Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday May 4, 2015
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo)

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-11-2004, 10:25 PM   #1
Lachlan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 19470
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
1981 Brat GL
Blue

Default Survey for MY02/VF-22 owners

I will probably put on a vf-22 soon, being it the biggest of the mid-sized turbos. I want to know what kind of system I'll need to support it and what to expect. I was planning on getting a UTEC, warlbro fuel pump, and upgraded injectors (Right now I have a stage 2 unichip, GFB Hybrid BOV, Samco intercooler hoses, and a TXS catless turboback).

This is my daily driver, getting about 12 miles per day, 5 days per week, but I would like to beef it up.

1) I read about modding the stock injectors rather than upgrading to STi pinks. I'd rather do the mod to save money; will these work ok with the vf-22?

2) Will the GFB Hybrid hold enough pressure, or will I need something more substantial? I've read about problems with 100% dump BOVs for lesser mods--is that still a consideration?

3) What PSI do you run at?

4) Is there an alternative to the UTEC I should consider?

5) I have no plans to replace the intercooler (but if I did I would stick with TMIC.) Will I be safe/happy with that, or is a larger intercooler a must?

6) The only modding experience I have (in the engine department) is my stage two work (and I've replaced some turbos), so I may be oblivious to something big. Is there anything else I need to consider?

Your experience and experiences are greatly appreciated.

Lachlan
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Lachlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2004, 10:38 PM   #2
wcbjr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4001
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: I love spherical bearings!
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy GT
Obsidian black

Default

1. Modded injectors are great and will supply more than enough fuel.

2. GFB is fine.

3. Due to number 5 below, I would run 18 midrange tapering to whatever the gives acceptable egt's up top. If a FMIC is used, I would bump it to around 21 in the mid.

4. UTEC is fine.

5. TMICs are fine unless you do a lot of stop and go driving.

6. You should be fine. Although the injector install is laborious the first time.

----

7. I hope you have an uppipe. And the 22's coolant lines may not be long enough.
wcbjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 02:13 AM   #3
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default Re: Survey for MY02/VF-22 owners

Quote:
Originally posted by Lachlan
I will probably put on a vf-22 soon, being it the biggest of the mid-sized turbos. I want to know what kind of system I'll need to support it and what to expect. I was planning on getting a UTEC, warlbro fuel pump, and upgraded injectors (Right now I have a stage 2 unichip, GFB Hybrid BOV, Samco intercooler hoses, and a TXS catless turboback).

This is my daily driver, getting about 12 miles per day, 5 days per week, but I would like to beef it up.

1) I read about modding the stock injectors rather than upgrading to STi pinks. I'd rather do the mod to save money; will these work ok with the vf-22?

2) Will the GFB Hybrid hold enough pressure, or will I need something more substantial? I've read about problems with 100% dump BOVs for lesser mods--is that still a consideration?

3) What PSI do you run at?

4) Is there an alternative to the UTEC I should consider?

5) I have no plans to replace the intercooler (but if I did I would stick with TMIC.) Will I be safe/happy with that, or is a larger intercooler a must?

6) The only modding experience I have (in the engine department) is my stage two work (and I've replaced some turbos), so I may be oblivious to something big. Is there anything else I need to consider?

Your experience and experiences are greatly appreciated.

Lachlan
Use STI pink injectors. They will supply plenty of fuel for the 22, retain stock like mileage, drivability and emissions. Modified injectors will not.

100% BOV's work but you will have a stumble at times. Fact of life on a mass air flow EFI system. GFB will hold.

Back when I ran a 22 I ran it from 14 psi up to 22 psi. They stop making power around 19 psi.

The alternative to the utec is a flashed ECU by a reputable tuner.

Stock IC is fine but an upgraded unit can produce 15whp pretty easily. I suggest a JDM STI intercooler. They can be purchased used and offer a 6% flow increase and more cooling.

cant think of anything else to add. Its a setup that many, many, many of us have run. 22 was popular a couple of years back. Do some research on them.

C
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 09:24 AM   #4
LatentWagen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 50315
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
0508 Saabaru & specB
Stage: Maintenance

Default Re: Re: Survey for MY02/VF-22 owners

Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
Use STI pink injectors. They will supply plenty of fuel for the 22, retain stock like mileage, drivability and emissions. Modified injectors will not.
C
im doing the same project, with the modded stocks. ive been told that with the flow matching capabilities of the utec, (ie, it can run the injectors exactly like 740 cc ones), the drivability concerns are removed. am i misinformed?
LatentWagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 10:07 AM   #5
wcbjr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4001
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: I love spherical bearings!
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy GT
Obsidian black

Default

RC Engineering said the spray pattern of modded injectors were "excellent". I'll take your word for it AZ, but I don't see much bad talk about them. And with him having a catless system, I don't see emissions being a problem. Oh, and modded stockers are free. Saving him money to go buy that STi intercooler.
wcbjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 01:38 PM   #6
Lachlan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 19470
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
1981 Brat GL
Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by wcbjr

7. I hope you have an uppipe. And the 22's coolant lines may not be long enough.
I have the stock uppipe, so I do have one, but I'm guessing you are referring to an aftermarket. Is it that critical? What about a gutted stocker? I ask because here in Montgomery co. Ohio they do a cat check at the emissions place. Despite that I'm missing the back two, I think the fact that they found one on the uppipe satisfied them. ( hope nobody at e-check reads this).
Lachlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 05:26 PM   #7
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default

You can use a JDm upipe which hase the factory appearance but has no cat. Modified injectors will not run as clean, smooth or work as well as the STI or PE injectors. I have tuned many, many sets. They work but you will have a rich cold start condition and you will have lower mileage and a car that does not run as clean. If this does not bother you then great.. Go for it.. With a VF22 I would certainly get Pinks... Used they are $250 a set..

C
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 05:40 PM   #8
wcbjr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4001
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: I love spherical bearings!
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy GT
Obsidian black

Default

I could prolly search but... how do 550s not give a rich condition yet 850s will (when tuned)? Does the factory ECU just gives a set number of pulses or width? Can't those be adjusted per injector size?
wcbjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 05:45 PM   #9
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default

WC. Its not about tuning.. Its about the spray pattern of the injectors and the quality of the fuel charge. Modified units work but they are messy and you may have better results with other options.

On this setup the guy is using a little VF22 which in no way needs anywhere near as much fuel as modified stockers put out. He will get stock like drivability with pinks and cold start will be stock like as well. Seems like a no brainer to me..

If the guy said he was using a Green or larger turbo and was a drag racer with a fully upgraded fuel system I might be more inclined to suggest modified units..

C
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 06:10 PM   #10
wcbjr
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 4001
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: I love spherical bearings!
Vehicle:
2006 Legacy GT
Obsidian black

Default

Ok. Thx for the input.
wcbjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 06:31 PM   #11
LatentWagen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 50315
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
0508 Saabaru & specB
Stage: Maintenance

Default

az... with the utec you can flow the modded stocks like 740's... not to say that a 22 requires 740s, but its nice to have a little headroom.

-ed
LatentWagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 06:43 PM   #12
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default

Ed.. I think you might have missed the point... I understand that you can use a Utec to scale injectors. When you read my post assume that the tuning is not the issue and the tunes are perfect.

Thanks

Clark
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 09:13 PM   #13
jblaine
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8512
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: St. Pete, FL
Vehicle:
2002 WRX chassis...
stage-infinity.com

Default

Clark, just out of curiosity (I've no interest in modded stockers), but is the rich startup condition something that can be tuned out via EcuTek reflashing?
jblaine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 09:18 PM   #14
Lachlan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 19470
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
1981 Brat GL
Blue

Default

Are there any other opinions from vf-22 users?
Lachlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2004, 09:32 PM   #15
ctwrxwagon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 22724
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Wilton, CT
Vehicle:
2002 Bah, Sold My
404whp/414wtq Wagon :(

Default

I'll give you my humble opinion.

My setup consists of the following:
Denso Iridiums @ .025 Gap
Stock Block/Internals
Greddy Airinix Intake
Greddy FMIC
STi Pinks
Perrin Turbo Inlet Pipe
VF22 (stock, no p/p or clipping or helper spring)
UTEC (w/ a map from a car with the same mods I have)
Helix Catchcan
TurboXS Uppipe
Helix Downpipe
Brullen Catback
TurboXS RFL BOV

The car drives like stock, when you hit it, it breaks the tires loose (well, my tires are almost completely bald anyway). The car boosts hard, no knocks (knock on wood), 20psi, and it works out quite nicely.

IDC's are ~80ish, the blow-off valve vents 100%, and yeah, it does run rich between shifts (after-fire, suffice to say, according to 3/4 of the people i talk to.. they say the rfl doesnt hold boost, bs, it does).

Anywho, the car runs nicely, the stock coolant hose does not fit, the car feels good and the fmic is a definite nice addition, the vf22 pushes enough air to not have toooo much lag, but ehh, its a vf22, it is going to have a slight bit of lag, but up top its quite nice, mid range pulls good as well.

Finally, with my setup, fuel consumption actually seems to be DOWN ??

Anywho, thats my two cents/opinion/experience with the vf22 and my setup. Hopefully it all works out for both you and I.

Cheers,
Gered
ctwrxwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 12:26 AM   #16
LatentWagen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 50315
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
0508 Saabaru & specB
Stage: Maintenance

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by AZScoobie
Use STI pink injectors. They will supply plenty of fuel for the 22, retain stock like mileage, drivability and emissions. Modified injectors will not.

C
maybe i misunderstood your post then... to me, your syntax indicates that "Modified injectors will not: supply plenty of fuel for the 22, retain stock like mileage, drivability and emissions"

obviously there's more than enough fuel, so aside from that, what kind of general driveablity problems do the modded stocks incurr? also, what exactly is the cold start problem?

-ed
LatentWagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 12:51 AM   #17
cronic
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 9749
Join Date: Aug 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
-

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by midnite_wrex
maybe i misunderstood your post then... to me, your syntax indicates that "Modified injectors will not: supply plenty of fuel for the 22, retain stock like mileage, drivability and emissions"

obviously there's more than enough fuel, so aside from that, what kind of general driveablity problems do the modded stocks incurr? also, what exactly is the cold start problem?

-ed
Ed, Clark is 100% correct on what he is telling you.. I have been running the modded stocks and my gas mileage is terrable to say the least.. Like he says there are better options out there, but if price is a concern, like it was when i was doing my build then go modded.. Now that i think of it though i have probally paid for a set of PE's, in gas i have burned since installing these..

P.s if you want to afford a real set of injectors, stop losing $25 to evo's..
cronic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 08:14 AM   #18
LatentWagen
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 50315
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: New York
Vehicle:
0508 Saabaru & specB
Stage: Maintenance

Default

Quote:
Originally posted by cronic

P.s if you want to afford a real set of injectors, stop losing $25 to evo's..
thats ****ed up man

i plan on leaving those brackets off so i can easily install pinks when i win my money back after the 22 goes in
LatentWagen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 11:23 AM   #19
TCENGEL
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 8302
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Arlington Heights, IL
Vehicle:
2002 WRX WRB Sold!
2006 Scion TC-T

Default

If you have no dyno around I would go with the Ecutek and pink injectors. That way you can get a base map sent to you and your ready to go. It will be hard to find a map for the modded injectors.
If your comfortable or want to learn to tune yourself, then go ahead with the modded injectors and Utec.

I ran the Vishnu tuned Ecutek on my MY02 with VF-22 and the car always ran great with no additional tuning neaded. You can also use delta dash to make small changes in case you want to try race gas.
TCENGEL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 05:07 PM   #20
Scoobs2002
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64615
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Canada
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
GT42R Power!

Default

This is my current VF22 setup..installed and tuned by Johnson Lii @ Ultimate Racing...

IHI VF22
Ultimate racing Up pipe and downpipe combo...catless DP
Ultimate racing 600cc Cylinder flow matched injectors
Walbro 255 Pump
3" cat back exhaust
EcuTech Flash with custom tune
Turbo Smart Eboost EBC
Turbo Smart Super V BOV
Injen Race Division CAI
JDM Front and Rear Strut tower brace(s)
AVO Catch Can
Spearco 1100CFM TMIC
ACT Stree lite Flywheel and Clutch
Set at 19 psi

I havnt run the car yet, because the stock cluth slips when im under high boost, but I did race a 12.8 sec 1/4 mile stang from a roll and drilled him by 7 cars or more....



Scoobs
Scoobs2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 06:51 PM   #21
ctwrxwagon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 22724
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Wilton, CT
Vehicle:
2002 Bah, Sold My
404whp/414wtq Wagon :(

Default

Don't mean to rain on your parade.. but a rwd car with that 1/4 time would def be closer than 7 cars.. need to know a trap time on his end to be honest..

But seriously.. err.. he musn't have known how to drive.

With the 22. and a stock "slipping clutch".. you aren't going to be runnin anywhere near a 12.8...

And this comment comes from me. a 22 user myself.. with a stock clutch that slips as well

-G
ctwrxwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 06:56 PM   #22
Scoobs2002
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 64615
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Canada
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza WRX
GT42R Power!

Default

Say what you want.....the car only slips first..thats why it was from a roll. My new clutch is going in on friday......ill be sure to go him agian at the track from a stop.
Scoobs2002 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 08:41 PM   #23
AZScoobie
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 8785
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Vehicle:
02 c_turner@ix.
netcom.com

Default

I ran two 22's and tweaked the ever living crap out of them. They are realisticaly good for 108mph-112mph traps and mid 12 second 1/4's. Maxed out on race fuel wtih all the supporting parts. Its just not that big of a turbo...

C
AZScoobie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 09:13 PM   #24
Lachlan
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 19470
Join Date: May 2002
Chapter/Region: SWIC
Location: albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:
1981 Brat GL
Blue

Default

I know the 22 isn't a PE 44,000 or whatever they're up to, but I could put $10,000 into my suby and still it wouldn't be a Lamborghini. I'm not planning on breaking the sound barrier on the ground either. I just think that the VF-22-sized setup is an achievable one for me that should make me much more satisfied than my current configuration.
Lachlan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2004, 09:55 PM   #25
Davenow
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 23676
Join Date: Aug 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: de_dust and Orgrimar
Vehicle:
.

Default Re: Survey for MY02/VF-22 owners

1) I read about modding the stock injectors rather than upgrading to STi pinks. I'd rather do the mod to save money; will these work ok with the vf-22?

These will work ONLY if you have the car tuned on a dyno. You cant just do this and install the UTEC< you will run WAY too rich, your car may not even run it will be so rich. If you dont have teh $400-600 bucks for a dyno tune, then just buy the STI injects. Personally, you are better off with the STI injects AND a dyno tune. There is no way of telling you how much of a difference a good dyno tune makes. I paid just about $700 for Phil to dyno tune my car. I picked up 38whp, a ton of TQ, lost ALL knock, and spooled a good 1000 rpm sooner. Dollar for dollar, no mod has come close.

2) Will the GFB Hybrid hold enough pressure, or will I need something more substantial? I've read about problems with 100% dump BOVs for lesser mods--is that still a consideration?

GFB bov's are CRAP. Everyone with one that I have ever met/known has had problems with them leaking boost. The stocker is unfortunately also not up to the task, although it is WORLDS better than the GFB. A modified stocker, or an STI bov would be your best bet. I personally run a TXS Type H with a bunch of washers so it wont leak.

3) What PSI do you run at?

16PSI daily driver
18PSI more agressive
21PSI when I need to get down like that

4) Is there an alternative to the UTEC I should consider?
Hydra

5) I have no plans to replace the intercooler (but if I did I would stick with TMIC.) Will I be safe/happy with that, or is a larger intercooler a must?
Larger TMIC adds a larger safety margin for detonation. ALso, you are going to spool faster with a more free flowing tmic. The stock tmic has a 3PSI pressure drop, a hyperflow has a .3 psi drop. This means for 18PSI in your manifold, with the stock TMIC< your turbo has to make 21PSI at the outlet. WIth a hyperflow, it would only have to make 18.3 PSI. This means it is working a LOT less to make the same boost pressure, which means cooler, less detonation prone, more powerful air.

6) The only modding experience I have (in the engine department) is my stage two work (and I've replaced some turbos), so I may be oblivious to something big. Is there anything else I need to consider?

Dont do this by yourself. You will be dealing with the fuel system. A leak can mean a BIG fire.
Davenow is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Favor needed for a former Suby owner sjs0433 Mid Atlantic Impreza Club -- MAIC 11 06-02-2010 08:42 PM
Best Turbo For Wrx Vf-22 Or Vf-34? Help! Waking The Fallen Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 32 09-14-2006 04:09 PM
anyone have a map for a vf-22 turboxs fmic moorebl Engine Management & Tuning 1 12-06-2004 06:39 PM
VF-22 user survey RiftsWRX Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 7 05-12-2002 02:56 PM
VF-22 Owners should read this.. paultg New England Impreza Club Forum -- NESIC 0 08-14-2001 05:55 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2015 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.