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Old 12-08-2010, 03:41 PM   #401
02RexWI
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^Read above, that system will make you run at wastegate pressure
I'm done trying to help
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:35 PM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike96 View Post
That said, as I have my boost control set up I donít see why it wonít work.
well hey, give your plan a shot! tell us how it works out. there's nothing like empirical evidence.

if you can, take a log and post it up.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:46 PM   #403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike96 View Post
.but then again if that were to happen then it would be no different than running with a MBC only...
then why bother.....the whole point of using this setup is to retain boost cut with a mbc......
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:11 AM   #404
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this is embarrassing. the setup seems so simple... but I can't get a "boost clamp" out of it, all I get is skyrocketing boost.

1. I've verified that my Grimmspeed EBCS works properly (it's what i was using first, and boost is controlled well)

2. I've verified that my Hallmann MBC works properly, though it seems extremely sensitive to temperature changes. some days I'm hitting 16 psi rock solid, and then that evening I'm at 19 psi, again, rock solid. On very cold mornings It wildly overboosts to 23 - 24 psi before i get my foot out of it. This could signify some problem with my wastegate or my MBC that I am unaware of, if you think so please chime in.

3. running strictly wastegate pressure gets me a boost curve that gradually climbs with rpms up to about 15 psi (indicated on my gauge. this gauge seems to "see" 21 psi when I'm at 19, so is seems inside what i would expect for the wg pressure)

I started with my EBCS hooked up. When I bring in the MBC, I take my line from the turbo outlet, insert a tee, and run that to the inlet of the mbc. I take the line to my wastegate, insert a tee, and run that to the outlet of my MBC.

And then I overboost like mad once I program in the WGDC of 95 to the 50% and above throttle. I set boost targets to ultra high, and set "max wgdc" to 95.

It seems simple, I don't know what I'm missing.
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Old 01-12-2011, 09:24 AM   #405
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Make a Diagram of how u have it hooked up....kinda sounds like ur mbc is messed up.
My hallman is solid in 20* up to 120*
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:20 PM   #406
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:28 PM   #407
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^You should mark with ports you have going to the wastegate actuator and turbo inlet off of the 3 port solenoid.
Also, it may help if you plug the bleed hole in the MBC, its not needed since you've got the 3 port in there.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:30 PM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 02RexWI View Post
^You should mark with ports you have going to the wastegate actuator and turbo inlet off of the 3 port solenoid.
Also, it may help if you plug the bleed hole in the MBC, its not needed since you've got the 3 port in there.
I did, the wastegate actuator is labeled "WG". I didn't plug the hole, they supplied a nipple without one, though. I read conflicting results with changing that configuration in this thread, so i didn't change the MBC config.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:39 PM   #409
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he meant label the GS ports 1,2,3
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:43 PM   #410
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I don't know if I am jumping into this too late but our BCS are labeled with 3 being the middle, 1 being the top/right port and 2 being the left/bottom port.

Will
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:44 PM   #411
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
he meant label the GS ports 1,2,3
Ahh gotcha.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrimmSpeed View Post
I don't know if I am jumping into this too late but our BCS are labeled with 3 being the middle, 1 being the top/right port and 2 being the left/bottom port.

Will
Thanks Will. Fleadog posted a great picture of it earlier in this thread:
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:01 PM   #412
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int wg?
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:03 PM   #413
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int wg?
Yessir.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:11 PM   #414
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it looks correct to me.

have you loosened the hallman all the way? and you're still overboosting?
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:15 PM   #415
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yes, that's correct. changes to the hallman had no effect on the overboosting. I think I'll swap the nipple on the hallman for the one without a bleed hole and try that..
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:22 PM   #416
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maybe try opening up the hallman and making sure the ball/spring isnt stuck.

try running at WG pressure again to verify the WG isnt stuck shut.

you can also try plugging the return port to the intake.

if you do those 2 things and everythings fine, then it pretty much has to be the way its plumbed up.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:33 PM   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phatron View Post
maybe try opening up the hallman and making sure the ball/spring isnt stuck.

try running at WG pressure again to verify the WG isnt stuck shut.

you can also try plugging the return port to the intake.

if you do those 2 things and everythings fine, then it pretty much has to be the way its plumbed up.
After experiencing this, I disassembled the Hallman to check just that. It's ok. I blew thru it with it wide open, and it seemed to work (as I tightened the adjuster to increase boost, it got harder to blow through).

I'll check out the new hose barb, and see if that changes things.

Later tonight, I'll plot a boost curve with just the wastegate pressure, and maybe you can tell me if it looks like normal. I've never seen a plot of that, so I can't comment on it. I'll also post up my map, maybe I missed something. Subaru doesn't sell just a wastegate, so if that's the problem, I'm back to waiting on sufficient funds to throw a 20G on there.

Thanks for looking into this with me, i just wish it was a "you idiot! you need to do this!" kind of thing, you know? heh, maybe it still is, we'll see.
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:50 PM   #418
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I've made a plot of wastegate boost pressure vs. rpm, and it looks hella high to me. i thought we had 13 psi wastegates. we probably do. what could be wrong, making it stick?

http://www.athphoto.com/aplogs/20110...24855_3550.csv

wastegate is obviously working, but at a much higher boost level than expected.

Last edited by xlsupreme; 01-17-2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:39 PM   #419
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What turbo/exhaust are you using? It could be bad boost creep, but from the looks of the graph it doesn't appear to be creep since it shoots to 18 so fast...
If you connected a line right from the compressor housing right to the wastegate and it went up to 18 that fast its either a bad wastegate actuator or boost creep, if its a VF series turbo in cold weather it wouldn't suprise me if it was boost creep, I've had quite a few VF series turbos creep up to 20-21 psi running straight wastegate pressure.
If you wanted to test the wastegate, take the actuator off the turbo and hook up regulated air pressure to it and see how many pounds of pressure it takes to open.
If you find it is good and you want to decrease your boost you could port the wastegate, but at that point you might as well just replace the turbo or go to an external for future upgrades.
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:48 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by 02RexWI View Post
What turbo/exhaust are you using? It could be bad boost creep, but from the looks of the graph it doesn't appear to be creep since it shoots to 18 so fast...
If you connected a line right from the compressor housing right to the wastegate and it went up to 18 that fast its either a bad wastegate actuator or boost creep, if its a VF series turbo in cold weather it wouldn't suprise me if it was boost creep, I've had quite a few VF series turbos creep up to 20-21 psi running straight wastegate pressure.
If you wanted to test the wastegate, take the actuator off the turbo and hook up regulated air pressure to it and see how many pounds of pressure it takes to open.
If you find it is good and you want to decrease your boost you could port the wastegate, but at that point you might as well just replace the turbo or go to an external for future upgrades.
vf39 turbo, with mad dad catted exhaust. had this on when tuned at Agile Automotive a few years back, and he didn't mention anything about boost creep. I'll isolate the wastegate and see what's what, but I don't think it's a creep issue. what gets me is that when they fail, i thought they usually just held less pressure, i didn't think the typical failure mode was stiction, from my reading.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:32 PM   #421
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If the diaphram has a hole in it that would cause your boost to be higher than spring pressure, but I doubt it is a hole. The wastegate actuators seem to be pretty robust.

I've personally had 2 VF39's creep on my cars. The reason the tuner didn't mention anything about creep is probably because he was targetting more boost than what the turbo crept to. Unless you are doing a conservative 15 psi tune on a car most tuners wont ever notice boost creep simply because they never target boost that low, and people only notice it when they want to lower their boost for whatever reason- (thats the way I found out my first VF39 was creeping).

You should test your wastegate actuator, it would be easy to do even on the car- simply hook up a pressure regulator directly to the actuator and see where the actuator starts to open. If it is opening at around 10-12 psi like it should and doesn't sound like its leaking then it is boost creep.
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:40 PM   #422
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Originally Posted by 02RexWI View Post
If the diaphram has a hole in it that would cause your boost to be higher than spring pressure, but I doubt it is a hole. The wastegate actuators seem to be pretty robust.

I've personally had 2 VF39's creep on my cars. The reason the tuner didn't mention anything about creep is probably because he was targetting more boost than what the turbo crept to. Unless you are doing a conservative 15 psi tune on a car most tuners wont ever notice boost creep simply because they never target boost that low, and people only notice it when they want to lower their boost for whatever reason- (thats the way I found out my first VF39 was creeping).

You should test your wastegate actuator, it would be easy to do even on the car- simply hook up a pressure regulator directly to the actuator and see where the actuator starts to open. If it is opening at around 10-12 psi like it should and doesn't sound like its leaking then it is boost creep.
True. I need to rule it out. You make a great point about why I've never noticed it before too. I only saw it because I'm trying to work some other issues out, just like you said.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:26 AM   #423
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I've confirmed that my wastegate doesn't open until 18 psi, I tested it with compressed air and a regulator. I'm still trying to get this hybrid boost control to work...
- Hook up EBCS, test boost control
- insert Tee's in lines for WG, turbo nipple, and cap them, verify nothing has changed.
- replace barb in mbc to one without bleed hole, insert into system, verify that WOT still behaves
- start to jack the wgdc up slowly making sure that mbc operates as a clamp

Ride5000, can you confirm? Do you have a better way of trouble shooting this that I'm not doing?
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Old 01-27-2011, 06:49 AM   #424
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are you asking why your WGA doesn't crack until 18psi?
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:02 AM   #425
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If your WGA doesn't open until 18 psi. it is either an aftermarket unit (and it would require a much higher WG duty cycle to regulate boost at 18 psi.) or if it appears stock then it is damaged.

When you say it doesn't open until 18 psi. do you mean there is no movement in the actuator rod until you put 18 psi to the port? If so there is either something wrong or its got a heavier spring than stock. I tested a WGA from my old VF39 before I sent it out to a guy, and it cracked (the rod started to move) at around 8 psi. ; There was significant movement at around 12 psi.

Confirm that it doesn't move until 18 psi. and if that is the case you may have a leaking diaphram or a heavier than stock spring. If the diaphram is leaking you should be able to hear air leaking past it if you put your ear up to it.
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