Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday July 23, 2014
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Home Registration is free! Visit the NASIOC Store NASIOC Rules Search Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Calendar Archive NASIOC Upgrade Garage Logout
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Normally Aspirated with bolt-on Forced Induction Powertrain

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-23-2004, 12:19 AM   #1
NeaD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43371
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Louis, MO
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS-T
Hydra User, Blue

Default Car will not start

Well, it was running a few days ago, till I started to mess with the EMS. (hydra) My friend put a blank map on the EMS, so I had to get the right map from Hydra. When I got that installed, still will not start.

I put new spark plugs in also because I thought the plugs went bad. Still didn't start.

I took a log of what the EMS said well I was tring to get it to start..

The only thing I can thing of is one of the valcum lines if not hooked up.

here is the log... Any ideas?

http://www.inactivity.org/jon/Data/wontstart_log.htm
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
NeaD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2004, 01:51 AM   #2
no-coast-punk
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 49087
Join Date: Nov 2003
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Inside your carnot cycle
Vehicle:
1998 RST V8 STi swap
'05 R6 '95 BMW V8 hotness

Default

Those injector pulsewidths are HIDEOUSLY long.... you shouldn't even be seeing pulsewidths that long under full boost WOT unless you have really huge injectors.
no-coast-punk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2004, 02:25 AM   #3
NeaD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43371
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Louis, MO
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS-T
Hydra User, Blue

Default

The thing is.. I tryed to start it using the stock injectors for now.. I have some 370cc injectors for the car.. (the map is for the 370cc's anyways. )

I guess ill try to install the injectors and see if it will start.

The f'd up thing is... I had a map for 550cc injectors on the ems when I first got it. It turned right on.. it was a really really bad tune.. but it turned on.
NeaD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2004, 04:41 AM   #4
kaos200
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2692
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: SoCal
Default

things to look at are your timing for startup (either it has a parameter, or check the map at the lowest RPM range under atmospheric pressure, and slightly below)
also check the cold start enrichments, the cranking enrichments, minimum injector on times. Try and see if anything is missing/ out of ordinary, not sure if you're familiar with the numbers, but try posting them up here if you need.
kaos200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2004, 07:19 AM   #5
inpreza kid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3334
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

injector pulse width is definitely high... check the coil pack to make sure its firing the spark plugs. also pull the plugs to see if you are getting fuel. even if its nasty rich it should still be able to fire up for a brief moment.
inpreza kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 06:59 PM   #6
NeaD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43371
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Louis, MO
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS-T
Hydra User, Blue

Default

I just bought a new coil pack, it's still not idlein.. it will turn over, that's about it.

NeaD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 07:23 PM   #7
phattyduck
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 32955
Join Date: Feb 2003
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Pasadena, CA
Vehicle:
'03 WRX Wagon
'89 3S-GTE Alltrac Camry

Default

Can you get it started with the stock ECU? If so, you can rule out 'hardware' issues with the motor. From there, you can start troubleshooting the Hydra (probably map related...)

Good luck.

-Charlie
phattyduck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 07:24 PM   #8
NeaD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43371
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Louis, MO
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS-T
Hydra User, Blue

Default

I tryed both the stock ecu and the hydra. it does the same thing.
NeaD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2004, 11:18 PM   #9
NeaD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43371
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Louis, MO
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS-T
Hydra User, Blue

Default



I hate not having a running car.
NeaD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2004, 09:20 PM   #10
munkis
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 1847
Join Date: Jul 2000
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: brokenmotorsports.com
Vehicle:
Team Broken: V6 GF
rallyarmor.com

Default

what did you do to the car between the time it started and now, just realoaded a different map?

did you change your injectors? Did you cross the wires by accident?

if it wont start with the stock ecu...you need to start looking at the basics...

fuel
air
spark
compression

Jay
munkis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 07:50 AM   #11
benjaminetanyahoo
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 41300
Join Date: Aug 2003
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: Midtown West (Lincoln Center)
Vehicle:
2000 New York
MTA

Default

Hydra's first casuality. A startup and kaboom. J/k, good luck, it's something obivious as mentioned before, gotta be if the stock ecu isn't starting it up either.
benjaminetanyahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 02:26 PM   #12
NeaD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43371
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Louis, MO
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS-T
Hydra User, Blue

Default

yeah.. i really dont think the hydra is the problem.
NeaD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 05:30 PM   #13
kaos200
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 2692
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: SoCal
Default

check your coils, they may be burnt out
kaos200 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2004, 05:33 PM   #14
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

he replaced coils...

I'm pulling this out of my butt... but maybe you mixed the injector plugs for the cylinders...
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-28-2004, 10:37 PM   #15
NeaD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 43371
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: St. Louis, MO
Vehicle:
1998 Impreza 2.5RS-T
Hydra User, Blue

Default

the car is getting no spark. new coil pack and the plug wires have a resistance of about 5.3someodd ohms... eveyrthing is pluged in. any ideas why it wouldnt get spark?
NeaD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 01:11 AM   #16
65 mustang
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 40682
Join Date: Jul 2003
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by NeaD
the car is getting no spark. new coil pack and the plug wires have a resistance of about 5.3someodd ohms... eveyrthing is pluged in. any ideas why it wouldnt get spark?
Wireing to coil pack
Coil pack
wireing to crank angle sensor
crank angle sensor
bad grounds


Did you try turning it over for 20 seconds so that it can find the crank? Charge your battery yet? Get a factory service manuel? I think it would be worth it even if the manuel is 100 bucks.
65 mustang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 10:56 AM   #17
Hitokiri
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2604
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CA
Vehicle:
1999 2.5RSt
RBP

Default

did the hydra burn out your coil pack?

did it run ok before you put on the hydra for the first time????

spark plugs ok?
Hitokiri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 11:59 AM   #18
Element Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

Unfortunately, your tuning is not even in the ballpark. The Hydra map that I received required 40+ hours to get dialed in but I expected this. You must understand the maps they provide are not "tuned" maps but just "base" maps to get the car started and running decently. When a Hydra is purchased through Element Tuning we will be providing “tuned” maps that will require minimal touch up and I just want to make this point clear. Engine management can only be as good as its tuner!

You have a long way to go but the first thing I noticed is your injector pulse width looks extremely high (I have no idea what your cranking enrichment looks like, post start enrichment, your IAT correction, or your coolant temp correction). Second, your knock threshold is set too low so the ecu is pulling -1.8 degrees of timing on start up. I honestly think you are over your head starting from a “base” map as it appears you lack basic knowledge in reading your data logs. I’m not knocking you; and many so called “professional” tuners cannot tune a stand-alone from scratch.

I suggest you start with the map they provided which got your car started. Getting it started is the hardest part! Once it’s running you can at least monitor AFR which will guide your tuning strategy. Obviously don't change the load sites or the related "starting" maps for now. You need to take tuning slowly and concentrate on one load site at a time until you start to see the "shape" of the 3D map. From that you can extrapolate the rest of the map so you’re in the ball park.

When I first received the base map from Hydra I knew exactly where I needed to make changes because I've been tuning Subarus for a long time. This is why Hydra and Element Tuning are a great fit. They make a spectacular product and we know how to tune it. The car started fine with the provided base map and that's where you should start.

Good luck!

Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 12:08 PM   #19
Element Tuning
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 54918
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: 673 WHP Element ProComp Engine
Default

This sounds obvious but did you check all of your fuses and relays?

I've seen a burnt out day time running light module cause days worth of head scratching. For some reason Subaru runs the ignition system through it so if it burns out the car will not get spark.

As someone stated get back to basics. If you have no spark you need to get a service manual and study the wiring diagrams and test everything between your ecu and your ignition coils. I know it’s not fun but you don’t have a choice at this point.

Good luck!

Phil
www.elementtuning.com
Element Tuning is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 12:24 PM   #20
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

Phil... a question.. will you have a generic how to on the hydra ? the one provided from the maker is..... ahem... a little light
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 02:09 PM   #21
inpreza kid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3334
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

i've seen some of the hydra base maps. they seem a bit rough. the hydra does not come with a air temp sensor... be sure to get one. the correction maps need a lot of work.

Last edited by inpreza kid; 06-29-2004 at 02:31 PM.
inpreza kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 03:53 PM   #22
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

my hydra came with an air temp sensor... where did you hear this?
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 04:05 PM   #23
inpreza kid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3334
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

oh really. didn't know that. i read it was a option on the hydra website awhile ago. good to hear it comes with the air temp sensor.
inpreza kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 04:09 PM   #24
HOK
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Oh Canada
Vehicle:
1999 EJ22T222B&EVO
Are we racing yet?

Default

i'm confused... but anyway

what air temps were you getting btw after the intercooler inpreza? were they close to ambient?
HOK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2004, 04:25 PM   #25
inpreza kid
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 3334
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Default

this is about what i get from the haltech datalog. a fairly hot summer day. it varies a bit with the weather.

27C to 29C cruising

max of 30C at high boost WOT

during lots of stop and go with heatsoak 32-33C

this is with a GM air temp sensor right before the throttle body.

edit: its fairly close to ambient in the summer time... few degrees higher depending on situation. i've noticed from the datalogs, in the winter time there is a fairly big difference. even day and night temps here in calgary can vary by as much as 20C in the summer time. it can throw your tune completely off. thats why you have to tune the air temp maps.

Last edited by inpreza kid; 06-29-2004 at 05:30 PM.
inpreza kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Car will NOT start....ok, sometimes...(kinda long) Drews_WRX Electrical & Lighting 7 11-24-2004 05:07 PM
Help me my car will not start!!!!! 4npower Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain 4 09-01-2003 11:36 AM
Car will not start!?! Bryan C Electrical & Lighting 6 08-01-2003 10:27 PM
car will not start after installing CAI? Solomon Legacy Forum 25 07-30-2003 10:38 AM
Car will not start, at Evanston for Repair Yotsuya Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 14 01-23-2001 11:34 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2014 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2014, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.