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Old 04-24-2009, 10:12 AM   #126
Matt Monson
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No point for my car. I can't speak to the newest generation of NA heads like in your car, but for my car the SOHC Ej251 heads outflow Ej205 WRX heads in stock form. Furthermore, if you are going to go so far as to port the heads, that goes out the window as you can basically port them as much or as little as you want.

My heads are a "street" port job that weren't overdone on purpose. If it was a racecar and was going to live it's life constantly above 4500rpm I would have had them opened up even more. But I was looking to strike a balance with low end port velocity and top end flow. Furthermore, there really wasn't much point in going any further since the intake manifold becomes a restriction and if the heads significantly outflow the manifold you just don't see any gains but you to lose low end because of port velocity issues.

I got your PM, but haven't had a chance to reply. I spent about $4000 on everything power related. The nice thing is you can start slowly as you have money. It's not like a turbo car where if you buy a bigger turbo you've got to get injectors and a fuel pump at the same time. You can start with an exhaust. Then a couple of more paychecks later you can get an intake. Then down the road you can buy some cams. Then you can get a spare set of heads and have them ported. etc. That's what I did. Plus, as I mentioned in your other thread, you can OS tune the car for maximum gains and efficiency with every step along the path.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:27 PM   #127
bushwahkhan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
No point for my car. I can't speak to the newest generation of NA heads like in your car, but for my car the SOHC Ej251 heads outflow Ej205 WRX heads in stock form. Furthermore, if you are going to go so far as to port the heads, that goes out the window as you can basically port them as much or as little as you want.

My heads are a "street" port job that weren't overdone on purpose. If it was a racecar and was going to live it's life constantly above 4500rpm I would have had them opened up even more. But I was looking to strike a balance with low end port velocity and top end flow. Furthermore, there really wasn't much point in going any further since the intake manifold becomes a restriction and if the heads significantly outflow the manifold you just don't see any gains but you to lose low end because of port velocity issues.

I got your PM, but haven't had a chance to reply. I spent about $4000 on everything power related. The nice thing is you can start slowly as you have money. It's not like a turbo car where if you buy a bigger turbo you've got to get injectors and a fuel pump at the same time. You can start with an exhaust. Then a couple of more paychecks later you can get an intake. Then down the road you can buy some cams. Then you can get a spare set of heads and have them ported. etc. That's what I did. Plus, as I mentioned in your other thread, you can OS tune the car for maximum gains and efficiency with every step along the path.
Oh I gotcha. Im still kinda new to this and trying to learn. As far as the first thing I was looking at was actually an intake but would it matter which one you went with first? intake or exhaust? Also as far as performance it sounds like unported heads gives you better performance? or is that wrong? and the spare set of heads replaced the current ones you had? Also with cams deosn't the car come with single over head cam or are the tuning cams different? Sorry for my newbness :P thanks though you have been a help!

~Alex
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:01 PM   #128
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I love sleepers.

In all honesty, headers and intake + cams with a tune will give you that much power. I do know that the EJ253s do flow quite well, and have the ability to make a lot of power.

The newer exhaust sytems on the 06+ are pretty good too. Other than the substantial gains to be made from headers, the cat and down are not as restrictive as many would make it seem.

Although at some point you probably want to go HFC and 2.25 inch catback.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:22 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Charlie-III, who's on this board, but kind of quiet about his build, recently purchased Stage II heads from Cobb. He is under the impression that it's a set of heads that sat in stock for a long time and that they were just happy to move the inventory and they made him a really good deal. He tried to get the "spicy" cams and they told him they weren't an option. He had some other issues with the heads as well, but I am not to fond of vendor bashing, so won't get into it. Let's just leave it at there's no such thing as a spicy cam for DOHC heads anymore, at least through Cobb...
Bumping this as I was looking for something to help on my car (now that I finally got it running.)

What I have is:
Crawford rebuilt STi SB with ~10.6:1CR pistons
COBB DOHC P&P street heads (I believe the last ones ever sold)
COBB street cams
Grimmspeed intake spacers
COBB EL coated headers w/HFC
COBB CBE
Exedy 12LB flywheel & ACT street clutch
Stock 98 ECU, no piggyback (an issue I want to resolve, A-SFC?) & I don't really want to do a later ECU swap to go open source.

A few of us guess it's around 225CHP right now, I may get a dyno pull @ Akuma (in NJ) soon to baseline & then tune.

Since the car sat for a few years, I have been chasing the gremlins here & there.
The car pulls decent (but pig rich almost everywhere), it can run with an early fairly stock WRX & VW R32 (or was it a R33?). It is better than stock down low, but wakes up a bit @~2500RPM and then REALLY wakes up @~4200RPM.
I get around 21-22MPG around town and have done one highway run (fairly steady 75MPH) and was only pulling 23MPG. This is not as good as stock, but like I stated it's running stock electrics.

I think I will probably get a set of injectors sent out, serviced & matched. Then I need to find a good way to tune the AFR's but that will be another thread, just researching for now.

Last edited by Charlie-III; 09-22-2009 at 12:07 PM. Reason: Fixed the quoting of MM's post.
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Old 09-22-2009, 11:29 AM   #130
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i've got a pp6 that could give you a decent tuning tool to start with...

My build never got quite that far, but tuning it (after the pp6, i eventually went with a dyno-tuned reflash) really helped smooth it out.

the non-spicy cams are probably helping you a lot down low, my spicy cams (granted, they were sohc) didn't really open up till 4000+ rpm
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Old 09-22-2009, 12:27 PM   #131
Matt Monson
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Hi.
Funny to see this bumped. Charlie, have you considered a good old fashioned Apexi AFC? I think that's what Pat Olsen uses on his '98 GT. Your car shouldn't have any trouble with the learn around issues that the later ECUs did.

I've thought about putting mine on the '99 RS where the engine currently resides but it runs so well I don't want to mess with it.
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Old 09-22-2009, 02:09 PM   #132
Charlie-III
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Originally Posted by Matt Monson View Post
Hi.
Funny to see this bumped. Charlie, have you considered a good old fashioned Apexi AFC? I think that's what Pat Olsen uses on his '98 GT. Your car shouldn't have any trouble with the learn around issues that the later ECUs did.

I've thought about putting mine on the '99 RS where the engine currently resides but it runs so well I don't want to mess with it.
I haven't planned anything.....YET!
I'm just reading up, but a lot of the threads are older and there may be new stuff out, but the older items "may" have better support.

I'm guessing I will need some sort of EM (PP, S-AFC, Apexi, etc...) along with a wideband. Correct?

I have not seen where my ECU is supported by OS like Romraider.
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Old 09-22-2009, 04:35 PM   #133
Patrick Olsen
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I've used an S-AFC - not the really old school one, but the first generation of the blue LCD screen type. I actually had to buy a "new" used one recently, as mine had been stolen out of the car back in January when my house was broken into. Damned if those things don't still go for $200+ on Ebay! I finally got a "deal" on an auction and got it for like $160ish. Since my ECU harness had already been tapped for the 1st gen one I didn't want to bother "upgrading" to an S-AFC2.

I've always been curious just how the S-AFC impacts AFR in closed loop, but have never had the datalogging capability to find out. At WOT (open loop) it definitely helps - I can clearly see changes in the AFR from run to run on the dyno, and what I set during one dyno trip still seems to work just fine if I go back a couple/few months later.

I've also been curious how much better (if at all) a PP6 would be. I've just never been motivated enough to spend the money and find out.

Pat Olsen
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Old 09-23-2009, 09:47 AM   #134
Kevin Thomas
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I've used the really old Hyper SFC and the Apexi SAFC (Old school) with success on a 1997 2.2ltr Impreza. No issues to think of and the ECU did not learn around them. To note: the ECU I was using was a 1999 2.5ltr Legacy ECU. But still......


I know hat the SAFC Neo. Haven't had a chance to really test it out yet as I have one issue left to sort out (Speed Sensor). Seems that it was working ok though.
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Old 09-23-2009, 04:20 PM   #135
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If anyone needs a better ECU tune look no further than Crawford. I've been running an SRS-30 flash for quite some time and it runs great w/ the supporting mods.
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Old 09-23-2009, 04:24 PM   #136
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If anyone with a 1999 or newer Impreza needs a better ECU tune look no further than Crawford. I've been running an SRS-30 flash for quite some time and it runs great w/ the supporting mods.
Fixed it for you. No love for pre-99. Luckily, basic but completely suitable standalone systems are becoming more affordable.

Jay
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Old 09-23-2009, 07:55 PM   #137
Matt Monson
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If anyone needs a better ECU tune look no further than Crawford. I've been running an SRS-30 flash for quite some time and it runs great w/ the supporting mods.
While you are genuinely trying to be helpful, I'm guessing you didn't read the whole thread here? The problem there is that most of us have headwork. By headwork I mean they are ported, not just cams. That significantly changes the flow of the heads and I wouldn't trust my $4000 engine to an off the shelf reflash designed for a car with bolt ons plus cams. Bill and Quirt make great products but they're designed for a particular mold, which my car doesn't meet.

Furthermore, given my altitude, Bill would really only be comfortable with doing a flash for me if he came to Colorado and did it locally on one of our dynos. I think that was even discussed earlier in the thread.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:15 PM   #138
Matt Monson
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Bump...

I've been quiet for a while on NA stuff but I've got an update.


Guess it's time to come out of retirement and up the ante on what kind of power we can get out of an Ej251. More to follow in coming weeks...
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:19 PM   #139
williaty
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What did it? Old age, or something flamboyant?
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:55 PM   #140
Matt Monson
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Old age and treachery. There's 125k on the bottom end and it happened on track. It was so noisy at the end that I thought I had actually broken a rod. But when I got it apart i found all 4 rods intact and even the cylinder bores look pretty good. I largely blame it on the fact that these days I drive a '99 and it's got a horrible ECU and MAF combination that goes lean and crackles like nobody's business above 5800 rpm. To be perfectly honest, given the hammering those rod bearings took from the crappy factory tune, I never expected it to last as long as it did.

Thankfully the heads are fine and other than needing a full teardown, cleaning and reassembly, are going to be completely reusable.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:10 PM   #141
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Guess it's time to come out of retirement and up the ante on what kind of power we can get out of an Ej251. More to follow in coming weeks...
Awesome.
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