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Old 04-19-2005, 02:53 PM   #76
keirnna
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Yeah I knew where the god comment came from. Thanks for the help. So what other changes do you think I would need to make to my car to support the higher CR? Higher octane gas? Colder/warmer plugs? Would you recommend getting some higher CR pistons to up the CR to 12:1 or 12.5:1? Thanks again for the help.
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Old 04-28-2005, 06:47 PM   #77
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Well,
Got the healthy car back to the dyno on Monday. 137.7whp and 135.5ft/lb of torque. Interesting numbers. Previously my car was making substantially more torque than horsepower. I am not sure if it is just a result of the different dyno, or if the CR bump increased my horsepower without really effecting my torque. Anyone else who has run on a dyna-pack care to share their results for comparison?

Regardless, 38whp over stock is pretty good. And once again any other work on the car is being pushed back. I have acquired an RS-RA longblock and spent all of my Ej257 build money on getting that...
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Old 04-28-2005, 07:17 PM   #78
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Do you have a dyno chart?
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Old 04-13-2006, 03:39 PM   #79
Matt Monson
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Bizzump from the dead. I never posted the old chart because the resolution was so crappy. But here's the new chart with my new heads. 149.1whp and 148ft/lb:

Up 11.4whp and 12.5ft/lb. The only changes since the previous run are the addition of PnP'd heads and STI HG's instead of Cometics. Still no tuning. And the heads actually improved the A/F's a fair bit. Before, I dropped below 11:1 at 5600rpm, and saw 10.5:1 at 6200rpm. Now, it never drops below 11:1 and is actually at 11.8:1 or higher all the way to 5700. No CELs, and she still idles likes she's almost stock.

I know some rube is going to skip ahead and not read the whole thread and pipe in about how their car makes 165whp with the same mods. Bite your tongue! This dyno has stock RS's pulling 95-98 whp, which puts me at 50+whp over stock. Actual #'s are not as important as gains and consistency in both testing and repeatablility over time. We did a couple of pulls, and the lowest was 148.7whp. And if you ask questions answered previously in the thread, I will just ignore you for not doing your homework.

Sorry for the long delay on getting this done. Part of it was side projects and part of it was a cam failure. You can read about the details here :
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...highlight=dyno

The one thing that surprises me is that while my power comes on about 500rpm later than with the headwork, the peak torque and HP are at the same rpms as before, just higher. In fact, the charts really look the same before and after the headwork, but just higher up...
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Old 04-13-2006, 05:56 PM   #80
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looks good! a/fs seem a little rich to me though. Id like to see more in the 12's
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Old 04-13-2006, 06:00 PM   #81
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I agree. They are actually in the 12's until 4400rpm, and then get richer. There's power being left on the table there, but I am not motivated enough to do anything about it for now...
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Old 04-13-2006, 06:30 PM   #82
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lol. I know the feeling. good to hear the RS is running again with awesome numbers
still have the nitrous on it?
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Old 04-13-2006, 06:58 PM   #83
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nos? never had it, never will, just like 7up...
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Old 04-13-2006, 06:59 PM   #84
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so then matt, here's a question for you.

I was thinking, since I haven't researched it yet, but I thought that running a colder plug on higher compression motors and a hotter plug on lower compression motors was better?

What's your heat level? (or rather, p/n on the plug, and what do they cost?)
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Old 04-13-2006, 07:11 PM   #85
Matt Monson
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PFR5's. I've got to get out of here, but will add some comments in the morning...
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Old 04-14-2006, 12:32 PM   #86
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Nice #'s Matt!

Those heads were 'purdy under teh Ghetto Garrage lighting, and it lookls like they perform as well.

We should hit Bandimere soon. I need to see what me Leggy can run as-is before any further "serious" mods are underway.

You might just pull on me with all that up-top powa

-Chad
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Old 04-14-2006, 01:21 PM   #87
Matt Monson
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I'll go out to Bandi with you. I've never been, and don't really care for running the 1/4, but it would be fun to go with you...
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Old 04-14-2006, 04:42 PM   #88
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Nice dyno run Matt, I'll keep watching you and Solutions builds. Saving pennies for mine one day.
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Old 04-14-2006, 06:37 PM   #89
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Sweet. It looks like Badi just opened today, and will start "test and tune" sessions May 3 (and every Wednesday after that).

I just like to see how mod's affect times & traps (more important to me than ET)... thus why I want to go and get some "baseline" runs.

We'll plan somethin' in May.
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Old 04-14-2006, 06:43 PM   #90
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ok then. I'll be around this weekend if you wanna drop in for a ride...
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Old 04-15-2006, 01:02 AM   #91
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i want to!
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Old 04-15-2006, 09:29 AM   #92
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Nice plots Matt.

I am actually working on my engine today, finally.
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Old 04-16-2006, 12:42 AM   #93
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Good stuff, Matt. I need to "re-baseline" my car now that I'm back on the mainland and have access to some dyno facilities. I don't think there are any Dyno Dynamics setups in the DC area (all my past dyno runs were on a DD unit up in Massachusetts), so I need to run the car on a Dynojet (or whatever) to see what my poor, abused, 163k mile engine is putting out these days.

I notice that on both your most recent graph, and the older one from the Mustang Dyno, that you seem to have the same low/mid-range dip that I have. I don't have all my dyno graphs up on my primitive "website", and I'm at my parents' place for the weekend, but here's one of my runs (I think this was before the Injen intake went on the car):

My dip is a bit lower in the RPM range than yours on that graph, but based on datalogging I've done since then (and based on seat of the pants) mine is in the same ballpark as yours now. Does your car feel funny through there? There have been some discussions here for years about whether or not the so-called "torque box" does anything, and I'm tempted to fab up an intake using a torque box to see on the dyno if it would make that dip go away. Of course, I tossed my torque box a while ago, sooooo... that's not happening anytime too soon. I've never figured out what causes that dip. Well, I know the ECU pulls timing pretty aggressively through there, but I've never figured out why - AFRs are good, I've replaced plugs, wires, coil, knock sensor, etc, but it's always been there (ever since I started doing significant mods to the engine). So, that's why I'm curious to try putting a torque box back on the car to see if that magically fixes it.

Charlie, you're a step ahead of me on the engine build. I have a Phase II shortblock sitting in my garage (untouched since I picked it up about a month ago), and just got some used DOHC heads. I also have a couple extra intake manifolds to play with, but thus far all this stuff has just been accumulating in the garage. Eventually I'll get off my ass and do something with it all.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan

PS - Looking all the way back through the thread, I still hate the way Mustang's dyno graphs look. Take a look at the very useful y-axis on the DD graph, and then look at the scrunched up y-axis on the Mustang graph. Any car will have a nice flat torque curve when the y-axis is in 50hp (or ft-lb) divisions!!
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Old 04-16-2006, 11:35 AM   #94
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Pat,
I never had any interest in getting the car on the dyno until I had the cams, so I cannot comment on the dip being there or not prior to them. What I do know is that just after the dip as the torque ramps up is right where the cam appears to "come on". On my previous runs, before the headwork, the dip was roughly 400rpm earlier, and now power comes on a bit later. I haven't bothered to datalog anything just because I haven't spent the money on the equipment. (please don't everyone start posting their cheap datalogging equipment links now, I know what's out there and where to get it!). I do need to get something (probably what Charlie uses) if I want to try and have Bill at I-Speed write me a map from 2000mi away. But I am going to wait until I get the pistons from Cobb and up the CR to bother. Realistically, that's 6 months off. I should have the pistons in a month or two, but I am going to try and smog the car, as-is, come September. That, and I have this supercharged car to get built this summer...

In the meantime, I picked up an ITC, and am going to install it and start to play with it. Who knows, I might be able to squeeze a few more horses out with some top end timing advance...
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Old 04-17-2006, 07:05 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Up 11.4whp and 12.5ft/lb. The only changes since the previous run are the addition of PnP'd heads and STI HG's instead of Cometics.
Matt, could you summarize what all is done to this car? I've lost track of where you're at, what with your multiple threads discussing where you're going (N/A ... no, supercharged! ... no, N/A and supercharged! ).

Anything special about the STI gaskets? What compressed thickness are they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Still no tuning. And the heads actually improved the A/F's a fair bit. Before, I dropped below 11:1 at 5600rpm, and saw 10.5:1 at 6200rpm. Now, it never drops below 11:1 and is actually at 11.8:1 or higher all the way to 5700. No CELs, and she still idles likes she's almost stock.
I'm sure the ITC will be fun to play with, but I think you'd see more gains from an S-AFC. By leaning things out at the top end (my AFRs were similar to yours, in the 11:1 range from about 4500rpm on up) I picked up about 5ft-lb across the band from 4300 - redline. (And when I say "redline", I mean the manly 6500rpm DOHC redline, none of this ***** SOHC stuff ).

As for the torque dip, looking back at the graphs I have, it doesn't seem to evidence itself until I added the S-AFC in my case. But since then I've tried just about everything (including zeroing out the S-AFC) and it is still something I can feel in the SOTP. I dunno...

Pat
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Old 04-18-2006, 11:33 AM   #96
Matt Monson
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Pat,
recount:
Cobb CAI
Cobb EL headers w/hi flow
Stromung catback
Unorthodox underdriven and ligthened pulley
Exedy LW flywheel
NGK PFR5 platinums
Cobb Spicy cams
CHR Motorsports Pnp'd head w/stock internals
Stock '01 shortblock
And my car is a freak of nature and has a 6400rpm fuel cut.

As for the AFC, the MY00 RS's are known for learning around it. I have an AFC-II but have never bothered to install it. The ITC would just be an experiment. Everyone says that the stock ECU can't advance timing enough up top. If I can advance the timing a bit, I may be able to eek out a little more power, and correct me if I'm wrong, but longer burn based on advanced timing, may lean me out a bit...
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Old 04-18-2006, 11:44 AM   #97
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Matt,

I have kind of followed through this thread and fully understand your motor building history, but wouldn't installing a PP6 be the solution to your tuning? You can directly monitor/change fueling and you can change timing as well. Especially if you found one used it seems as though it would be a pretty inexpensive solution for you. Basically the same price range as the I-speed reflash, but with it you could do dyno tuning to be sure whether or not you are making a good change or not.

.02

Jared
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Old 04-18-2006, 02:09 PM   #98
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I go back and forth on the PP. I own one. I am planning on using it on the supercharged car. My hesitation in using it on the RS is the inability to change my redline. I think once I have the 11:1 CR pistons in there, I am really going to want to move the redline. In the meantime, something like the ITC is just to play with it. I have never been about getting the absolute max power, and more about lots of driveable power. I really like the fact that in it's current state the car doesn't require any sort of piggyback to make it run right, and that anything I add is ancillary and not necessary...
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Old 04-18-2006, 11:13 PM   #99
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Thanks for the recap, Matt. I think later this year at some point I'm going to pick up some OBX headers (Cobb copy) and see about doing a dyno comparison with those and my current MRT setup.

Pat
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Old 04-19-2006, 10:55 AM   #100
Matt Monson
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Pat,
I was wondering if you ever got a flow chart from Cobb for your heads?

Oh, and STI HG's are the same thickness as stock phase II Ej25 gaskets, they are just a multi-layer all metal gasket...

Last edited by Matt Monson; 04-19-2006 at 11:00 AM.
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