Car will not start

[NeaD]

Well, it was running a few days ago, till I started to mess with the EMS. (hydra) My friend put a blank map on the EMS, so I had to get the right map from Hydra. When I got that installed, still will not start.

I put new spark plugs in also because I thought the plugs went bad. Still didn't start.

I took a log of what the EMS said well I was tring to get it to start..

The only thing I can thing of is one of the valcum lines if not hooked up.

here is the log... Any ideas?

http://www.inactivity.org/jon/Data/wontstart_log.htm

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[no-coast-punk]

Those injector pulsewidths are HIDEOUSLY long.... you shouldn't even be seeing pulsewidths that long under full boost WOT unless you have really huge injectors.

[NeaD]

The thing is.. I tryed to start it using the stock injectors for now.. I have some 370cc injectors for the car.. (the map is for the 370cc's anyways. )

I guess ill try to install the injectors and see if it will start.

The f'd up thing is... I had a map for 550cc injectors on the ems when I first got it. It turned right on.. it was a really really bad tune.. but it turned on.

[kaos200]

things to look at are your timing for startup (either it has a parameter, or check the map at the lowest RPM range under atmospheric pressure, and slightly below)
also check the cold start enrichments, the cranking enrichments, minimum injector on times. Try and see if anything is missing/ out of ordinary, not sure if you're familiar with the numbers, but try posting them up here if you need.

[inpreza kid]

injector pulse width is definitely high... check the coil pack to make sure its firing the spark plugs. also pull the plugs to see if you are getting fuel. even if its nasty rich it should still be able to fire up for a brief moment.

[NeaD]

I just bought a new coil pack, it's still not idlein.. it will turn over, that's about it.

[phattyduck]

Can you get it started with the stock ECU? If so, you can rule out 'hardware' issues with the motor. From there, you can start troubleshooting the Hydra (probably map related...)

Good luck.

-Charlie

[NeaD]

I tryed both the stock ecu and the hydra. it does the same thing.

[NeaD]

I hate not having a running car.

[munkis]

what did you do to the car between the time it started and now, just realoaded a different map?

did you change your injectors? Did you cross the wires by accident?

if it wont start with the stock ecu...you need to start looking at the basics...

fuel
air
spark
compression

Jay

[benjaminetanyahoo]

Hydra's first casuality. A startup and kaboom. J/k, good luck, it's something obivious as mentioned before, gotta be if the stock ecu isn't starting it up either.

[NeaD]

yeah.. i really dont think the hydra is the problem.

[kaos200]

check your coils, they may be burnt out

[HOK]

he replaced coils...

I'm pulling this out of my butt... but maybe you mixed the injector plugs for the cylinders...

[NeaD]

the car is getting no spark. new coil pack and the plug wires have a resistance of about 5.3someodd ohms... eveyrthing is pluged in. any ideas why it wouldnt get spark?

[65 mustang]

Originally posted by NeaD
the car is getting no spark. new coil pack and the plug wires have a resistance of about 5.3someodd ohms... eveyrthing is pluged in. any ideas why it wouldnt get spark?

Wireing to coil pack
Coil pack
wireing to crank angle sensor
crank angle sensor
bad grounds


Did you try turning it over for 20 seconds so that it can find the crank? Charge your battery yet? Get a factory service manuel? I think it would be worth it even if the manuel is 100 bucks.

[Hitokiri]

did the hydra burn out your coil pack?

did it run ok before you put on the hydra for the first time????

spark plugs ok?

[Element Tuning]

Unfortunately, your tuning is not even in the ballpark. The Hydra map that I received required 40+ hours to get dialed in but I expected this. You must understand the maps they provide are not "tuned" maps but just "base" maps to get the car started and running decently. When a Hydra is purchased through Element Tuning we will be providing “tuned” maps that will require minimal touch up and I just want to make this point clear. Engine management can only be as good as its tuner!

You have a long way to go but the first thing I noticed is your injector pulse width looks extremely high (I have no idea what your cranking enrichment looks like, post start enrichment, your IAT correction, or your coolant temp correction). Second, your knock threshold is set too low so the ecu is pulling -1.8 degrees of timing on start up. I honestly think you are over your head starting from a “base” map as it appears you lack basic knowledge in reading your data logs. I’m not knocking you; and many so called “professional” tuners cannot tune a stand-alone from scratch.

I suggest you start with the map they provided which got your car started. Getting it started is the hardest part! Once it’s running you can at least monitor AFR which will guide your tuning strategy. Obviously don't change the load sites or the related "starting" maps for now. You need to take tuning slowly and concentrate on one load site at a time until you start to see the "shape" of the 3D map. From that you can extrapolate the rest of the map so you’re in the ball park.

When I first received the base map from Hydra I knew exactly where I needed to make changes because I've been tuning Subarus for a long time. This is why Hydra and Element Tuning are a great fit. They make a spectacular product and we know how to tune it. The car started fine with the provided base map and that's where you should start.

Good luck!

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

[Element Tuning]

This sounds obvious but did you check all of your fuses and relays?

I've seen a burnt out day time running light module cause days worth of head scratching. For some reason Subaru runs the ignition system through it so if it burns out the car will not get spark.

As someone stated get back to basics. If you have no spark you need to get a service manual and study the wiring diagrams and test everything between your ecu and your ignition coils. I know it’s not fun but you don’t have a choice at this point.

Good luck!

Phil
www.elementtuning.com

[HOK]

Phil... a question.. will you have a generic how to on the hydra ? the one provided from the maker is..... ahem... a little light

[inpreza kid]

i've seen some of the hydra base maps. they seem a bit rough. the hydra does not come with a air temp sensor... be sure to get one. the correction maps need a lot of work.

[HOK]

my hydra came with an air temp sensor... where did you hear this?

[inpreza kid]

oh really. didn't know that. i read it was a option on the hydra website awhile ago. good to hear it comes with the air temp sensor.

[HOK]

i'm confused... but anyway

what air temps were you getting btw after the intercooler inpreza? were they close to ambient?

[inpreza kid]

this is about what i get from the haltech datalog. a fairly hot summer day. it varies a bit with the weather.

27C to 29C cruising

max of 30C at high boost WOT

during lots of stop and go with heatsoak 32-33C

this is with a GM air temp sensor right before the throttle body.

edit: its fairly close to ambient in the summer time... few degrees higher depending on situation. i've noticed from the datalogs, in the winter time there is a fairly big difference. even day and night temps here in calgary can vary by as much as 20C in the summer time. it can throw your tune completely off. thats why you have to tune the air temp maps.