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Old 07-26-2004, 10:59 PM   #1
D_REX
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I've been running the Koni / Ground Control setup for a little while now. I even spent the money on the Ground Control camber / caster top mounted plates in anticipation of a stroke issue. Most WRXs with coilovers sleeves over stock style struts experience this even with only moderate reductions in ride height. So one day I started thinking about solutions to my problem without going to a true coilover setup.
-I could send my inserts out to be shortened by one of the many Koni rebuild Centers.
-I could move the mounting ears higher up on the strut housing.
-I could Drill new mounting holes in the existing bracket.
-I could move the insert farther down into the strut housing.

This last option really appealed to me. It was virtually free, represented very low risk, and was easy to do. Next I called Koni USA to get their input, they had been very helpfull in the past. A couple of the guys there discussed it and couldn't come up with any issues but warned that any non standard mounting would void my warranty. This was totally understandable and acceptable. Next I took some dimensions and went to work.

First I opened up the botom of a strut housing:


The lower cap on the strut housing is welded around it's periphery. This weld will make a very nice "seat" for the bottom of the insert. I basically just trimmed the cap back to the edge of the weld. This makes a hole about 1.375" in diameter and leaves the Koni's mounting "nub" hanging out:

The housing must also be trimmed in length to allow the insert to fully seat, do not let the insert seat by it's cap.
Now A spacer has to be fabricated to retain the insert:

It's also best to grind the lip of the opening you made in the strut housing so that the spacer will sit flat.
Next you bolt the insert back into the housing using the spacer:

Finally put the assembly back on the car and verify proper clearance:

I've got a little more than 0.2" of clearance at full droop and it only gets better with compression.

An illustration I made to show how things fit together:


I hope this helps someone out there.

Later,
Dustin
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Last edited by ButtDyno; 11-13-2008 at 07:31 AM. Reason: pointed at flickr pictures
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Old 07-26-2004, 11:19 PM   #2
supermarkus
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clever
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Old 07-27-2004, 04:25 AM   #3
Patrick Olsen
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Wow, that is a pretty damn clever idea. Not sure I'm up to that much work at this point, but I may consider doing something like that in the future.

Do you have the dimensions for the spacers you used? What material are they, and where did you have them made?

Thanks,
Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
Konis, GCs, and not much bump travel up front...
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Old 07-27-2004, 07:33 AM   #4
D_REX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Olsen
Do you have the dimensions for the spacers you used? What material are they, and where did you have them made?
I do have dimensions for the spacer. If you want to make your own just let me know and I'll help you out. These are made from 6061 Aluminum. I had them made as a favor to me. Having a machine shop make 2 of these is just not going to make sense. If enough people are interested I will see about making a production run of these spacers and selling them.

Later,
Dustin
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Old 07-27-2004, 09:36 AM   #5
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That is mad tight yo! It looks pretty clean. Anodized black, it would look factory.
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:06 AM   #6
Cosworth
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Dustin, do you have a value for how much lower (aka bump gained) drooping the insert gained you? Must be at least an inch? That's pretty significant! You might actually be able to have more bump travel than coil bind travel!
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Old 07-27-2004, 11:28 AM   #7
D_REX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosworth
Dustin, do you have a value for how much lower (aka bump gained) drooping the insert gained you? Must be at least an inch? That's pretty significant! You might actually be able to have more bump travel than coil bind travel!
It's just a tad bit more than an inch. The Bump stroke is now right at coil bind. The 8" 340 lb./in springs should bind at about 4.75". They are statically compressed by about 2.75". That leaves 2" of compression for bump stroke. It should all happen at about the same point. I do still have a portion of a bump stop in there, hopefully things won't be too violent if it does bottom out Worse case I have to relocate the sleeves a little lower to accomidate 10" springs

Later,
Dustin
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Old 07-27-2004, 04:50 PM   #8
Cosworth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_REX
Worse case I have to relocate the sleeves a little lower to accomidate 10" springs

Later,
Dustin

Look out for the tire then... don't want to shred it on the perch if you go too low.
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Old 07-27-2004, 05:23 PM   #9
D_REX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosworth
Look out for the tire then... don't want to shred it on the perch if you go too low.
Good point. I really don't think it'll come to that. Maybe if I come up with a revolutionary design for the caster / camber plates I can move the upper spring perch up high enough that I can comfortably run 10" springs. I wouldn't count on it though.

In all honestly if I reach coil bind I'll probably just put more bump stop in there.

Thanks,
Dustin
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Old 07-27-2004, 06:24 PM   #10
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That's pretty trick! I was just thinking about a way of doing that, looks like you beat me to it. Have you looked at what the suspension geometry does with that much bump? My only concern would be that the camber curve is really going to **** right there, and you might get some considerable bump steer from toe change, too.

I'll probably still end up doing something similar.. sure would be nice to have a bit more travel.
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Old 07-27-2004, 07:20 PM   #11
D_REX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by remowgn
That's pretty trick! I was just thinking about a way of doing that, looks like you beat me to it. Have you looked at what the suspension geometry does with that much bump? My only concern would be that the camber curve is really going to **** right there, and you might get some considerable bump steer from toe change, too.
You're right about all that but that's more a function of ride height than anything else. Take a set of JICs, set the car to the same ride height and you will have the same geometry problems. The only way around it is to raise the car.

Later,
Dustin
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Old 07-28-2004, 03:35 PM   #12
D_REX
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bump
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Old 07-28-2004, 03:55 PM   #13
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Very Nice. Some day I plan to do inserts, but hated how limited the travel was. this is a good workaround.

Ron
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Old 09-07-2004, 11:26 PM   #14
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Hey,
Can you post up the full dimensions for those? Or even better a cad drawing for what you had?

Thanks

--------------------
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Old 09-08-2004, 12:33 AM   #15
SgWRX
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hi, sorry for the question but, what's the "issue" that you fixed here? is it a dramatic reduction in suspension travel? could you elaborate for me? thanks!
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Old 09-08-2004, 01:13 AM   #16
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Basically, what he has done is lengthened the bump (compression) stroke of the strut. If you think about it, the Koni insert has less compression stroke than the stock strut because the insert has to fit inside the stock strut housing. Then, using the coilover sleeves creates a further reduction in compression stroke, particularly when lowered below stock level. And to top it off, the camber/caster plates further reduce the compression stroke because you have to lower the height of the coilover sleeves to make up the difference in the height of the top plate. Say, for instance, the top plate is 1/2" thick (I am not sure on specific numbers, this is just an example.) This means that you will have to lower the ride height of the spring collar an additional 1/2" to make up for the height of the plate. When you lower the spring collar, you will move the piston further down in the stroke, but you will not be lowering the strut. So let's say you want a 1-1/2" drop in ride height. To acheive this, you will actually have to lower the spring collar 2" (1-1/2" for the desired drop, plus the 1/2" for the plate) which will result in the piston stroke being lowered by 2". This means that the compression stroke of the strut is now 2" shorter than it was designed to be and the bump stop will come 2" faster than stock. By lowering the strut body of the Koni insert further into the strut housing, Dustin has helped gain back some of the compression stroke lost from the three things I have mentioned
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Old 09-08-2004, 08:38 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stott
Hey,
Can you post up the full dimensions for those? Or even better a cad drawing for what you had?

Thanks

--------------------
http://www.stifiles.com
Anyone looking to do this mod should PM me directly

Last edited by D_REX; 09-08-2004 at 08:44 AM.
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Old 09-08-2004, 08:42 AM   #18
D_REX
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This explanation is pretty much correct with one exception. I do not beleive the Koni inserts inherently have less bump travel than the stock struts. If there is less travel (I havent measured a stock strut, I can if anybody would like that data) it's lost in rebound not bump.

Later,
Dustin

Quote:
Originally Posted by strohk
Basically, what he has done is lengthened the bump (compression) stroke of the strut. If you think about it, the Koni insert has less compression stroke than the stock strut because the insert has to fit inside the stock strut housing. Then, using the coilover sleeves creates a further reduction in compression stroke, particularly when lowered below stock level. And to top it off, the camber/caster plates further reduce the compression stroke because you have to lower the height of the coilover sleeves to make up the difference in the height of the top plate. Say, for instance, the top plate is 1/2" thick (I am not sure on specific numbers, this is just an example.) This means that you will have to lower the ride height of the spring collar an additional 1/2" to make up for the height of the plate. When you lower the spring collar, you will move the piston further down in the stroke, but you will not be lowering the strut. So let's say you want a 1-1/2" drop in ride height. To acheive this, you will actually have to lower the spring collar 2" (1-1/2" for the desired drop, plus the 1/2" for the plate) which will result in the piston stroke being lowered by 2". This means that the compression stroke of the strut is now 2" shorter than it was designed to be and the bump stop will come 2" faster than stock. By lowering the strut body of the Koni insert further into the strut housing, Dustin has helped gain back some of the compression stroke lost from the three things I have mentioned
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Old 09-08-2004, 08:44 AM   #19
D_REX
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I've drawn a little picture to clarify any confusion over how the insert mounts to the housing with these spacers.


Later,
Dustin
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Old 09-08-2004, 09:31 AM   #20
SgWRX
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thanks!
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Old 09-20-2004, 11:58 AM   #21
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I happen to be one of the first people to have installed D_rex's extensions and I am very pleased with them. THe install process is relatively easy, took me about 1.5 hours, and the product is top notch. Upon driving I noticed that large bumps that used to make my car bounce a bit do not anymore. I have more control over the car on rough roads and have gotten rid of the "Honda" ride. Overall I really like them and think they are a must have for any Koni insert owner who is lowered. For only $45 they were well worth the investment.

Tony
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:08 PM   #22
D_REX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subieworx
I happen to be one of the first people to have installed D_rex's extensions and I am very pleased with them. THe install process is relatively easy, took me about 1.5 hours, and the product is top notch. Upon driving I noticed that large bumps that used to make my car bounce a bit do not anymore. I have more control over the car on rough roads and have gotten rid of the "Honda" ride. Overall I really like them and think they are a must have for any Koni insert owner who is lowered. For only $45 they were well worth the investment.

Tony
Thanks for the kind words Tony

Tony forgot to mention that he also lowered his car 1/2" after the installation. Pretty cool that he was able to lower his car AND improve his ride quality

Thanks,
Dustin
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Old 09-20-2004, 12:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_REX
Thanks for the kind words Tony

Tony forgot to mention that he also lowered his car 1/2" after the installation. Pretty cool that he was able to lower his car AND improve his ride quality

Thanks,
Dustin
Yeah, forgot about that. I am sitting at 13.75" from axle to fender with a superb ride quality that others who have ridden in my car comment on. It still has all the cornering ability it had before installtion with a less harsh and more controled ride.
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Old 09-21-2004, 05:54 PM   #24
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so im a little iffy about this whole thing.
basically, you loweed the housing to be able to run longer springs, which, in effec,would increase suspension travel and reduce the chance for coil binding, correct?
sorry i am kind of lost, and i am trying to find out why you did this, and how it helps.
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Old 09-21-2004, 07:18 PM   #25
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Smile my impressions....

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorifto88
so im a little iffy about this whole thing.
basically, you loweed the housing to be able to run longer springs, which, in effec,would increase suspension travel and reduce the chance for coil binding, correct?
sorry i am kind of lost, and i am trying to find out why you did this, and how it helps.
Well, I can speak from experience on how much better this makes the whole Koni/GC setup.

Here's my set-up:

Koni single adjustables all around
Ground Control coilovers - 325lb Front/300lb Rear springs
Noltec Street Camber/Castor plates

To answer the above question, I think that the main reason to make this modification is to avoid hitting the bumpstops (which was my main problem). I can't really comment on coil bind, but for more travel, it is great. Completely transformed the car IMO.

Here's why:

The Noltec plates caused me to have to run shorter springs in the front due to the under-mount positioning of the plates. That eats up 3/4" of shock travel alone, I was only able to run 7" springs in the front. I hit the bumpstops REPEATEDLY before making this change. Since the change, I have had ZERO encounters with the bumpstops. Zero.

This modification has gotten me considering higher spring rates for better performance on the autox courses for next year. A month ago I couldn't WAIT to put on the stock struts and springs for winter to save my teeth from chipping, but now I am probably going to find a way to keep the Koni/GC suspension on all year round.

MAIN reason(s) to do this:

1) Gain shock travel if you are lacking (camber/castor plates)
2) Make your shocks do the work rather than the springs
3) More comfortable ride!

It is a great product and I'm glad my co-driver found 'em and D_REX did the work!

Hope this helps...

C.
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