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Old 04-20-2006, 10:19 AM   #101
Matt Monson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farfrumwork
Sweet. It looks like Badi just opened today, and will start "test and tune" sessions May 3 (and every Wednesday after that).

I just like to see how mod's affect times & traps (more important to me than ET)... thus why I want to go and get some "baseline" runs.

We'll plan somethin' in May.
Well,
In light of our little encounter this morning, I don't think we need to wait until the 1/4 to get an idea of where we stand. My one question to you is, where you holding back to avoid running up my arse, or were we dead even?

Oh, and remind me how many psi of boost you have that thing set at?
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:22 PM   #102
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haha - yeah that was fun!

I was flat foot on the gas, and I'd say pretty dead even. The gearing difference was obvious - as you shifted into 3rd when I still had 750-1000rpm left in 2nd. I'm pretty sure I make more torque around 3-4000rpm (boost peak), but I bet we're fairly even powa wise above that.

12.5-13psi or so (2700-4000rpm, steadily dropping to 9-10psi after 6k - -boooooo VF11 )


Too bad there were 100 freakin cars in front of us on Valmont!!! grrrrrr
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:42 PM   #103
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Stupid cars. I did want to roll it out to the top of 4th. I thought you had it buried, but wanted to be sure.

The one thing I will say in my "defense" is that I have about 200lbs of 914 engine and tranny parts in my trunk right now. That probably brings our two cars to pretty dead even in weight, which would suggest that our power is pretty close to the same. Did you ever get it on the dyno at Super?
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Old 04-20-2006, 02:19 PM   #104
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No, I haven't been on the dyno yet. What do they charge for a few non-tuning pulls? I would like to get a confirmation on #'s how the power curve looks.

No defense needed man, that RS is flyin'!! It spurs me on to get some things worked out on my TURBO 2.2l, which is on-par with a massaged NA 2.5l... (more AWIC fluid capacity, and bigger snail and/or header - fluid capacity first, before the heat comes this summer)
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Old 04-20-2006, 03:44 PM   #105
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It's $70 for a baseline pull, which is pretty cheap. When I went Cobb a few years ago, it was $125 for the pull. And Harvey at Super will actually do 2-3 pulls for that price...
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Old 04-20-2006, 05:57 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson
Pat,
I was wondering if you ever got a flow chart from Cobb for your heads?

Oh, and STI HG's are the same thickness as stock phase II Ej25 gaskets, they are just a multi-layer all metal gasket...
No, I never thought to ask at the time, and I'd be surprised if they could find the data 4 years later.

And thanks for the info on the STi HGs.

Pat
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Old 04-20-2006, 06:18 PM   #107
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Sweet. I'll hafta give 'ol Haaaarrggvey a call soon.
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Old 04-20-2006, 06:24 PM   #108
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I was afraid you wouldn't have it. Don't remember if this is earlier in the thread, but here's a couple of different heads and stage I SOHC heads. Those numbers are almost identical to what I had mine ported to...


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Old 04-20-2006, 07:34 PM   #109
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Mine on the intake side is similar but on the exhaust side mine is quite a bit higher.
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Old 04-20-2006, 07:45 PM   #110
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Keep in mind, SOLUTION, that flow benches are much like dynos in that it really depends on who's doing the testing and exactly how they do it. I've seen it first hand with the heads that are on my Mustang - the numbers were about 25cfm different at two different shops.

Pat
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Old 04-21-2006, 10:35 AM   #111
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Like Pat said, there's a lot of variables at play there, like altitude, for one. Mine were done at 5000ft and that makes a difference. They were also tested at 28". That's going to change from shop to shop. The dyno analogy is really a good one.

Also, something to be sure of is are you looking at the best exhaust port or the worst?

I deliberately didn't have my head guy get too aggressive with it because I wanted to maintain some of the low RPM port velocity. If it were a full on race build with a 7500-8000rpm redline, I would be looking for more flow and might even consider having the exhaust ports moved to straighten out the long exhaust port a bit...
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Old 04-22-2006, 07:36 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
I notice that on both your most recent graph, and the older one from the Mustang Dyno, that you seem to have the same low/mid-range dip that I have. I don't have all my dyno graphs up on my primitive "website", and I'm at my parents' place for the weekend, but here's one of my runs (I think this was before the Injen intake went on the car)
Pat and Matt,

This may sound a little weird but I think the dip can be changed by changing the length and diameter of the intake. If your current intake diameter is 2.5", try a 3". The longer the tubing, the better. Also, it helps if your car runs a little too rich before the change so that when it runs leaner with the larger diameter, it will put you right where you need to be a/f ratio wise. This is my non-scientific observation of playing with intakes. Don't just take my looney word for it though, try it out if you get the chance. Looking forward to reading more on your projects.
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Old 05-08-2006, 01:47 PM   #113
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bump. I just ran through the second complete tank of gas since the heads. 22mpg on mostly urban driving with just a touch of hwy. This current tank already got 100 mi of hwy on it. I may top it off today just to get an idea of hwy mileage...
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Old 06-06-2006, 08:46 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
I need to "re-baseline" my car now that I'm back on the mainland and have access to some dyno facilities. I don't think there are any Dyno Dynamics setups in the DC area (all my past dyno runs were on a DD unit up in Massachusetts), so I need to run the car on a Dynojet (or whatever) to see what my poor, abused, 163k mile engine is putting out these days.
I went and dyno'd my car today at Extreme Motorsports, which is about 10-15min away from me and has an AWD Dynojet. Me likey having a dyno so close! If I had known there was one so close, I wouldn't have waited so long to run the car. Anway, at the low end, the graph looks like ass, as you can clearly see the car pulling timing. Once it gets to open loop around 4000rpm, though, look out! Tomorrow I'm going to install the "hesitation fix" on the knock sensor and see what that does. More on that at a later date...

Anyway, here's a graph. The blue curve is what the car laid down when we first put it on the rollers. The ECU had last been reset probably a week or so ago, S-AFC settings were as I had set them in the past (based on dyno time and, later, some wideband "tuning" with my LM-1). After doing the initial run, I unhooked the battery to reset the ECU and then did some more runs. The red lines are from the 1st run after the ECU reset and that's the highest HP figure the car put down. Interestingly enough, that's with the S-AFC all zero'd out, which is strange because 4 years ago (the last time it was on the dyno) the car clearly gained top end when I leaned it out with the S-AFC.


I did a couple of "experiments". I did 8 runs in 3rd gear, and 1 run in 4th gear. The 4th gear pull was down about 10hp. On my last run, I dropped all 4 tires from 42# to 32# but it looks like the data has a glitch, because there's a gap at the top end on the low pressure run, so that experiment failed for now.

Pat

PS - This car, with essentially the same modifications (I've swapped out the muffler section) put down 142whp on the Dyno Dynamics dyno. At that point it had 100k miles or so on it (I'll have to go look that up), it now has nearly 168k miles on it. If anything, I would expect it to be making less power now than it did 4 years ago, yet the slightly-more-optimistic Dynojet has it cranking out an extra 26hp.
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Old 06-07-2006, 08:54 AM   #115
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Nice looking chart. Makes me wonder how the TWE Stage III heads will do.

Do you know the lift and duration specs of COBB Stage II Spicy's?
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:07 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MY99 2.5GT
Do you know the lift and duration specs of COBB Stage II Spicy's?
No. I hadn't realized they had taken them off the website and only have the SOHC listed now.

I'm not sure who it was I talked to the other day, but I spoke with someone there on Monday. They were about as helpful as a rubber crutch. I asked about going to the spicy cams and raising the rev limiter and was told "we don't recommend it." Uhhh, my understanding is that the power peak is shifted to the stock redline, so raising the rev limiter would be required to get the most benefit out of the cams. If I were to raise the redline, how high should I raise it to take advantage of that top end up power. "That's something you'd have to figure out for yourself. We've never build a N/A engine with a raised redline so we don't know." Uhhhh, thanks, you've been a ton of help.

Of course, now that I look at their website and see that the DOHC spicy cams aren't even listed anymore, I wonder if they still offer that regrind service. One would think the guy I talked to would have said something if they didn't, but one would also think he would have had some clue about his products, too, soooo...

Pat
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Old 06-08-2006, 11:57 AM   #117
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I know who you talked to, but I won't name any names. But I can lend a little insight into it. The fact of the matter is they don't offer anything other than the mild cam for the DOHC anymore. The reason for this is that Web only offers one grind. I think the old "spicy" DOHC cams were a custom grind they had done in limited numbers and since they no longer have any call for DOHC Ej25 stuff they are disinterested in pursuing anything on your behalf.

CharlieIII, who's on this board, but kind of quiet about his build, recently purchased Stage II heads from Cobb. He is under the impression that it's a set of heads that sat in stock for a long time and that they were just happy to move the inventory and they made him a really good deal. He tried to get the "spicy" cams and they told him they weren't an option. He had some other issues with the heads as well, but I am not to fond of vendor bashing, so won't get into it. Let's just leave it at there's no such thing as a spicy cam for DOHC heads anymore, at least through Cobb.

As for TWE? They have had some internal issues of late as well. There has been some staff turn over and some major screw ups on some orders as well. Just read Solution's thread for details.

Pat,
If you are looking for upgraded cams, I would suggest looking into the HKS v3 STi cams at a 264 degree duration grind. This is what Xephyr is running in his car. He is getting identical HP numbers as I am, on the same dyno. But he doesn't have any port work done on the heads, so I would expect that you would get even more out of them. It does significantly change the nature of your powerband. You will lose a lot of that nice flat torque curve and become way more peaky. The HKS cams are flat until about 4000 rpm and then they start to ramp up. They make peak horsepower at around 7000rpm and peak torwue around 6000rpm. My car is making more torque everywhere in the powerband and my peak torque is 10ft-lb greater than his. The only reason he catches me in HP is the revs. I have driven the car, and it would be great for a road course or time attack car. But for rally-x or auto-x the milder cams with a wider flatter torque band are probably a better choice...
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Old 06-09-2006, 12:28 AM   #118
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Nice dyno graph Pat! Looks like your car is making the most power right around the 13.0:1 air/fuel ratio mark in either run.

Nice hp/torque numbers.
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Old 08-24-2008, 05:59 PM   #119
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Bump.

Don't call it a comeback. I never left. More to follow. Muahahahahahaha?!?!?!?!?!?
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:09 PM   #120
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holy flippin bump Matt!! Who rocks an N/A motor anymore?? :P
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:40 PM   #121
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Don't call it a comeback. I never left.
That's my line .

Did you have fun with a little package of bottles?
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Old 08-24-2008, 06:42 PM   #122
Patrick Olsen
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Bump.

Don't call it a comeback. I never left. More to follow. Muahahahahahaha?!?!?!?!?!?
I think someone is jealous because I posted about building my new engine and Qman posted his dyno results in my other dyno thread.



Look forward to reading what you've come up with.

Pat

PS - I think it's time to check my subscriptions. I'm still subscribed to this thread 2+ years later!
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:08 PM   #123
Matt Monson
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Let's just say that the wife's '99 RS popped a head gasket on the way to the rally-x yesterday morning. We'll see if I can get a walk in dyno appt. tomorrow afternoon.

ps. I wouldn't bump a thread about NA Ej25 builds to talk about some cough syrup that I added to a stock Ej18. That's just wrong.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:51 PM   #124
Matt Monson
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Hello,
I just thought I would update on what's going on. It took a little longer than desired to get my hands on a clutch disc. Everyone wanted to sell me a complete clutch kit with PP, TO bearing, Pilot Bearing and disc. I just needed a disc since I was installing my ACT PP with 7k mi on it and didn't want to put her 85K mi disc back in there just to do back in there in a year. So I waited until Monday and ordered one from one of my wholesale vendors.

Anyway, what I have done is basically put back together the engine that used to run in my 2000 RS. The major changes are as follows:

1. Her car is a '99 RS with the funky MAF.
2. Her car didn't get a LW flywheel
3. There's no CAI on her car, just a cone filter intake.

Otherwise it's the same heads with spicy cams. It's the Cobb exhaust from the headers to the tailpipe. It definitely doesn't feel as strong as my car did. at the same time, it no longer detonates above 5500rpm, which it has always done with the intake. But we'll see what's really going on when I get it on the dyno, hopefully on Friday.

I am also interested in seeing if I can eek out any additional power from it using an AFC like Pat has used so successfully. It wasn't worth the bother on my 2000 because it would learn around it. I'll be happy if I can match my old numbers by getting a better tune but not having the advantage of the flywheel. More to come...
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:04 AM   #125
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Well,
I finally got a chance to run my car on the dyno yesterday. I ran it at Modern Garage on their Mustang dyno. This is the same dyno that Cobb uses for all of their numbers, which is part of why I ran there. Not only will it let me compare to their posted numbers, but it tells me how my car is actually doing at the elevation I live and drive at.
First off, my mods, for those who don't know my set up, or may find this on a search later:

2.5RS 5MT w/100,000mi on the block
ACT clutch and pressure plate w/stock flywheel
Unorthodox UD pulley
Cobb CAI
Cobb equal length headers
Stromung TT cat back exhaust
Cobb "spicy" cams on unported heads
Would there be a point to switching to a DOHC?
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