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Old 10-20-2010, 12:33 PM   #51
Maxwell Power
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http://www.maperformance.com/crawfor...aru-s0114.html
http://www.cosworthusa.com/store/pc/...&idproduct=364

What if i saved up to buy these? would the head and short block be able to connect correctly?
Yes, but that is a seriously expensive way to go. Not to mention the fact that so many of the cosworth heads blow out the exhaust port and ruin the head.
You can get equal performance and equal or better reliability out of one of our setups for a lot less. Not just mine either, there are a lot of other reputable builders out there who just don't have the cosworth name stamped on their product.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:15 PM   #52
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Alright...so should i be fine with getting a OEM EJ257 short block ($2000) with my 2004 RS Head (i will upgrade the valves and springs) and Turbo it with high boost?

Last edited by Powder61690; 10-20-2010 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:58 PM   #53
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Alright...so should i be fine with getting a OEM EJ257 short block ($2000) with my 2004 RS Head (i will upgrade the valves and springs) and Turbo it with high boost?

now you're just ****ing with me right?
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Old 10-20-2010, 10:00 PM   #54
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Use an EJ255 block out of an 06-09 WRX. That is the right one. The EJ257 block won't be good for what you're doing.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Old 10-20-2010, 11:01 PM   #55
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but y go with the lower compression??? 9.4 isnt all that high and will net more power with less boost...plus with the internals being stronger i dont see y the 255 is a better option....

and for the record, not trying to discredit, or disrespect u in any way, just looking to understand the recommendation.
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Old 10-21-2010, 08:34 AM   #56
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Alright..im sorry about what i said above. i kinda forgot about it when i was reading the other posts. So i found some websites with items on them and i think im going to just build the motor piece by piece because im currently in an automotive class and they said i can build it there. So if i could have your opinion on the current Items please.
This will probably be my last post on this topic and i would like your real opinion.

In this LINK it says im able to get Either the 255 or 257, but im getting the 255...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...d=200495317877

This LINK i will buy the crank, rods, bearings, pistons all seperate. Forged/billet of course.

http://www.bigvalleyperformance.com/...%7D-STi/Engine
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Old 10-21-2010, 01:36 PM   #57
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but y go with the lower compression??? 9.4 isnt all that high and will net more power with less boost...plus with the internals being stronger i dont see y the 255 is a better option....

and for the record, not trying to discredit, or disrespect u in any way, just looking to understand the recommendation.
Subaru engines have some major design flaws that limit the kind of power they can make. The biggest issue being the short stroke and short connecting rods. The short stroke combined with the short rods requires a lot of timing to get close to MBT as the piston travels very fast through TDC and well past the crank angle required for good power. The fast movement of the piston as it approaches TDC adds energy very rapidly to the charge. Combining that with the extra timing required to reach MBT results in an engine that is very close to the knock threshold at all times. Adding boost and low octane fuel to a Subaru engine at 9.4:1 compression will most certainly result in a lot of knock or timing that is so retarded that you won't make good power as RPM's increase. Keeping the compression ratio lower reduces the amount of energy added at TDC by the faster piston travel. This allows you to utilize more timing and actually make power across the power band.

If you plan on running e85, race gas or use a water/meth injection system then you can do pretty well on 9.4:1. However, the difference in efficiency from 8.5 to 9:1 when adding boost isn't very big. The difference is more noticeable if you stay N/A. The difference in knock threshold from 8.5 to 9:1 when adding boost IS noticeable.

To address the design flaws I made the 2.34L engine. The design of this engine slows the piston at TDC and results in a much happier engine that makes amazing power for it's smaller displacement.

I don't understand why people insist on wanting to run the EJ257. Is it just so you can say "I have an STi block" ????

The blocks are identical in all ways except the size of the dish on the pistons. They look identical from the outside. If you get the EJ255, just tell people you have the STi block if it makes you feel better.
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Old 10-21-2010, 02:51 PM   #58
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Sooo...with the LINK above for me trying to turbo my motor if i buy the empty block for $1000 ((since the 255 and 257 have the same block but just different pistons)). I Buy all the forged parts like crankshaft, rods, pistons and just make sure i get the WRX pistons instead of the STI ones since they have a different dish on them. Then attatch the built short block to my 04 RS SOHC head with upgraded valves and springs with my RS intake manifold ((Since i heard the RS manifold has good air flow through it)).

Would this set-up be acceptable to you?
AND
Should i invest in a DOHC WRX head?
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Old 10-21-2010, 04:59 PM   #59
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What type of engine management are you going to be running?

Head selection depends greatly on which EMS you are using because different heads have different cam triggers.

If you are sticking with oem ecu with a piggy back for tuning then you're going to want to stick with the SOHC heads for simplicity. The 2.5 heads make gobs of torque and are a lot of fun. They weigh less and have less rotational friction that any of the DOHC heads. For these reasons you get better gas mileage on the highway combined with your amazing torque and power under 6500rpm.

If you are going full forged internals, then something in the 22cc-24cc dish range on the piston would be good for what you are doing with the 51cc SOHC head.
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:27 PM   #60
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Subaru engines have some major design flaws that limit the kind of power they can make. The biggest issue being the short stroke and short connecting rods. The short stroke combined with the short rods requires a lot of timing to get close to MBT as the piston travels very fast through TDC and well past the crank angle required for good power. The fast movement of the piston as it approaches TDC adds energy very rapidly to the charge. Combining that with the extra timing required to reach MBT results in an engine that is very close to the knock threshold at all times. Adding boost and low octane fuel to a Subaru engine at 9.4:1 compression will most certainly result in a lot of knock or timing that is so retarded that you won't make good power as RPM's increase. Keeping the compression ratio lower reduces the amount of energy added at TDC by the faster piston travel. This allows you to utilize more timing and actually make power across the power band.

If you plan on running e85, race gas or use a water/meth injection system then you can do pretty well on 9.4:1. However, the difference in efficiency from 8.5 to 9:1 when adding boost isn't very big. The difference is more noticeable if you stay N/A. The difference in knock threshold from 8.5 to 9:1 when adding boost IS noticeable.

To address the design flaws I made the 2.34L engine. The design of this engine slows the piston at TDC and results in a much happier engine that makes amazing power for it's smaller displacement.

I don't understand why people insist on wanting to run the EJ257. Is it just so you can say "I have an STi block" ????

The blocks are identical in all ways except the size of the dish on the pistons. They look identical from the outside. If you get the EJ255, just tell people you have the STi block if it makes you feel better.
aaahhhhh see i didnt know all that lol all i ever hear in all the threads ive read is that the 257 is stronger and better...no to many ppl have talked about the 255 in the case of hybriding...thank you very much, i am going to have to reconsider my block choice now lol
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Old 10-21-2010, 11:31 PM   #61
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now...if i missed it just tell me to go back....but lets cover this whole valve float thing...maybe we can get this as a sticky and have everything u need to know in it lol

ive read that 6K 8psi is where they begin to float...but that doenst really mean muych to me just like the 251 block can only hold 6psi...on what turbo??? i saw a guy on rs25 club claiming 8psi and not short term from what i gathered...hes on a tdo4 though...i however have an 18g so i probably shouldnt try it...would that be a good assesment?? i do plan on getting valves right away anything..but just curious on this topic cause ppl are always putting out numbers but they usually seem te be incomplete assessments...
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:41 AM   #62
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Im not so sure about which EMS i should use. Im kinda dumb when it come to choosing the right things to combined together as you can probably tell with all my other dumb posts i previously made. So if i could have your opinion on what i should use i'll do it as long as it's not tooo crazy of a price to do. I wish to keep the RS SOHC and intake manifold. So if you have any ideas that could help me out thatd be Great.

Also i was considering the J&S safe guard just because i have heard good things about them and how they can save me from getting knocks in my motor.

Oh and also im not sure i can find any pistons with 22-24 cc dish on them. Not sure what i should type to search for them. All i find are high cc's like 40-51.

Last edited by Powder61690; 10-22-2010 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 10-22-2010, 12:50 PM   #63
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now...if i missed it just tell me to go back....but lets cover this whole valve float thing...maybe we can get this as a sticky and have everything u need to know in it lol

ive read that 6K 8psi is where they begin to float...but that doenst really mean muych to me just like the 251 block can only hold 6psi...on what turbo??? i saw a guy on rs25 club claiming 8psi and not short term from what i gathered...hes on a tdo4 though...i however have an 18g so i probably shouldnt try it...would that be a good assesment?? i do plan on getting valves right away anything..but just curious on this topic cause ppl are always putting out numbers but they usually seem te be incomplete assessments...
I ran over 10psi on my stock 251 bottom end for a long time. You just have to have the proper valve springs and fuel to do so.


After I swapped out the pistons and rods for strong, forged lower compression ones I was running 24psi on the 251 case. It did end up breaking after 3 years, however. The cylinder broke in half. I was making 408 to the wheels on a mustang dyno.

I would NEVER recommend a tdo4 turbo on a high compression 2.5L. The small turbine housing results in a lot of backpressure that limits scavenging and can pollute the cylinder with exhaust gasses which cause excessive heat in the cylinders and can cause knock under even low boost levels. The proper turbo for this type of application would have a larger turbine housing (like a tdo6 or an 8cm2 tod5 at the SMALLEST). This is why T3/T4 turbos are so effective even at low boost. They allow for scavenge flow to help cool and clean the cylinders during valve overlap.

Power isn't the main cause of engine damage, knock is. You can make an unsafe 250hp and a safe 300 very easily.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder61690 View Post
Im not so sure about which EMS i should use. Im kinda dumb when it come to choosing the right things to combined together as you can probably tell with all my other dumb posts i previously made. So if i could have your opinion on what i should use i'll do it as long as it's not tooo crazy of a price to do. I wish to keep the RS SOHC and intake manifold. So if you have any ideas that could help me out thatd be Great.

Also i was considering the J&S safe guard just because i have heard good things about them and how they can save me from getting knocks in my motor.

Oh and also im not sure i can find any pistons with 22-24 cc dish on them. Not sure what i should type to search for them. All i find are high cc's like 40-51.
Looks to me like you are reading the head cc's and not the piston dish cc. Subaru heads range from 46.6cc to 58cc. SOHC EJ251 is 51cc. A piston dish of 18-24 gives you a compression from 8.5 to 8.0:1. JE offers a piston with an 18cc chamber (8.5:1) to match your heads. However, you are going to need to buy the right rod as the piston is designed for a longer rod than the STi/WRX. They are easy to find if you know what you are looking for.

If you want to give us a call, I can get you the right parts. I have turbo'd many 2.5RSs.

For EMS, there are many options. Which way you go depends on how much power you want to make and what your emissions requirements are in your state/city.
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:38 PM   #64
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so if i were to slap on my 18g and run wastegate press (should be 8psi) would i end up floating valves or would i be ok?? i have a LINK+ and some modded STi injectors that are rated to 816cc (want to get them checked to be sure though) and a walbro so im good on fuel and ecm...but i was gunna hold off as like i stated before i was told to stay away from anything over 6psi...then i heard about the valves floating and such.... but if ill be safe i might just thorw her together with boost now n get the block later and run her till she blows...lol
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Old 10-22-2010, 03:43 PM   #65
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it'll be close.
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Old 10-23-2010, 10:08 AM   #66
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Old 10-23-2010, 02:54 PM   #67
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Those rods are a great choice.

Those pistons have been changed. The part number is different, the specs are the same, but the forging has been VASTLY improved. I don't think JE has the new part number assigned yet. It should be available in the next week or so. I work with JE regularly. If BV has the old design in stock, you could get them. However, I recommend the new design. The new design is capable of over 1000hp. The old design has some flaws.
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Old 10-25-2010, 04:00 AM   #68
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would all the info also apply for an 06 impreza? (with an ej253 motor) i also wanna turbo my impreza
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Old 10-25-2010, 05:41 PM   #69
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not exactly. Your heads are VERY different. They have no quench pad whatsoever and the piston has a very custom dome shape to it.

For you, a custom set of pistons and STi rods would be required if you want to lower the compression and increase the strength of the bottom end.
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Old 10-27-2010, 12:51 AM   #70
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Ok i have some questions. The newer 06-up imprezas really havent been covered a whole awful lot. I am building and turbo'ing my 2007 2.5i, the car is in the garage and my n/a exhaust and all is gone so my project is in full effect. But there are some things i cannot get straight answers on and it seems like this is the thread i needed to be in all along.

Ok, first off. I am planning on picking up this ej257 from an 08 sti, it is just the bare block, no internals. I plan on eagle connecting rods, JE 8.5:1CR forged pistons, ACL race bearings and of course all the other bearings included in a shortblock. So with this built block, would my SOHC heads work fine after upgrading the cams, and valvetrain? Will my intake manifold fit with no problem? My main concern is that everything bolts up to this ej257 with no problems and my wiring harness will work fine. (bc the garage that is doing my build told me that i will need a new wiring harness?????)

I have an accessport for tuning/management purposes and will be running 93 octane fuel. The turbo kit i am using is the perrin gt30r rotated mount(which comes with everything, fmic, uppipe, downpipe, top feed fuel rails, fuel pump, all hardware needed, electronic boost controller, and yea you get the point, everything i need except a catback)

So after reading all this, just to sum it up and simplify it, will a built ej257 work with my heads and all other relating parts, and what else am i going to have to worry about modifying to make this work?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and help me, i want to start buying parts but first off want to make sure i am going down the right path.
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:33 AM   #71
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i would second guess the jpb that is doing your build if they think that you need a new wiring harness to turbocharge an 05+ impreza
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:34 AM   #72
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no actually its a very reputible shop called Agile Auto, all they do is subarus. But i called them yesterday about my build and they said they have never attempted a project like that and dont know if they are willing to do so, bc of a few diff reasons, one including the wiring harness.

BUMP my last message!
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:40 PM   #73
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You dont want the SOHC heads from your 2.5i

Get WRX or STi DOHC heads. If you do this then Agile will most likely not have an issue. You still will need a DOHC harness from whatever motor the heads cam from. I believe your stock harness that comes out of the fender that connects to the motor harness should plug into the new harness ( as long as its close to the your year ) , but it will have to get repined and a few wires added most likely.

If you where to stay with your stock SOHC heads you should go stand alone EM. Also you will have quite a hard time finding upgraded valve train bits to wind the thing out to 7k+ In addition to that the SOHC heads dont flow very well if you are going to be putting a 30r on there.

I have delt with Agile and Hill and they should tell you basically what I just said.
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Old 10-27-2010, 01:55 PM   #74
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Ok i have some questions. The newer 06-up imprezas really havent been covered a whole awful lot. I am building and turbo'ing my 2007 2.5i, the car is in the garage and my n/a exhaust and all is gone so my project is in full effect. But there are some things i cannot get straight answers on and it seems like this is the thread i needed to be in all along.

Ok, first off. I am planning on picking up this ej257 from an 08 sti, it is just the bare block, no internals. I plan on eagle connecting rods, JE 8.5:1CR forged pistons, ACL race bearings and of course all the other bearings included in a shortblock. So with this built block, would my SOHC heads work fine after upgrading the cams, and valvetrain? Will my intake manifold fit with no problem? My main concern is that everything bolts up to this ej257 with no problems and my wiring harness will work fine. (bc the garage that is doing my build told me that i will need a new wiring harness?????)

I have an accessport for tuning/management purposes and will be running 93 octane fuel. The turbo kit i am using is the perrin gt30r rotated mount(which comes with everything, fmic, uppipe, downpipe, top feed fuel rails, fuel pump, all hardware needed, electronic boost controller, and yea you get the point, everything i need except a catback)

So after reading all this, just to sum it up and simplify it, will a built ej257 work with my heads and all other relating parts, and what else am i going to have to worry about modifying to make this work?

Thanks for taking the time to read this and help me, i want to start buying parts but first off want to make sure i am going down the right path.
No you don't switch wiring for a block swap. That's a serious lack of knowledge on someone's part or a serious misunderstanding on yours.

As I stated earlier, the 2.5i head is very different in combustion chamber shape and design. Putting in regular EJ257 pistons will result in ZERO quench. The pistons for those heads need to be custom for a daily driver.

Sounds like you have a long list of parts that won't fit your car. For example, a Perrin rotated kit won't even come close to fitting your car without at LEAST a turbo crossmember. Even then, you are going to need to do some custom fabbing to get it to fit properly.

If you switch to DOHC heads, you will have to change a lot of stuff. This could lead to wiring harness changes, ecu changes, manifold changes etc. Sticking with the SOHC head and your OEM manifold will save you all those headaches. With the AP, there's no reason why you couldn't tune this thing with the factory ecu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by olsen726 View Post
i would second guess the jpb that is doing your build if they think that you need a new wiring harness to turbocharge an 05+ impreza
I would agree. However, Agile is a pretty good shop. It could have been a simple misunderstanding between the OP and the shop.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerousatom View Post
You dont want the SOHC heads from your 2.5i

Get WRX or STi DOHC heads. If you do this then Agile will most likely not have an issue. You still will need a DOHC harness from whatever motor the heads cam from. I believe your stock harness that comes out of the fender that connects to the motor harness should plug into the new harness ( as long as its close to the your year ) , but it will have to get repined and a few wires added most likely.

If you where to stay with your stock SOHC heads you should go stand alone EM. Also you will have quite a hard time finding upgraded valve train bits to wind the thing out to 7k+ In addition to that the SOHC heads dont flow very well if you are going to be putting a 30r on there.

I have delt with Agile and Hill and they should tell you basically what I just said.
I doubt you know exactly what this guy "wants". The SOHC heads can make a ton of torque and real good power (is 530ftlbs of torque and 470whp enough?).

It's worth it to save yourself the wiring disaster when switching engines. Especially since the 07 2.5i has the ability to be tuned via AP and OS. He doesn't "need" a standalone.
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Old 10-27-2010, 02:30 PM   #75
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So what would you suggest i do? Im in a pickle here. I was set on the ej257 but dont quite understand what it is i need to do with my heads for it to work. A thicker head gasket wouldnt help this issue at all?
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