM

Good list, but suspension is going to make a bigger difference than all those parts put together. That said, and since this is the engine forum:

I would wait for the 2001 rulebook before deciding on headers. STS members have petitioned for the explicit allowance of high flow catalysts, which would IMO make the Borla header a bad choice. It takes a hard 90 degree turn to mate with the first stock catalyst. If you were to run aftermarket (straight through) catalysts, you could run 4-2-1 equal length headers like MRT offers. Hopefully a solution will present itself besides ordering from Australia, even though the AUD is at all time lows against the USD.

On the tires, if you really want light I would run 225/50-15 PZeroes ($168 ea, tirerack) on 15x7 Advan RG (est $250 ea, TRi). There aren't many 225/50-15 high performance street tires though, so perhaps a 225/45-16 Pzero or Continental ContiSport would be a better idea, on stock wheels or Advan RG (16x7 > $350 ea) depending on your budget.

ColinL · 10-24-2000, 08:36 AM

Omaha: what you probably have is a stock tachometer that is even less accurate than usual. I highly doubt you are actually revving to 7100rpm.

8Complex · 10-24-2000, 08:46 AM

omahasubaru - You're not the first with this "problem". I've heard of several others, but mainly they ended around 6500. I think you may want to talk to Trey Cobb about that 7100 limit because IIRC he said the valves will start to float around 6800 or so. Of course, what Colin mentioned about the sloppy tach. is possible as well.

Colin - Yeah, I know we aren't allowed to swap out the cat's just yet, but I think they'll have a hard time passing that one since it goes against federal DOT regulations (something about not changing the cat's unless the stock ones go bad is a felony or something..). You're right about the header design though, I highly agree that I don't like it as well.

I also had planned on shortening the tire height, but I'm still unsure on which tires will be best (as I like to drift courses, this is a tough one - no STR for me for sure). Also, I had thought that Volks were lighter then Advans...

Revision · 10-24-2000, 09:28 AM

I see you havn't listed an AFC or ITC. Or were those items now listed for SM only?

8Complex · 10-24-2000, 09:35 AM

Well, they're piggybacks and piggybacks in general are borderline items. It depends on the alignment of the moon and stars as to how they'll rule them. *shrug*

Warp3 · 10-24-2000, 09:43 AM

I don't know if this applies or not, but I'd heard that the 98 2.5RS had a redline of 6500 and the 99+ 2.5RS had a redline of 6250. Now if you have a 99+ then that info is useless to you.

That would be very nice to have full exhaust allowed for Street Touring. I've done no exhaust work yet but if I upgrade the headers and catback, why should I run it through the tiny stock cat if there are other street-legal cats available.

I've also heard there is a push to get motor mounts allowed in Street Touring...I'd like that rule. I want those mounts but I don't want to leave my class without alot more modification (and I don't want to lie about my class either).

Midwayman · 10-24-2000, 09:46 AM

the ecu rule is
Engine management computer or ECU may be altered, but car must meet federal emission standards.

soooooooo even a replacement is okay as long if you can pass a test....
other bits on my list
strut braces
cross drilled rotors
Braided brake lines
brake ducts
relocate battery

Plus what you have, thats about it.

8Complex · 10-24-2000, 09:47 AM

Warp3 - Yeah, the Neon guys are trying to get mounts in because they have to replace theirs about 3 times a year since they keep breaking. I was going to get in on the GB on them until I realized it'd kick me out of STS.

omahasubaru · 10-24-2000, 09:56 AM

Sorry to change subjects on you 8, but I have another question... What can I hook up to my car to see what RPM it is actually running and where it starts to be off at?
BTW I have a MY99.

I should probablly take into the dealership and see what they think, this is probablly a bad thing, 'cause I want a try tach that reads acurate.. hopefully that is all the problem is.

8Complex · 10-24-2000, 10:44 AM

omahasubaru - You could take it to the dealership if you wanted, or you could borrow an accurate tach from someone (aftermarket) and hook it up temporarily. I'm sure if it is off, you can get the dealership to replace/fix it for free.

Chuck · 10-24-2000, 11:01 AM

I have a '98 and RPM's are limited at 6700.

OK.. so if all the cool stuff I have is illegal in STS, what class am I in?

MRT exhaust (The whole shebang)
Intake
Engine/Tranny Mounts
APEX'i AFC
Toyo Proxis F24's
Short Shifter

ColinL · 10-24-2000, 11:10 AM

The engine mounts might be legal, and the exhaust is only illegal if someone protests you. (it has to comply with federal emissions, which it probably does not. oh well.)

Otherwise, you're in Street Modified. You could also be in D Street Prepared. Either requires slicks if you have any aspirations of success, but honestly I don't think it will help much.

RidinLow · 10-24-2000, 11:14 AM

It could help... I'm in DSP (thanks to my driver's seat) & I was within 2-3 seconds of 2 different ACR Neons with R compound tires (or were they slicks... didn't check that closely) last Sunday, & I'm on Nexus street tires.

I'll see how things change when I use my newly acquired A032R's.

What's the difference between SM & DSP? It seems that I should be in STS except for the seat and the AFC... but if the AFC could put me in SM & the seat definitely puts me in DSP, which way does it go?

[This message has been edited by RidinLow (edited October 24, 2000).]

ColinL · 10-24-2000, 01:03 PM

Yep, and it is a damned shame about how I hit that rock just right to damage mine. Both of them, and absolutely nothing else.

stimpy: I expect to get my butt kicked in SM too. That's only weekend fun though, and I like the car a whole lot better after the cam install.

Midwayman · 10-24-2000, 01:04 PM

1 hammer=1 damaged cat. Opps I hit something on the road.

SteveS · 10-24-2000, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Then again, no current SM cars weigh 1800lb.

Unless you are competing in SM in the Philly region. Sean Christie won SM this year in a Civic hatchback which previously competed successfully in CSP (I believe). I'm not sure what work had been done to the car, or if he just jumped into SM for the hell of it. The only car in SM closely competitive with Christie has been the heavily modified Eclipse of Ian McFetridge (sp?).

I don't presume to be as good a driver as either Sean or Ian, but without R compound tires I was lagging (*cough*

*cough*) behind.

8Complex · 10-24-2000, 01:34 PM

How much does a racing harness really help you guys? Personally I am fine with the stock belt as I'm used to driving like that (and I'm a large guy that fits snugly in the seat already).

Also kinda a poll... do you drive one-handed most of the time? I know I do until I'm coming up to big, tight turns. Someone was trying to tell me that I could turn faster with two hands, but I don't understand that as your goal is be smooth, not jaggedly-fast.

stimpy · 10-24-2000, 02:10 PM

While racing a time or two ago, I was strictly racing with one hand (its how I usually drive). I constantly found my car not cornering hard enough. Well it wasn't really the way the car was setup, it was that I was driving one handed and I couldn't rotate my arm any further. A switch to two-handed steering netted me another 1.5 seconds and I didn't find myself pushing to the outside of corners any longer. Only problem with this is that yes, you can wrap your steering wheel around more, but you also have to unwrap your steering further to get it straight again. I now race with two-hands needless to say.

8Complex · 10-24-2000, 02:15 PM

Hmmmmm... see my car is set up full oversteer so in reality I don't use much more then that one hand even on hard turns since I just flick into it and drift through it. The only time I use two hands is when I screw up and need to get back on course. *shrug*

ColinL · 10-24-2000, 02:18 PM

We're getting OT but you're a moderator

so...

I drive with two hands most of the time on the street. When cruising for extended periods on the highway, I drive with only one had on the wheel, right between the two left spokes and I have a dent in the armrest from where my elbow ALWAYS rests.

While autocrossing or otherwise driving spiritedly, I always have my hands at the 9&3 and I don't remove them from the wheel unless I have to.

8Complex · 10-24-2000, 02:22 PM

It may be OT, but I was looking for a good place to post something autoX related on the board, and there was none. I think we need an autoX/rallyX forum.

BTW, over 70mph and I definetly have two hands on the wheel. Gotta really be prepared if you're cruising along at 100+ and have to maneuver quickly (which fortunately has never happened to me and hopefully never will).

DLC · 10-25-2000, 12:08 AM

Here in Utah there are at least 3 guys with AFCs in STS, but one is actually illegal because he's got a CF hood.

He's still faster than everyone by a good second regardless of that 14lbs.

225Pzeros, Advan 17x7.5, Tein and Rallispec have a bit to do with his success.

Oh, and it's a hell of a fun ride in the passenger seat!

ColinL · 10-25-2000, 12:18 AM

Garrick, in DSP there are no competitors with over (WAY over) 300HP. In SM there are.

Then again, no current SM cars weigh 1800lb. For a long while, the winning DSP car has been a Fiat X1/9 but you have a pretty signficant horsepower advantage... The 2.5RS might be competitive in DSP if built to the limits of the rules. Same for SM, unless someone builds a ringer.

10-24-2000, 08:09 AM	#1
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	Getting the max power for STS? Seeing as I may be staying in the class for next year, I'm interested in what everyone has done that is STS legal and gives them a much needed power boost. So far all I have done is an intake & suspension, but I'm looking for a complete list so I can start a somewhat rough list and estimate a price on the power. So far for mods in STS I've got: Intake Exhaust CARB legal headers (Borla?) Underdrive Pulley Higher octane fuel Shorten tire height (in effect, reduce gear ratios) Light wheels Other then all those, all I can think of is altering the suspension (which I've done, but I haven't maxed out yet... planning a second STS question for the wheel/suspension forum). Any ideas? Is this actually a full list for our cars? Also has anyone heard of someone reprogramming the ECU for extra power or raised rev limiter? This would be nice but I haven't heard anyone do it without piggybacks. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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10-24-2000, 08:17 AM	#2
omahasubaru Scooby Guru Member#: 1594 Join Date: Jun 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Gretna, NE Vehicle: 1995 WRX 2011 WRX	Shhh... I haven't told anyone this, because I had to try out my car again and make sure, but my Rev limiter is like no-one elses. Everyone I know hits at 6250, but my car doesn't.. It idels at around 600 rpm, and my rev limitier kicks in at about 7100 rpm. Why it is like that I don't know, but those Cobb cams are tempting me just to see how hard it will pull past that 6250 mark. NE1 else out there have a higher rev limiter?? Or know why mine is like this. no-one I've talked to can explain it and well.. I didn't tell the dealer 'cause I was afraid they would take it away from me. One more thing.. headers are leagal for STS?? Sweet! Thanks-

10-24-2000, 08:24 AM	#3
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	Good list, but suspension is going to make a bigger difference than all those parts put together. That said, and since this is the engine forum: I would wait for the 2001 rulebook before deciding on headers. STS members have petitioned for the explicit allowance of high flow catalysts, which would IMO make the Borla header a bad choice. It takes a hard 90 degree turn to mate with the first stock catalyst. If you were to run aftermarket (straight through) catalysts, you could run 4-2-1 equal length headers like MRT offers. Hopefully a solution will present itself besides ordering from Australia, even though the AUD is at all time lows against the USD. On the tires, if you really want light I would run 225/50-15 PZeroes ($168 ea, tirerack) on 15x7 Advan RG (est $250 ea, TRi). There aren't many 225/50-15 high performance street tires though, so perhaps a 225/45-16 Pzero or Continental ContiSport would be a better idea, on stock wheels or Advan RG (16x7 > $350 ea) depending on your budget.

10-24-2000, 08:36 AM	#4
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	Omaha: what you probably have is a stock tachometer that is even less accurate than usual. I highly doubt you are actually revving to 7100rpm.

10-24-2000, 08:46 AM	#5
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	omahasubaru - You're not the first with this "problem". I've heard of several others, but mainly they ended around 6500. I think you may want to talk to Trey Cobb about that 7100 limit because IIRC he said the valves will start to float around 6800 or so. Of course, what Colin mentioned about the sloppy tach. is possible as well. Colin - Yeah, I know we aren't allowed to swap out the cat's just yet, but I think they'll have a hard time passing that one since it goes against federal DOT regulations (something about not changing the cat's unless the stock ones go bad is a felony or something..). You're right about the header design though, I highly agree that I don't like it as well. I also had planned on shortening the tire height, but I'm still unsure on which tires will be best (as I like to drift courses, this is a tough one - no STR for me for sure). Also, I had thought that Volks were lighter then Advans...

10-24-2000, 09:28 AM	#6
Revision Scooby Guru Member#: 242 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Carol Stream, IL USA Vehicle: MY05 PSM GGA !STOCK MY99 RS-RIP / MY95 MX-5	I see you havn't listed an AFC or ITC. Or were those items now listed for SM only?

10-24-2000, 09:35 AM	#7
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	Well, they're piggybacks and piggybacks in general are borderline items. It depends on the alignment of the moon and stars as to how they'll rule them. shrug

10-24-2000, 09:43 AM	#8
Warp3 NASIOC Supporter Member#: 161 Join Date: Aug 1999 Chapter/Region: South East Location: WNC Vehicle: 06 WRX TR (SGM) 89 MR2 (Ice Blue)	I don't know if this applies or not, but I'd heard that the 98 2.5RS had a redline of 6500 and the 99+ 2.5RS had a redline of 6250. Now if you have a 99+ then that info is useless to you. That would be very nice to have full exhaust allowed for Street Touring. I've done no exhaust work yet but if I upgrade the headers and catback, why should I run it through the tiny stock cat if there are other street-legal cats available. I've also heard there is a push to get motor mounts allowed in Street Touring...I'd like that rule. I want those mounts but I don't want to leave my class without alot more modification (and I don't want to lie about my class either).

10-24-2000, 09:46 AM	#9
Midwayman Scooby Specialist Member#: 1997 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Prospect Heights, IL Vehicle: 2006 Acura TL 6spd STMGM6 alumni	the ecu rule is Engine management computer or ECU may be altered, but car must meet federal emission standards. soooooooo even a replacement is okay as long if you can pass a test.... other bits on my list strut braces cross drilled rotors Braided brake lines brake ducts relocate battery Plus what you have, thats about it.

10-24-2000, 09:47 AM	#10
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	Warp3 - Yeah, the Neon guys are trying to get mounts in because they have to replace theirs about 3 times a year since they keep breaking. I was going to get in on the GB on them until I realized it'd kick me out of STS.

10-24-2000, 09:56 AM	#11
omahasubaru Scooby Guru Member#: 1594 Join Date: Jun 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Gretna, NE Vehicle: 1995 WRX 2011 WRX	Sorry to change subjects on you 8, but I have another question... What can I hook up to my car to see what RPM it is actually running and where it starts to be off at? BTW I have a MY99. I should probablly take into the dealership and see what they think, this is probablly a bad thing, 'cause I want a try tach that reads acurate.. hopefully that is all the problem is.

10-24-2000, 10:44 AM	#12
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	omahasubaru - You could take it to the dealership if you wanted, or you could borrow an accurate tach from someone (aftermarket) and hook it up temporarily. I'm sure if it is off, you can get the dealership to replace/fix it for free.

10-24-2000, 11:01 AM	#13
Chuck Scooby Specialist Member#: 791 Join Date: Jan 2000 Location: Danbury, CT 06810 Vehicle: 1998 Impreza RS Brilliant Red	I have a '98 and RPM's are limited at 6700. OK.. so if all the cool stuff I have is illegal in STS, what class am I in? MRT exhaust (The whole shebang) Intake Engine/Tranny Mounts APEX'i AFC Toyo Proxis F24's Short Shifter

10-24-2000, 11:10 AM	#14
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	The engine mounts might be legal, and the exhaust is only illegal if someone protests you. (it has to comply with federal emissions, which it probably does not. oh well.) Otherwise, you're in Street Modified. You could also be in D Street Prepared. Either requires slicks if you have any aspirations of success, but honestly I don't think it will help much.

10-24-2000, 11:14 AM	#15
RidinLow Scooby Guru Member#: 329 Join Date: Sep 1999 Chapter/Region: Tri-State Location: NJ Vehicle: 1995 325i Arctic Gray	It could help... I'm in DSP (thanks to my driver's seat) & I was within 2-3 seconds of 2 different ACR Neons with R compound tires (or were they slicks... didn't check that closely) last Sunday, & I'm on Nexus street tires. I'll see how things change when I use my newly acquired A032R's. What's the difference between SM & DSP? It seems that I should be in STS except for the seat and the AFC... but if the AFC could put me in SM & the seat definitely puts me in DSP, which way does it go? [This message has been edited by RidinLow (edited October 24, 2000).]

10-24-2000, 01:03 PM	#16
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	Yep, and it is a damned shame about how I hit that rock just right to damage mine. Both of them, and absolutely nothing else. stimpy: I expect to get my butt kicked in SM too. That's only weekend fun though, and I like the car a whole lot better after the cam install.

10-24-2000, 01:04 PM	#17
Midwayman Scooby Specialist Member#: 1997 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Prospect Heights, IL Vehicle: 2006 Acura TL 6spd STMGM6 alumni	1 hammer=1 damaged cat. Opps I hit something on the road.

10-24-2000, 01:34 PM	#19
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	How much does a racing harness really help you guys? Personally I am fine with the stock belt as I'm used to driving like that (and I'm a large guy that fits snugly in the seat already). Also kinda a poll... do you drive one-handed most of the time? I know I do until I'm coming up to big, tight turns. Someone was trying to tell me that I could turn faster with two hands, but I don't understand that as your goal is be smooth, not jaggedly-fast.

10-24-2000, 02:10 PM	#20
stimpy Homicidal Maniac Moderator Member#: 1612 Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Austin, TX Vehicle: 2008 STI	While racing a time or two ago, I was strictly racing with one hand (its how I usually drive). I constantly found my car not cornering hard enough. Well it wasn't really the way the car was setup, it was that I was driving one handed and I couldn't rotate my arm any further. A switch to two-handed steering netted me another 1.5 seconds and I didn't find myself pushing to the outside of corners any longer. Only problem with this is that yes, you can wrap your steering wheel around more, but you also have to unwrap your steering further to get it straight again. I now race with two-hands needless to say.

10-24-2000, 02:15 PM	#21
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	Hmmmmm... see my car is set up full oversteer so in reality I don't use much more then that one hand even on hard turns since I just flick into it and drift through it. The only time I use two hands is when I screw up and need to get back on course. shrug

10-24-2000, 02:18 PM	#22
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	We're getting OT but you're a moderator so... I drive with two hands most of the time on the street. When cruising for extended periods on the highway, I drive with only one had on the wheel, right between the two left spokes and I have a dent in the armrest from where my elbow ALWAYS rests. While autocrossing or otherwise driving spiritedly, I always have my hands at the 9&3 and I don't remove them from the wheel unless I have to.

10-24-2000, 02:22 PM	#23
8Complex Moderator Member#: 922 Join Date: Feb 2000 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Schaumburg, IL Vehicle: 04 FXT Red	It may be OT, but I was looking for a good place to post something autoX related on the board, and there was none. I think we need an autoX/rallyX forum. BTW, over 70mph and I definetly have two hands on the wheel. Gotta really be prepared if you're cruising along at 100+ and have to maneuver quickly (which fortunately has never happened to me and hopefully never will).

10-25-2000, 12:08 AM	#24
DLC out back Moderator Member#: 1964 Join Date: Jul 2000 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: 84XXX Vehicle: 01 BH Blue/Bronze	Here in Utah there are at least 3 guys with AFCs in STS, but one is actually illegal because he's got a CF hood. He's still faster than everyone by a good second regardless of that 14lbs. 225Pzeros, Advan 17x7.5, Tein and Rallispec have a bit to do with his success. Oh, and it's a hell of a fun ride in the passenger seat!

10-25-2000, 12:18 AM	#25
ColinL Scooby Guru Member#: 114 Join Date: Jul 1999 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Wichita, KS and Whoring, OT Vehicle: '03 Evo, Rice White '01 Erion CBR 929	Garrick, in DSP there are no competitors with over (WAY over) 300HP. In SM there are. Then again, no current SM cars weigh 1800lb. For a long while, the winning DSP car has been a Fiat X1/9 but you have a pretty signficant horsepower advantage... The 2.5RS might be competitive in DSP if built to the limits of the rules. Same for SM, unless someone builds a ringer.